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Framin' ridiculous innit?


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Studding, framing, call it what you will has a lovely little trap in it for the unwary doesn't it?

Consider the average recently retired  so-called academic listening to the chit chat of chippies and the BH Commentatriat (very nice people)

 

The trap is called ' ... centers ...' 

 

In any run of vertical timbers set on the bottom plate (timber) of a framed wall, it is traditional to say that the timbers are set at ' ... centers ...' of a certain value: commonly 600 or 400 mm.

 

Liars.    Here's why I'm so irritated.

The first vertical (let's say the one fastened to a structural wall)  labelled A here

Framing.jpeg.thumb.jpeg.b27cd3c1ad69225b647c6d6fe0bd0d3f.jpeg

 

To set the center of vertical B, you (I am told) measure 600 from the wall. Using 45mm timber, I deduct 22.5mm left and right to Mark the edges of the timber

 

I now have the center-line and both edges of vertical A

 

From there on, I can measure 600mm lines to mark the subsequent C/Ls  

Why is the first center line marked 600 mm from the wall and not the center-line of timber A ?

 

Eh? Tell me that?

 

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12 minutes ago, recoveringacademic said:

Why is the first center line marked 600 mm from the wall and not the center-line of timber A ?

I may be wrong.....l. But is it not because if your using 1200mm sheeting or plasterboard it will start against the wall and you want the joint to land in the middle of the stud........ 

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13 minutes ago, recoveringacademic said:

Why is the first center line marked 600 mm from the wall and not the center-line of timber A ?

+1 as i had no idea this was the way it was fone.

Are the 'centres' in a stud wall regulated or can you essentially do what you like so long s structure isn't an issue for you? This being the case, why not just have 400 or 600 spacing 'between' studs instead of measuring to the centres?

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I am doing my shed at the moment and there are three things that have dictated where I put my studs, 

1. To make sure that my obs sheeting edge  will fall in the centre of a stud 

2. Designed spacing to accommodate rock wool insulation with minimal cutting 

3. To make sure it’s as solid as I require it.  

 

Am am I missing something 

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It's simple.

 

All the intermediate joints in the wall board sit on the centre of a stud.

 

But the very first (and last) sit on the outside edge of the stud.

 

So think of it as the first stud is offset by half it's thickness to account for this.  Don't forget this fact when cutting your noggins.

 

If the "end" is a corner, then you also have to decide which board will overlap over the end of the first, which gives you another correction for the thickness of the board to make.

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Oh the classic. I always measure 422 off the wall and put the cros on the wall side and carry on 822, 1222...... The classic mistake is they will leave the 1200 stud so the board finishes on the edge of the stud. Luckily you haven't made this mistake but I have had to adjust a lot of apprentices studwork from this old classic

 

The first noggin is always short otherwise you get a 1/2" gap in the plasterboard. 

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10 minutes ago, Big Neil said:

+1 as i had no idea this was the way it was fone.

Are the 'centres' in a stud wall regulated or can you essentially do what you like so long s structure isn't an issue for you? This being the case, why not just have 400 or 600 spacing 'between' studs instead of measuring to the centres?

 

I don't know.

The other replies point to the importance of the center line of the one stud (vertical)  coinciding with both ends of the plasterboard. The gap between the others matter for different reasons (which I have yet to find out about)

 

@Cpd above summarises the main points elegantly.

 

My point is that to the student chippie   Centers   does not describe the full picture.  Centers for most - just not those verticals at the end of the run(s).

 

Cheeky buggers chippies......

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8 minutes ago, Big Neil said:

I'm sure it's a naive question, but why not just cut the board? I see examples of people cutting the board all the time. Is it simply a question of wastage?

You will have cuts at one  end but you don't want to be cutting each board because some joiner can't use a tape.  Takes time plus the waste aspect. 

Cut a bit of lath at 1200 with marks at 400 and 800 and use this to help you set out you bottom and top stud. 

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7 minutes ago, Big Neil said:

I'm sure it's a naive question, but why not just cut the board? I see examples of people cutting the board all the time. Is it simply a question of wastage?

Because the board won't be long enough. You would need it to be 1222 to reach the wall. Just wait until you get to a corner. (make sure you mark centers from the external side ?

 

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1 hour ago, recoveringacademic said:

The other replies point to the importance of the center line of the one stud (vertical)  coinciding with both ends of the plasterboard. The gap between the others matter for different reasons (which I have yet to find out about) 

 

West gable of my house: spent ages working out how to put the studs exactly on 600 centres ready for portrait-orientation OSB sheets. It was all a bit of a compromise as the ridge beam is a about 30 mm south of exactly centre (my fault) and the south main post is about 30 mm north of where it should be (not my fault) so quite a bit of head scratching was involved.

 

But I learned from it: for the other end of the house I realised only the studs on 1200 centres need to be exact, the intermediate ones just need to be roughly in the right place so I lined everything up to centre on the posts not caring that the centre stud up to the roof beam wasn't lined up as it went up the middle of a sheet. Much simpler and I've yet to find a problem with that.

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1 hour ago, Ed Davies said:

[...]

But I learned from it:

  • for the other end of the house I realised only the studs on 1200 centres need to be exact,
  • the intermediate ones just need to be roughly in the right place
  • so I lined everything up to centre on the posts -
  • not caring that the centre stud up to the roof beam wasn't lined up as it went up the middle of a sheet.

[...]

 

Bingo.

That's what  the discipline of doing a drawing (above) taught me. [ annotation This C/L matters]

 

Now, what's the crack with the intermediate studs? What matters? How accurate?

 

Mr Harris? Mr Edward - carpenter extraordinary?

 

 

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29 minutes ago, recoveringacademic said:

 

Bingo.

That's what  the discipline of doing a drawing (above) taught me. [ annotation This C/L matters]

 

Now, what's the crack with the intermediate studs? What matters? How accurate?

 

Mr Harris? Mr Edward - carpenter extraordinary?

 

 

They don't really but you may as well make as many gaps the same size as possible so it's easier for cutting noggins 

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41 minutes ago, Big Neil said:

Wasteage issue aside, is there any reason you wouldn't hang plasterboard in landscape orientation?

Not at all. But that just means you move the accurate stud 1200 along the wall. 

 

Edit: one small issue is it tends to leave light switches on the joint but electricians moan anyway so hey ho

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If your doing a chalet type roof its is easier to go landscape.  The first vertical wall is usually 1200mm high. Much easier on the slope as well as you will use more full boards but might get left with a 100-300mm piece before you get to the ceiling. 

It just depends on the particular roof.  

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1 hour ago, Mr Punter said:

I can see the appeal of feet and inches for framing. 16 or 24 inches on center is what it is all about for the Yanks. Funny that there are still lots wood based sheets in imperial sizes, but not plasterboard.

It's not funny at all. It's bloody infuriating. Eg I made my timber frame 16" center so it worked for the osb. When I come to plasterboard there will be a lot of swearing/cutting

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52 minutes ago, recoveringacademic said:

Know what folks?

I think we should all work to base 8, not base 10. That'd make life interesting - lively even......

 

 No problem there ... the in house CPU discussed elsewhere used to be programmed in Octal.

 

Hexadecimal is for wimps...

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FFS! Even @zoothorn managed to grasp the simplicity of stud centres! ?

 

Be careful with the next walls coming off at 90deg you'll want to consider the plasterboard thickness at the start.

 

Nice sketches again though. I think each should maybe have a bear's paw incorporated somewhere...

Edited by Onoff
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