Russell griffiths Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 Evening all, need to start the ball rolling on how we run this house we are building so going to be a big load of questions, starting with DO WE FIT SOLAR PANELS. being that im a complete Luddite and prefer messing with concrete and wood I don’t really understand all this fancy wizardry so I’ve enlisted the help of the wife in sorting the technology side of the house out. Im led to believe from the misses that any grants or payback schemes are all finishing, so tell me should we fit solar or not. Let the great debate begin. Cheers the Griffiths mob. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProDave Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 I have just fitted mine. For me they had to be cheap to install to be worth it. With a LOT of patience and seeking out of bargains, I managed to DIY install a 4KW system for £1500 described here It might be hard, or take more patience to replicate another system for that price. At that price point and assuming I can self use £250 worth of electricity each year, then it will have a payback time of 6 years. So much more to install and it becomes questionable. Later on I want to add battery storage, but the price of those still needs to fall further. That should then enable 100% self usage so making it more viable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dreadnaught Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 (edited) As I recall your (lovely) site, @Russell griffiths, you have little or no shading from any trees to your roof? Plus, given the area of your land, might you even consider a ground array some distance from the house? My vote is: yes PV. Edited February 28, 2019 by Dreadnaught Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToughButterCup Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 Ours just done. Not interested in FIT: main focus is self-consumption. Couple of years from now, battery power too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wozza Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 (edited) We had ours fitted in 2011 - they cost a lot - but they have paid for themselves and we now earn clear profit (from the FiT payments) - We had a 4KW system fitted and receive around £2100 a year in payments (our FiT is around 54p a KW - now you only get around 4p We also manage how we use the free generated electric - we tend to put the washing machine, dishwasher etc on timer so they run whilst we are at work - using free electric that would otherwise just be fed back into the grid. I believe that you have until the 31st March to sign up for FiT payments as they are ending the scheme. Edited February 28, 2019 by wozza Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russell griffiths Posted March 1, 2019 Author Share Posted March 1, 2019 So let’s say no fit at all, every penny it costs me is coming out of my pocket by the time my house is finished I won’t be working anymore, and the wife is going to only go to the office once a week and spend the rest of the time working from home. So, I can run the dish washer during the day and the washing machine, computer will be on most of the time how do we calculate how much electricity we will use and how much we can generate i have an immense area of south facing roof with no overshadowing, so that would be my preferred location. Come on help this thicko out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russell griffiths Posted March 1, 2019 Author Share Posted March 1, 2019 Now thinking completely from a dodgy perspective who knows anything about a commercial install. We have two holiday letts is there a fit for commercial instead of residential can i I install it to feed the holiday letts, but er don’t if you know what I mean. Nod nod wink wink. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willbish Posted March 1, 2019 Share Posted March 1, 2019 Hi Russ, With 4.0kWp at your location, due south, 20° roof (your roof is one shallow pitch isnt it?) The PVGIS page says you should generate 3840kWh per year A new but cheap 4.0kWp system should cost you <£2k. DIY install. Assuming your grid electricity is 14p per kWh (today's prices, will surely be more next year) So when you have consumed 14,286kWh of PV generated electricity it will have paid for itself. (200000/14) If you consume 100% of the 3840kWh generated that is 3.7 years payback (14286/3840) Realistically you may only consume 70% so 5.3 years payback (14286/3840*0.7) 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeremy Harris Posted March 1, 2019 Share Posted March 1, 2019 Our PV has been running for a while now, and having switched to E7 I'm finding that far and away the greatest proportion of our purchased electricity is now at the cheap rate (around 8.5p/kWh). With the good weather we've been having lately the house has been "energy neutral" (i.e. not using any grid power) by around 09:00 each morning, and has tended to stay like that until around 16:00. Every day that "no cost" window is getting longer, and reducing the time when we are using full price electricity. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ballynoes Posted March 5, 2019 Share Posted March 5, 2019 This is all very confusing, I was doing a bit digging yesterday, and the energy saving trust website came up with a installation cost of just over £6000 for a 4Kw system, fitted. (I'm not interested in a DIY fit at present) They estimate I would save was just shy of £150 per year, so doing basic maths it would take me 40 to get my money back... I won't be on this planet in 40 years time... Since there are no more feed in tariffs, I really don't see the point..... or am I missing something ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EverHopefull Posted March 5, 2019 Share Posted March 5, 2019 I have a 4kw system on my current house and it has paid for itself in around 6 years. (outlay recoup via FIT & usage assumed 50%) The new place, although only at sketch stage will have PV even though FIT is ending for the following reasons. It will contribute to the usage needs of the ASHP (heating & water) during the day. I will fit a power diverter (iBoost or similar) to add to the hot water where possible. At some point in the future it will be paid off and I will feel as good about it as I do with this house. If the budget didn't stretch to the cost then I probably would not fit them. I watch with interest what will happen with the gov schemes that "may" replace FIT at some stage to encourage take up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProDave Posted March 5, 2019 Share Posted March 5, 2019 You should be able to get the self usage up to more than £150. I am estimating £250 self usage, I will report back in a year. The 2 key things are use big appliances in the daytime if you can, with a timer if you have to be out (for work) and dump excess power to water heating There is mention of a replacement payment scheme for export but nobody knows the details. If it is only payment for export, I don't expect to be exporting much so it may well not even be worth the paperwork. But you are right, at £6000 it is not worth it. You have to get it cheaper. That is still paying "MCS prices". @Stones just fitted his own small system and paid an electrician 2 hours work to connect it all up. Add say a days work or even lets be generous, 2 days to mount the panels you should not be paying more than about £500 labour. you can buy 2KW kits now for about £2000, so £3000 is more like what an installed price should be., At £250 self usage that gives 12 years payback, still twice what I am expecting. We need to get away from the rip off MCS pricing structure before non FIT solar PV will be viable for more than a handful of people like me willing to search for a bargain and DIY. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Neil Posted March 5, 2019 Share Posted March 5, 2019 19 minutes ago, Ballynoes said: This is all very confusing, I was doing a bit digging yesterday, and the energy saving trust website came up with a installation cost of just over £6000 for a 4Kw system, fitted. (I'm not interested in a DIY fit at present) They estimate I would save was just shy of £150 per year, so doing basic maths it would take me 40 to get my money back... I won't be on this planet in 40 years time... Since there are no more feed in tariffs, I really don't see the point..... or am I missing something ? I'm sure you had considered this anyway, but as it's a new build you could justifiably offset the panel cost against the roofing material cost, as others have suggested elsewhere in the past I believe. NOw I don't know what your roofing material is planned to be, but there's a cost to be offset either way. 4kwp is something like 15 panels i would think depending on the maximum power, and panels are often around the 1X1.6m size so circa 22.5m2 roof plus flashings etc. I don't know what rate your roofer will lay whatever the rest of the covering is, but I don't imagine it's as fast as a competent installer doing the PV panels, so there's a justifiable cost saving there as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Neil Posted March 5, 2019 Share Posted March 5, 2019 1 minute ago, ProDave said: We need to get away from the rip off MCS pricing structure before non FIT solar PV will be viable for more than a handful of people like me willing to search for a bargain and DIY. It certainly seemed to me whilst looking around that installed prices remain stunningly high. Ever since I think it was @PeterStarckturned me on to Midsummerwholesale i've been obsesssed with looking for value panels, to understand the case for paying premium towards the likes of sunpower, LG etc. So far, all black mono Perlight at £80.50+vat for 285 watt is the best value per £ I can find and even when you take efficiency into consideration it becomes harder to justify those higher premium prices. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProDave Posted March 5, 2019 Share Posted March 5, 2019 3 minutes ago, Big Neil said: So far, all black mono Perlight at £80.50+vat for 285 watt is the best value per £ I can find and even when you take efficiency into consideration it becomes harder to justify those higher premium prices. That's £1352 for the panels, there is a guy on ebay selling the same Tranergy inverter I have, new for £300 so £1650 for a 4Kw system. By the time you have added mounting rails, switches and hardware you should still be under £2K Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Neil Posted March 5, 2019 Share Posted March 5, 2019 2 minutes ago, ProDave said: That's £1352 for the panels, there is a guy on ebay selling the same Tranergy inverter I have, new for £300 so £1650 for a 4Kw system. By the time you have added mounting rails, switches and hardware you should still be under £2K oooo - would you throw the link up when you have a chance later please. Same Panels?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willbish Posted March 5, 2019 Share Posted March 5, 2019 (edited) 53 minutes ago, Big Neil said: I'm sure you had considered this anyway, but as it's a new build you could justifiably offset the panel cost against the roofing material cost, as others have suggested elsewhere in the past I believe. NOw I don't know what your roofing material is planned to be, but there's a cost to be offset either way. 4kwp is something like 15 panels i would think depending on the maximum power, and panels are often around the 1X1.6m size so circa 22.5m2 roof plus flashings etc Im not sure there is much financial saving to be made by substituting roof materials for PV panels. Consider a GSE in-roof mounts and flashings for 16 panels (4.0kWp) is £1950 Where as an on roof system for same size would be £500 So an extra cost of £1500 for 24m2 Is the roof covering more or less than £62.5/m2? Not sure my maths is correct on this one though! Edited March 5, 2019 by willbish Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Neil Posted March 5, 2019 Share Posted March 5, 2019 @willbishI probably wasn't too clear but what i effectively meant was look at what the roofing inc materials and labour would cost for that same area, deduct that from the total solar cost inc installation (as you'd have to cover your roof with something), that then being the cost one must recoup. Include as @ProDave mentions the cost of 6k being pretty high in that case, and use say 4k as a benchmark and it makes the question easier to answer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willbish Posted March 5, 2019 Share Posted March 5, 2019 How much is roof covering materials and labour per m2? Genuine question as Ive only really got ball park figures. In-roof solar does look a great better, so worth a premium IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterW Posted March 5, 2019 Share Posted March 5, 2019 @willbish where did you get your pricing as that is pretty steep..? The IFRS system is about £60 a panel from memory based on a 12 panel system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willbish Posted March 5, 2019 Share Posted March 5, 2019 Ebay price for the GSE mounts @PeterW Whats the IFRS system? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterW Posted March 5, 2019 Share Posted March 5, 2019 IFRS and GSE are similar systems. That’s retail list plus about 10% on eBay ... Try Wagner for a price for all the bits - they will design it too... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Neil Posted March 5, 2019 Share Posted March 5, 2019 @willbish - see link for https://en.irfts.com/easy-roof-evolution/ @PeterW - do you mean www.wagner-renewables.com - these chaps? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterW Posted March 5, 2019 Share Posted March 5, 2019 @Big Neil right on both counts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ballynoes Posted March 5, 2019 Share Posted March 5, 2019 (edited) From my perspective I am slightly different in that I am not really self building, I plan to hand the drawings to my main contractor and have it all done for me. The PV panels are just an option if I think they will be cost effective, so buying from eBay, whilst a good idea, I will have to have mine installed by a certified installer etc, if I intend to pick up any type of FIT or Smart Export Guarantee, as it looks like it will be called. I would therefore need to get my investment back in say 10-15 years, but all the figures I have so far are considerably longer than this, so it's still a decision to be made. While I am keen to use renewable energy, and save the planet so to speak, a 30-40 year return on my investment is not that attractive at this stage Edited March 5, 2019 by Ballynoes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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