Kitchen Island Philosophy

[divorcingjack]

@ultramods I’ve got 8mm Dekton - a sintered porcelain surface like Neolith. Love it - never get tired of attacking it with any old screw that’s lying around and just wearing the screw down with no scratching to the surface! We needed something indestructible. 

[ultramods]

  On 02/05/2019 at 13:53, divorcingjack said:

@ultramods I’ve got 8mm Dekton - a sintered porcelain surface like Neolith. Love it - never get tired of attacking it with any old screw that’s lying around and just wearing the screw down with no scratching to the surface! We needed something indestructible. 

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We could have got a longer worktop with Corian, however it's no where near as durable and it's far thicker.

 

I just hope it's strong as they claim as the sample that we sent we arrived in one piece but then a crack appeared in it and it broke in two - I didn't even try and break or damage it!

[divorcingjack]

It is brittle, needing to be fully supported and prone to chipping at the edges, so we’re installing ours over a sheet of MDF and a 2mm steel sheet which is the exact same dimensions as the Dekton, so hopefully that should protect the vulnerable edge from chipping. 

[puntloos]

  On 02/05/2019 at 14:17, divorcingjack said:

It is brittle, needing to be fully supported and prone to chipping at the edges, so we’re installing ours over a sheet of MDF and a 2mm steel sheet which is the exact same dimensions as the Dekton, so hopefully that should protect the vulnerable edge from chipping. 

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And I thought Dekton was indestructible

(ok ok I know, most materials have sensitive angles, areas etc.. )

 

OK so 

 

- Dekton

- Corian

- Sapienstone

 

All seem nice candidates for "indestructible yet pretty"?

 

[Moira Niedzwiecka]

I liked Dekton before I found sapienstone.

Dekton is whoppingly expensive in comparison.

[ultramods]

  On 02/05/2019 at 14:21, puntloos said:

 

And I thought Dekton was indestructible

(ok ok I know, most materials have sensitive angles, areas etc.. )

 

OK so 

 

- Dekton

- Corian

- Sapienstone

 

All seem nice candidates for "indestructible yet pretty"?

 

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Corian is destructible, scratches easily and I don't think you could for example put a hot pan on it, however it can be repaired.  When I was asking for samples they were advising that we don't go for a dark colour as scratches are more visible - sounds great!

[ultramods]

  On 02/05/2019 at 14:17, divorcingjack said:

It is brittle, needing to be fully supported and prone to chipping at the edges, so we’re installing ours over a sheet of MDF and a 2mm steel sheet which is the exact same dimensions as the Dekton, so hopefully that should protect the vulnerable edge from chipping. 

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Is the worktop installer also installing the 2mm steel sheet and the MDF? How thick is the MDF and if the MDF and steel is sitting on top of the cabinets is is not visible, when the Dekton is so thin?

 

Also can you tell me the cost of the steel and MDF work?

 

So far I have only had one quote for the Neolith and they didn't mention the need for MDF or steel - I will investigate this now, thanks.

Edited May 2, 2019 by ultramods

[jack]

  On 02/05/2019 at 14:37, ultramods said:

Corian is destructible, scratches easily and I don't think you could for example put a hot pan on it, however it can be repaired.  When I was asking for samples they were advising that we don't go for a dark colour as scratches are more visible - sounds great!

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Scratches very easily and stains like a mofo (at least the white stuff we have on one surface does).

 

So much for it being the requested maintenance-free, hard-wearing option for beside the sink! 

[divorcingjack]

  On 02/05/2019 at 14:41, ultramods said:

Is the worktop installer also installing the 2mm steel sheet and the MDF? How thick is the MDF and if the MDF and steel is sitting on top of the cabinets is is not visible, when the Dekton is so thin?

 

Also can you tell me the cost of the steel and MDF work?

 

So far I have only had one quote for the Neolith and they didn't mention the need for MDF or steel - I will investigate this now, thanks.

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Soo, this gets a bit complicated. The worktop guy is not at all involved in the MDF/steel elements. The steel is my husbands idea because we’d read some stories of difficult-to-repair chips above dishwashers whilst taking stuff out, people were banging the edge, so he thought the steel would protect it pretty well. The edge of the steel will show but we have other steel elements in the house (a staircase) so we don’t mind that. It’s basically like one giant tile, so we went with the “full tiling bed” approach that you use when laying fragile natural stone tiles. The MDF is part of the bespoke detail to the island that makes the worktop look like it’s floating - we bring the MDF above the level of the units, but set back a little and the edge painted black, so it creates a shadow gap. I don’t think I have a photo of it at the minute but hopefully the worktop is being installed tomorrow or Monday so I can get pics then. It should look really cool with the ultra thin slab. 

[ultramods]

  On 02/05/2019 at 15:23, divorcingjack said:

 

Soo, this gets a bit complicated. The worktop guy is not at all involved in the MDF/steel elements. The steel is my husbands idea because we’d read some stories of difficult-to-repair chips above dishwashers whilst taking stuff out, people were banging the edge, so he thought the steel would protect it pretty well. The edge of the steel will show but we have other steel elements in the house (a staircase) so we don’t mind that. It’s basically like one giant tile, so we went with the “full tiling bed” approach that you use when laying fragile natural stone tiles. The MDF is part of the bespoke detail to the island that makes the worktop look like it’s floating - we bring the MDF above the level of the units, but set back a little and the edge painted black, so it creates a shadow gap. I don’t think I have a photo of it at the minute but hopefully the worktop is being installed tomorrow or Monday so I can get pics then. It should look really cool with the ultra thin slab. 

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Thanks, that makes sense. 

 

Some photos would be appreciated.

[divorcingjack]

  On 02/05/2019 at 15:32, ultramods said:

 

Thanks, that makes sense. 

 

Some photos would be appreciated.

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I'll get some when I go down to site after school pickup. In the meantime, here is the inspiration pic from the kitchen that we couldn't afford! We have had curved custom end panels and flush kick boards with a shadow gap made and the work surface will have that very slight radius on it as well. In fact, the well in the ceiling that houses the hidden extraction has the same curved edges. 

 

Edited May 3, 2019 by divorcingjack
add detail

[Ferdinand]

  On 02/05/2019 at 14:31, Moira Niedzwiecka said:

I liked Dekton before I found sapienstone.

Dekton is whoppingly expensive in comparison.

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So what price (ish) is sapienstone?

 

I will be after (possibly) a piece approx 1200 x 450mm for my new bathroom, to be mounted on a vanity unit. I am losing the battle between sngnle-piece integrated sinks and bowls-on-a-board.

 

Ferdinand

 

 

 

[Moira Niedzwiecka]

@FerdinandI am at work.

When home I will find quote & supplier.

It is a company in Kettering.

Edited May 3, 2019 by Moira Niedzwiecka

[joth]

  On 03/05/2019 at 15:44, Moira Niedzwiecka said:

@FerdinandI am at work.

When home I will find quote & supplier.

It is a company in Kettering.

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@Moira Niedzwiecka 

 

Also interested in this, if the company has a showroom in Kettering? We aren't so far from there and would like to see it in person.

Can't seem to find many stockists by searching. (several that seemed to have stopped dealing it though, which is a bit of a concern)

Thanks

Edited May 4, 2019 by joth

[puntloos]

Have any of you tried to do any math around how much storage surface you want in your kitchens? How many square meters is 'reasonable' to store a well-stocked kitchen..

 

- Ingredients (cans, spices?) -> could be in a pantry, but for the argument of this calc, still 'kitchen')

- Plates, cutlery, utensils

- Devices (blenders, toasters..)

- Pans, pots

etc etc.

 

I intend to do some survey of my current (rental) kitchen, but would love to hear others doing the same

[Piers]

  On 04/05/2019 at 17:46, puntloos said:

Have any of you tried to do any math around how much storage surface you want in your kitchens?

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It's something I've certainly thought of but more in terms of litres/cubic metres for storage. Hadn't considered surface area as the metric.

 

Some it will depend on how you store stuff, and whether you have lots of devices (and if they're built in or freestanding - microwave, boiling water tap etc).

 

For unencumbered work surfaces we like to have minimum of about 4 sq. metres to prep food etc.

 

The general rule of thumb for me is that our tupperware collection expands to fit all available cupboard space

[Ferdinand]

Add up the metre run of all your base units and multiply by .6 or .5 to allow for hobs and sinks etc.

Edited May 4, 2019 by Ferdinand

[Moira Niedzwiecka]

@Ferdinand  @joth

Quote I had for Sapienstone was from Rock Revelations from Brigstock, Northants.01536 373253

£1830 for 12mm Urban argento for my kitchen peninsula 3100 x 1200 with cut out for induction hob & undermount sink & tap.

This was last November. I still am nowhere near getting a kitchen.

[puntloos]

  On 04/05/2019 at 20:23, Moira Niedzwiecka said:

@Ferdinand  @joth

Quote I had for Sapienstone was from Rock Revelations from Brigstock, Northants.01536 373253

£1830 for 12mm Urban argento for my kitchen peninsula 3100 x 1200 with cut out for induction hob & undermount sink & tap.

This was last November. I still am nowhere near getting a kitchen.

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What's the reason for this? Are they being slow? I've heard tons of horror stories about suppliers of materials like this being dreadfully slow, so I can't quite tell if this is bad or not..

[puntloos]

  On 04/05/2019 at 18:43, Piers said:

 

It's something I've certainly thought of but more in terms of litres/cubic metres for storage. Hadn't considered surface area as the metric.

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Clearly some things need height, (stacks of plates, kitchen machines etc) but surface seemed to be more appropriate than volume to me..

 

  2 hours ago, Piers said:

The general rule of thumb for me is that our tupperware collection expands to fit all available cupboard space

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Ha, you're not entirely wrong although we've just assigned one cupboard for tupperware, and we're forcing ourselves to make hard choices once we have a new thing.. 

 

  On 04/05/2019 at 18:46, Ferdinand said:

Add up the metre run of all your base units and multiply by .6 or .5 to allow for hobs and sinks etc.

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Interesting. Our rental has a great amount of storage, let me do both your rule of thumb and the actual measurement and see where both end up.

[joth]

@Moira Niedzwiecka thank you!  Not a bad price for such a big worktop

 

With this info I found this blog, from another worktop installer, saying great things about Cullifords;  the sole UK distributor and leading fabricator of Sapienstone. Looks like they have a showroom -- a trip to Kingston on Thames maybe on the cards.

 

[Ferdinand]

  On 04/05/2019 at 21:23, puntloos said:

 

Interesting. Our rental has a great amount of storage, let me do both your rule of thumb and the actual measurement and see where both end up.

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Yep. Given you only need a guestimate (+/- 10-20%) as we all have different amounts of different junk in our kitchens it can only ever be comparable meaningfully with those error margins, it was just a nice round way to estimate.

 

I have a big chunk of worktop given over to a Gaggia Coffee Machine, a microwave, a TV, a Lazy Susan, and a toaster - for example.

 

Also you can always play games with hidden worktops or having a recessed worktop where a built-in pven might have gone, for example.

 

Ferdinand

 

[Ferdinand]

  On 04/05/2019 at 20:23, Moira Niedzwiecka said:

@Ferdinand  @joth

Quote I had for Sapienstone was from Rock Revelations from Brigstock, Northants.01536 373253

£1830 for 12mm Urban argento for my kitchen peninsula 3100 x 1200 with cut out for induction hob & undermount sink & tap.

This was last November. I still am nowhere near getting a kitchen.

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Is there a chance of your piece being 450mm too long lengthwise, or that your hob is 1200 x 450?? 

 

I need a 1200 x 450mm piece :-).

 

My local workshops little man in his little unit - "Offcuts will not be that big. I reckon £300-400."

Edited May 5, 2019 by Ferdinand

[Ferdinand]

My total worktop length is 89m of 600 deep, plus a 900 x 1400 island, and a 600x600 cubbyhole which used to be a built-in microwave. Plus a 600x600 Ikea moveable trolley which fills in the gap at the end, with a microwave on it.

 

Of that more or less fixed

 

1m is sink + drainer.

1m is TV and charging gubbins.

1m is range cooker.

600 is kettle, tea, teapot, cafetiere etc.

600 is Gaggia machine.

600 is bread, trays and toaster.

Island is used for storage and transient things.

F

[Oz07]

Do you mean 8.9 m or are you feeding the 5000?!