Triassic Posted April 11, 2019 Share Posted April 11, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, Barney12 said: As in publicly admitting that their products don't work as advertised? Or a public listing on the stock exchange? I wouldn't think either are likely! As in floated on the stock exchange. They have a new Chairman with Chinese business connections and experience of taking businesses public. https://www.insider.co.uk/appointments/sunamp-appoints-new-chairman-14273551 Edited April 11, 2019 by Triassic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeremy Harris Posted April 14, 2019 Share Posted April 14, 2019 Cold showers again this morning. It now seems our Sunamp is dead, as although the contactor was on, the heating element isn't heating up. We are not happy bunnies right now, especially as this means cold showers until such time as the thing gets fixed. I've checked and the wiring to the heating element appears to be open circuit, which doesn't bode well for a rapid fix to me. I did think it had charged up quickly in the sun yesterday morning, too, as we were exporting by around 09:30, whereas I'd have expected the Sunamp to still be charging. I should have investigated further then, although I'm not sure what, if anything, I could have done about it. Right now I'm beginning to wish I'd never changed from the Sunamp PV. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triassic Posted April 14, 2019 Share Posted April 14, 2019 Oh, sorry to hear that! This is going to be interesting. If I were Sunamp i’d beloading the van right now with a replacement and calling in my senior technician to pack a suitcase and hit the road to Wiltshire ASAP. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeremy Harris Posted April 14, 2019 Share Posted April 14, 2019 I've been looking through the various versions of the manuals I have (three different ones now) and there is a blurry photo with a label on it showing an "overheat thermostat". There's no mention of this at all anywhere else in the manual that I can see, but (clutching at straws here) I'm wondering if it may be a resettable over-heat trip? The photo is dreadful, and doesn't actually show the thing at all, just a blurry aperture in the side of the unit. Unfortunately that side of the unit is hard up against a step in the floor, on which our softener is mounted, so to get at it I'll need to turn off the water, drain down and disconnect the Sunamp and move it to gain access (not easy, it weighs over 150kg). Has anyone else here had a problem like this, or know if there is an overheat trip that can be reset? It would be great to know if this is the case, as it's going to be a PITA to just gain access to this area to have a look. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russdl Posted April 14, 2019 Share Posted April 14, 2019 What a PITA! I bet you do wish you'd kept the Sunamp PV. 9 minutes ago, JSHarris said: drain down and disconnect the Sunamp and move it to gain access (not easy, it weighs over 150kg) I'm just down the road Jeremy let me know if you want a hand with moving the Sunamp. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottishjohn Posted April 14, 2019 Share Posted April 14, 2019 6 minutes ago, JSHarris said: I've been looking through the various versions of the manuals I have (three different ones now) and there is a blurry photo with a label on it showing an "overheat thermostat". There's no mention of this at all anywhere else in the manual that I can see, but (clutching at straws here) I'm wondering if it may be a resettable over-heat trip? The photo is dreadful, and doesn't actually show the thing at all, just a blurry aperture in the side of the unit. Unfortunately that side of the unit is hard up against a step in the floor, on which our softener is mounted, so to get at it I'll need to turn off the water, drain down and disconnect the Sunamp and move it to gain access (not easy, it weighs over 150kg). Has anyone else here had a problem like this, or know if there is an overheat trip that can be reset? It would be great to know if this is the case, as it's going to be a PITA to just gain access to this area to have a look. If the trip is on that side ,then they should have mentioned that it needs "x" amount of space around the unit when deciding on install location for getting to it in instructions . or better still have all bits you need to get at on one side of unit . I feel for you --just like stupid things they do on cars . EG range rover diesel --you have to remove body work to fit a new turbo on the v8. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triassic Posted April 14, 2019 Share Posted April 14, 2019 (edited) Text from the current manual. 5.1 suggests it’s an “overheat thermostat”. ”All models of UniQ heat batteries are fitted with 3 temperature sensors as shown in figure 5.1. The UniQ ‘e’ models are also fitted with electric heating element as shown in figure 5.1.” https://www.sunamp.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/10/UniQ-manual-20180719-V2.2.pdf Edited April 14, 2019 by Triassic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeremy Harris Posted April 14, 2019 Share Posted April 14, 2019 Just now, scottishjohn said: If the trip is on that side ,then they should have mentioned that it needs "x" amount of space around the unit when deciding on install location for getting to it in instructions . or better still have all bits you need to get at on one side of unit . I feel for you --just like stupid things they do on cars . EG range rover diesel --you have to remove body work to fit a new turbo on the v8. I agree, but there's nothing in the manual apart from this photo with the (only) mention of there being an overheat thermostat (this image is as clear here as it is in the manual): I've just found this mention of the overheat thermostat from @Nickfromwales, which supports the view that there maybe a resettable overheat trip (rather than an overheat thermostat, which would automatically reset) in the base of the unit: On 27/10/2018 at 23:18, Nickfromwales said: The UniQ immersion also has an overheat stat, so terminal OH ( failure of the electronics to control the heat input for any reason ) would cause that to trip and isolate the immersion for safety. The next challenge is to gain access to that area, then try and grope around in it to see if I can find anything that feels like a trip. This is going to be a complete PITA to do, though, just because there's no mention at all in the manual of needing to gain access to this area, let alone any mention of what's behind the small cover on that side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeremy Harris Posted April 14, 2019 Share Posted April 14, 2019 6 minutes ago, Triassic said: Text from the current manual. ”All models of UniQ heat batteries are fitted with 3 temperature sensors as shown in figure 5.1. The UniQ ‘e’ models are also fitted with electric heating element as shown in figure 5.1.” Yes, that's right, and the image above is the left most one in Fig. 5.1, which mentions an overheat thermostat. The three sensors are fitted into a tube in the top of the unit, and are easy to access, but it looks like the overheat trip may be somewhere in the base of the thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottishjohn Posted April 14, 2019 Share Posted April 14, 2019 2 minutes ago, JSHarris said: Yes, that's right, and the image above is the left most one in Fig. 5.1, which mentions an overheat thermostat. The three sensors are fitted into a tube in the top of the unit, and are easy to access, but it looks like the overheat trip may be somewhere in the base of the thing. would not be first time i have seen these sort of trips hidden --so user don,t know where they are --so they cannot just keep resettting and they have to get it sorted Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeremy Harris Posted April 14, 2019 Share Posted April 14, 2019 Right, I may be gone sometime, as I'm going to try and gain access to that area by disconnecting and moving the water softener (easier job than disconnecting and moving the Sunamp). I'm hoping I can get just enough room to get my hand in and feel for a trip somewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferdinand Posted April 14, 2019 Share Posted April 14, 2019 (edited) 6 minutes ago, JSHarris said: Right, I may be gone sometime, as I'm going to try and gain access to that area by disconnecting and moving the water softener (easier job than disconnecting and moving the Sunamp). I'm hoping I can get just enough room to get my hand in and feel for a trip somewhere. Do you have a drain umbilical camera that might help? I picked one up from Aldi a bit ago that plugs into my phone. Just thinking. Edited April 14, 2019 by Ferdinand Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onoff Posted April 14, 2019 Share Posted April 14, 2019 A Sunamp in the clearance section? http://www.bublshop.co.uk/mobile/sunamp-3kw/p2047 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeremy Harris Posted April 14, 2019 Share Posted April 14, 2019 1 hour ago, Ferdinand said: Do you have a drain umbilical camera that might help? I picked one up from Aldi a bit ago that plugs into my phone. Just thinking. Great minds think alike... I have managed to get at one of the cover Allen head screws and undo it, so that I could just pivot the cover up. I have a USB endoscope that plugs into my tablet, so used that to find the trip, and found that it doesn't seem to have operated (I can't quite get my hand in there, but it looks like the button is down). The contactor in the controller is clonking as normal, but having just checked it I've found that, under load, it's open circuit, so it looks like the contactor has failed. Luckily I have some spare 32 A DP contactors, that are a bit larger, but are also DIN rail mounting so should fit into the controller box (they are the ones I've used for my electric vehicle charge points; I keep spares just in case). Just off to change the contactor and see if this fixes things. 1 hour ago, Onoff said: A Sunamp in the clearance section? http://www.bublshop.co.uk/mobile/sunamp-3kw/p2047 I'd be tempted, as that looks like an old Sunamp PV to me, but if so then it's really about 4.5 kWh, with a 3 kW heating element. At £700 it's not a bad buy if it's new, as they retailed at around £1600 IIRC. If I was given two of those instead of the Sunamp Uniq we have I'd take them, no question, as my experience of the Sunamp PV was that it was very reliable once the initial bugs were ironed out (our Sunamp PV was accepted as a pre-production unit that may have a few initial issues that might need fixing, anyway). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onoff Posted April 14, 2019 Share Posted April 14, 2019 It's nothing here that can be temporarily bridged to see if it is the overheat stat? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProDave Posted April 14, 2019 Share Posted April 14, 2019 Lets hope the new contactor fixes it. It seems odd for the contacts to have burned out so soon, it's not as it it is switching a demanding load and under load conditions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onoff Posted April 14, 2019 Share Posted April 14, 2019 6 minutes ago, JSHarris said: I'd be tempted, as that looks like an old Sunamp PV to me, but id so then it's really about 4.5 kWh, with a 3 kW heating element. At £700 it's not a bad buy if it's new, as they retailed at around £1600 IIRC. If I was given two of those instead of the Sunamp Uniq we have I'd take them, no question, as my experience of the Sunamp PV was that it was very reliable once the initial bugs were ironed out (our Sunamp PV was accepted as a pre-production unit that may have a few initial issues that might need fixing, anyway). Are these the ones that like a water softener feeding them or they scale up? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottishjohn Posted April 14, 2019 Share Posted April 14, 2019 Just now, ProDave said: Lets hope the new contactor fixes it. It seems odd for the contacts to have burned out so soon, it's not as it it is switching a demanding load and under load conditions. that will be the cheap and nasty chinese contactor they use .LOL. the fact JS says his a bit bigger says it all--bean counters again I have similar contactors in vehicle ramps and never had one go in 30 years - Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onoff Posted April 14, 2019 Share Posted April 14, 2019 3 minutes ago, scottishjohn said: that will be the cheap and nasty chinese contactor they use .LOL. the fact JS says his a bit bigger says it all--bean counters again I have similar contactors in vehicle ramps and never had one go in 30 years - Italian lift we've just converted to 230V. Impressed with the components but awful wiring, not a ferrule in sight! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottishjohn Posted April 14, 2019 Share Posted April 14, 2019 1 minute ago, Onoff said: Italian lift we've just converted to 230V. Impressed with the components but awful wiring, not a ferrule in sight! Italians never could make good wiring or chrome ask anybody who's had an itialian motor bike or car but notice the contactor is german !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onoff Posted April 14, 2019 Share Posted April 14, 2019 (edited) 5 minutes ago, scottishjohn said: Italians never could make good wiring or chrome ask anybody who's had an itialian motor bike or car but notice the contactor is german !! Swiss actually. I know that's splitting Herrs... Edited April 14, 2019 by Onoff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeremy Harris Posted April 14, 2019 Share Posted April 14, 2019 Just pulled the contactor out. It's a Finder 22.22.8.230.4000 and it's definitely buggered (this is the thing: https://uk.farnell.com/finder/22-22-8-230-4000/relay-dpst-no-250vac-20a/dp/1169295). Looks like it's been overheating slightly on the line in terminal, although all the screws were tight. The closest I've got to this is a spare 20 A, DP, ABB contactor, rather than the 32 A ones I use in the car charge point. ABB stuff tends to be a bit better than Finder stuff, IMHO, so having checked that the spec looks similar I'm off to fit the new one and see if that fixes things. (Note to self: Don't assume that zero amps on a clamp meter in the supply to the heater, with power on and a contactor apparently closed, means that the heating element is open circuit in future...) PS: There are NO ferrules on any of the wiring that Sunamp have done. I think that this may be a contributory factor, as they've used fine stranded equipment wire poked straight in to terminal, pretty crappy workmanship in my view (I always use insulated ferrules when terminating stranded wire, have done for years, as I've seen too many failed connections at screw terminals in the past) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottishjohn Posted April 14, 2019 Share Posted April 14, 2019 Just now, Onoff said: Swiss actually. close enough --not Italian anyway Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottishjohn Posted April 14, 2019 Share Posted April 14, 2019 1 minute ago, JSHarris said: Just pulled the contactor out. It's a Finder 22.22.8.230.4000 and it's definitely buggered (this is the thing: https://uk.farnell.com/finder/22-22-8-230-4000/relay-dpst-no-250vac-20a/dp/1169295). Looks like it's been overheating slightly on the line out terminal, although all the screws were tight. The closest I've got to this is a spare 20 A, DP, ABB contactor, rather than the 32 A ones I use in the car charge point. ABB stuff tends to be a bit better than Finder stuff, IMHO, so having checked that the spec looks similar I'm off to fit the new one and see if that fixes things. (Note to self: Don't assume that zero amps on a clamp meter in the supply to the heater, with poser on and a contactor apparently closed. means that the heating elementis open circuit in future...) PS: There are NO ferrules on any of the wiring that Sunamp have done. I think that this may be a contributory factor, as they've used fine stranded equipment wire poked straight in to terminal, pretty crappy workmanship in my view (I always use insulated ferrules when terminating stranded wire, have done for years, as I've seen too many failed connections at screw terminals in the past) one might wonder why they are not using solid single strand wiring in that sort of installation -should not be any vibration to worry about and could be bent to shape and could be clamped . we know the answer --its probably cheaper cos you can ,If i remember correctly, use thinner multi stranded wire for same current load,as current passes along the surface of wire Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottishjohn Posted April 14, 2019 Share Posted April 14, 2019 11 minutes ago, scottishjohn said: Note to self: Don't assume that zero amps on a clamp meter in the supply to the heater, with power on and a contactor apparently closed, means that the heating element is open circuit in future...) welcome to my world its always like that on cars --you need to disconnect totaly what you trying to test cos so many other connections you can get a reading that is not coming form what you think it is cos there are so many other connections somewhere you can,t see and splices on wiring s you can,t see or find its just you don't, get dead if you touch wrong thing on car - Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now