Grand Designs at Graven Hill starts tonight on Channel 4

[Ferdinand]

5 hours ago, AnonymousBosch said:

So that's where it is. I knew I was one short. Mystery solved 

 

I distinctly recall that it was donated ?

[epsilonGreedy]

2 hours ago, newhome said:

I just think they’ve been shortsighted in not considering all of the family, ie the boys when they are a bit older. Bet he didn’t grow up sharing a bedroom. I mentioned the house needing to be marketable simply for when the inevitable question of whether to move to give the boys their own rooms is raised.

 

 

I said much the same to Swmbo as soon as the end of program credits started rolling. They endured a tough prolonged build with family separation and now they can only look forward to 6 years of settled family life before the layout limits of the house become apparent. Then as they prepare to move they won't be able to realize a decent sum for the house because of the odd materials and design decisions.

 

2 hours ago, newhome said:

I didn’t think the house looked in any way finished either so most of the finishing touches are yet to come. The balcony rail looked like scaffolding so presumably temporary. Doubt it would get through building control like that anyway. 

 

 

This is where I disagree with a few posters, I liked the finished style. The minimalist look could be a Germanic/Central European influence and the mother earth roughcast finishing is a reflection of to their ethical/eco values. The Ted Moult Everest Windows/Hygena Kitchens generation wants to sanitize nature and live in mm perfect hermetically sealed isolation, in contrast the couple featured know where home decor is going. 

[epsilonGreedy]

4 hours ago, eandg said:

Thought that too. Crazy given they had the space (it's a three storey detached house so they must have). I'd actually say any self-built family homes should have four (or three with flexible space to use as a fourth) to allow for grandparents/cousins/pals to stay over.

 

 

Household sizes are in longterm decline and coupled with the UK's demographic wealth bulge presently (60's and 70's), this all points to 3 beds being the marketable sweet spot in home sales. Watch a few episodes of Escape To The Country and this soon becomes apparent.

[eandg]

On 20/04/2019 at 13:34, epsilonGreedy said:

 

Household sizes are in longterm decline and coupled with the UK's demographic wealth bulge presently (60's and 70's), this all points to 3 beds being the marketable sweet spot in home sales. Watch a few episodes of Escape To The Country and this soon becomes apparent.

Indeed but my comments have nothing to do with marketability, and far more to do with the practicalities of family living. 

 

As it goes few accessible two and three bedrooms are developed by volume housebuilders principally because there's so little demand for it. Unfortunately older Britons only tend to move at the point of crisis. Which is why every new build estate is full of boxes which squeeze 4 bedrooms in and don't provide particularly good living spaces for their occupants (and will be redundant in two generations time). That said, if I was self building with an eye on resale and it worked for me then I'd consider a 3 bed bungalow as the undersupply means they come in at a huge premium to the market, in my area at least. 

Edited April 22, 2019 by eandg

[Vijay]

It's easy with hindsight to say he should have paid someone to do the work, but I bet he never thought for one second things would take as long as they did. I'm definitely guilty of that and I'm sure I'm not the only one lol

[Jeremy Harris]

32 minutes ago, Vijay said:

It's easy with hindsight to say he should have paid someone to do the work, but I bet he never thought for one second things would take as long as they did. I'm definitely guilty of that and I'm sure I'm not the only one lol

 

I'm guilty of it too.  Some of the work I did took four or five times longer than paying someone would have done, and that cost us in all the hidden costs of the delay, like running two houses for longer, loads more 32 mile round trip commutes, etc.  I'd have been better to have borrowed some money and paid someone to do a lot of the work, as it would have been cheaper, but at the time it was the last thing I thought of.

[newhome]

13 minutes ago, JSHarris said:

but at the time it was the last thing I thought of.

 

I think people get so wrapped up in it, it’s difficult to see objectively. Done now though and time to be proud of the achievement. 

[Visti]

Paul is a great guy and very into his house build, particularly the eco credentials. He way very persuasive in his use of clay as a render, even though it'd have been far easier to get a traditional plasterer in. He was the first one Laura and I met in fact, us wandering onto the street when it was strictly a private area and still being warm and welcoming despite our ignorance.

 

I think his materials first philosophy isn't as far removed as mine or the rest of you, it is just that he values the natural sources and processes above performance which we tend to favour instead. I am not going to fault him after having seen him spend three months hand making and filling in his walls with hempcrete. That is a dedication to a cause irrespective on philosophy.

 

[Ferdinand]

18 hours ago, epsilonGreedy said:

this all points to 3 beds being the marketable sweet spot in home sales.

 

I would say 3 DOUBLES.

 

In smallish houses (say trad semi) 3 double bedroom houses are like hens' teeth. Most are 2 doubles + a single.

 

I rent one to a FOF (friend of family) couple, and it took them 2 years to find a suitable local property  for me to buy.

 

On the Gravenhill Plot 6 one, it seemed to me that one of the doubles may be splittable in 2 for when the boys reach that mutual-hatred age ?.

 

18 hours ago, epsilonGreedy said:

Household sizes are in longterm decline and coupled with the UK's demographic wealth bulge presently (60's and 70's)

 

This is a critical insight , and it accounts for perhaps 2-3 million extra households if you compare the numbers over a generation.

 

The kind of measure that would help prevent that would be to facilitate 2-3 person shared households - the opposite of what is in place now where they are denigrated ("HMOs"), introduce tax breaks for eg Civil Partnerships / Marriages, and extend Civil Partnerships to pairs of platonics or relatives.

 

One good example of this was actually when Oxford was one of the first Councils to go overboard with regulation of small HMOs a decade ago. 

 

Ferdinand

 

Edited April 21, 2019 by Ferdinand

[Pete]

On 20/04/2019 at 17:36, JSHarris said:

 

I'm guilty of it too.  Some of the work I did took four or five times longer than paying someone would have done, and that cost us in all the hidden costs of the delay, like running two houses for longer, loads more 32 mile round trip commutes, etc.  I'd have been better to have borrowed some money and paid someone to do a lot of the work, as it would have been cheaper, but at the time it was the last thing I thought of.

Yes but would the work have been done to the same standard that you did? At the moment most people I have to get in to do work has left me feeling like I wish I had done it myself.

[ProDave]

So tonight.  The "plywood box" home.  I see one major flaw, it takes about 6 weeks to get a roof on,  And the plywood is the finished internal surface.  So doesn't that mean you really need 6 weeks without rain?

 

And the outside, finished with what looks like pallets painted black, vertical boards with huge gaps between them. What stops water and UV getting in between the gaps? Hope the membrane is UV resistant for a long time. And it will be spider and wasp heaven behind that lot?

 

The other house was pretty normal and even appeared to have a BR compliant staircase.

[newhome]

8 minutes ago, ProDave said:

The other house was pretty normal and even appeared to have a BR compliant staircase.

 

Given that both houses cost about the same to build I couldn’t really equate that given that the plywood box house had so much free labour. It’s hard to see where the main money is spent on these projects without a cost breakdown. 

 

[Jeremy Harris]

I liked the idea of the plywood box build.  This is the second one of those that's been on GD, but this one seemed to go together more easily.  The external cladding was not to my taste, but that's just personal preference.  The big advantage of the box design was that no lifting gear was needed and assembly seemed to be a relatively unskilled job, the snag being that the extended build time left it vulnerable to the weather.  The latter might have been able to be tackled with a roofed scaffold, of the type that seems common around here when working on thatched houses.

 

Got to admire that young couple doing that for their first home, although I was left wondering if their relationship had really survived the build or not.

[scottishjohn]

My first thought was why are the boxs so small?

a lot of labour in making each box ,so why not make larger ones , and only a membrane on outside to hold the insulation in place  before the "pallet  " cladding which still has holes so the membrane could be damaged over time if it moves and rubs on the cladding 

and the amount of time to make + paint all those exterior  "pallets" for the cladding 

and then the cost of the scaffolding tent  for months .

 don,t think that is the next trend in house building.

and same cost as the 3/4 bed one next to it --

 

 

 

[Jeremy Harris]

The last CNC cut plywood box design used much larger boxes, which went together more quickly.  The down side was that they needed more effort to assemble and lift into place.  My guess is that they may have deliberately made the boxes smaller in this build, to allow single handed assembly and lifting into place.  IIRC, the last GD to use this technique was built by Facit Homes.

 

There were several detail choices I'd question, but I can't see any reason why the basic construction method couldn't be used for pretty much any style of house.  I liked the plywood box floor cassettes, too, I'd guess that they made for a very rigid floor.  All I'd change in that design would be to have the CNC machine cut preformed holes in the webs to allow services to run through them more easily; should be easy enough to do.

[Ferdinand]

30 minutes ago, scottishjohn said:

and then the cost of the scaffolding tent  for months .

 

Perhaps they read BH and bought/sold the scaffolding.

 

8 minutes ago, JSHarris said:

There were several detail choices I'd question, but I can't see any reason why the basic construction method couldn't be used for pretty much any style of house.

 

That would rather effectively put a bomb under any notion of modern Arts & Crafts ... integrity of practise right down to the basic materials.

 

Quote

 

"That is a very nice take on the Mies Van der Rohe pavilion."

 

"Er .. it's made of plywood boxes."

 

"And that one next door looks very Frank Lloyd-Wright."

 

"Can't be, Mate. It's 5 years old and has not been rebuilt yet. And the Client has not gone bankrupt."

 

 

Ferdinand

(who once again forgot that it was Thursday)

Edited April 26, 2019 by Ferdinand

[newhome]

37 minutes ago, JSHarris said:

Got to admire that young couple doing that for their first home, although I was left wondering if their relationship had really survived the build or not.

 

They’re apparently not together now and he lives in London according to his Twitter feed. He now works for Knight Frank. 

 

1 minute ago, JSHarris said:

 

There were several detail choices I'd question, but I can't see any reason why the basic construction method couldn't be used for pretty much any style of house. 

 

Why was it so expensive though? £2233 per square metre if you believe this 

 

https://www.granddesignsmagazine.com/grand-designs-houses/438-grand-designs-tv-house-britain-first-u-build-house

 

And the current plot prices seem way in excess of what is reasonable given how much new houses are selling for there. 

https://www.rightmove.co.uk/new-homes-for-sale/property-61408887.html

https://www.rightmove.co.uk/new-homes-for-sale/property-69975679.html

 

 

[scottishjohn]

1 hour ago, JSHarris said:

I liked the plywood box floor cassettes, too, I'd guess that they made for a very rigid floor.  All I'd change in that design would be to have the CNC machine cut preformed holes in the webs to allow services to run through them more easily; should be easy enough to do.

that bit was good -- but walls seemed like a hard way to do it ,even 8x4 boxs  would be manageable and less cnc cutting costs and you are up to first floor in  one piece

[scottishjohn]

1 hour ago, newhome said:

Why was it so expensive though? £2233 per square metre if you believe this 

plywood is more expensive than OSB  and fixings would  be a considerable expense  28000screws!

and all that manual countersinking for the screws!-

less screws and some adhesive ?

all you can say is you could build the house over a long period in a shed --then go and errect it ,but you could do same with TF frames.

really cannot see any advantage over other methods even for a self build --as you will be paying a lot to get all the cnc bits made .

and bear in mind --no interior finish  1960,s electrical installation and  exposed copper pipes to burn the kids --not even sure that should pass BC

its the sort of brilliant  idea you have in a pub  -but then sober up and forget it 

no suprise they split --seems she did all the saving for years and he came across as a  typical salesperson ,had loads of car sales men like that over the years 

 

 

but fair play they did do it ,

 

which more than i have done so far .

i don't count the industrial buildings I have done and fitted out from bare shell  or the extensions on houses 

 but it will happen  once I get through plot problems 

 

Edited April 26, 2019 by scottishjohn

[ultramods]

At first I thought the box idea was neat, however it would be interesting to know the cost of the system in terms of material and labour compared to other systems as it did appear to be very labour intensive.

 

When I was researching the different build systems I came across beattie passive, if I was building the house myself I think this would be simpler/faster to use compared to the boxes.

 

The thing that put my off Beattie Passive was the cost for them to design the house (to be built with their system). This was 2-3 years ago now, so their prices may have changed.

[newhome]

19 minutes ago, ultramods said:

When I was researching the different build systems I came across beattie passive, if I was building the house myself I think this would be simpler/faster to use compared to the boxes.

 

Looks like there are a few of those at Graven Hill

 

http://www.beattiepassive.com/graven-hill.php

 

[lizzie]

My first choice of frame provider was Beattie Passive...for reasons that we all know I was steered away from them.  I still like their product and if I were doing it again I would look at them again.

[Ferdinand]

GD did one of the plywood box houses in 2012 for Celia and Diana.

 

https://vimeo.com/53932758

Edited April 26, 2019 by Ferdinand

[ultramods]

I also saw someone posted on the forum last week about Barnhaus, which looked quite interesting

 

http://www.pentan.co.uk/project/barnhaus/

 

 

[ProDave]

2 hours ago, newhome said:

And the current plot prices seem way in excess of what is reasonable given how much new houses are selling for there. 

https://www.rightmove.co.uk/new-homes-for-sale/property-61408887.html

https://www.rightmove.co.uk/new-homes-for-sale/property-69975679.html

 

 

That confirms my view that the plot prices are now too high, you could not buy a plot and build one of those 2 for what they are on sale for now.

 

It is a great shame as GD keep telling the mass viewers how cheap the plots were and how good value the finished house is.  There will be a lot of disappointed people when they find out the current asking prices for the plots now.