Nickfromwales Posted November 1, 2020 Share Posted November 1, 2020 Wont the MPV just open for heating only if the cylinder stat is satisfied? Failing that, just close the HWC gate valve until the heating is blown through. Is there a cylinder stat, or does DHW simply just get to the set temp of the boiler stat? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterW Posted November 1, 2020 Share Posted November 1, 2020 Should do but wonder if no cylinder stat..? Only way is to not allow the programmes to clash. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onoff Posted November 1, 2020 Author Share Posted November 1, 2020 11 minutes ago, Nickfromwales said: Wont the MPV just open for heating only if the cylinder stat is satisfied? Failing that, just close the HWC gate valve until the heating is blown through. Is there a cylinder stat, or does DHW simply just get to the set temp of the boiler stat? I assumed that's how it works. Yes there is a cylinder stat. I've put this up before from when I figured the wiring: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nickfromwales Posted November 1, 2020 Share Posted November 1, 2020 Yup. Nowt lazy about that then. If you switch heating on only, you'll only get flow through the rads. Word. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterW Posted November 1, 2020 Share Posted November 1, 2020 Heating on only and turn the pump up to max .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nickfromwales Posted November 1, 2020 Share Posted November 1, 2020 10 minutes ago, PeterW said: Heating on only and turn the pump up to max .... Our hero.... LOL ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onoff Posted November 2, 2020 Author Share Posted November 2, 2020 (edited) Is it absolutely imperative, on a single pipe system, to have the flow to the rad in at the top and the "return", diagonally opposite at the bottom? Like this original one: Out of 8 in total, I've two downstairs rads here that are in/out at the bottom. One new, double convector rad I fitted (what is now the first downstairs rad) and then the last rad on the downstairs system the previous owner fitted. I have the opportunity when I next drain down to make them both "in at the top". (I'm replacing the last one anyway as that has the broken bleed screw). Thanks. Edited November 2, 2020 by Onoff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nickfromwales Posted November 2, 2020 Share Posted November 2, 2020 Seems so. Also looks to be susceptible to long runs having cooler rads at the end of the run too, vs flow and return systems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterW Posted November 2, 2020 Share Posted November 2, 2020 At what point are you planning on changing the rad system to flow and return ..? Or is the “plan” to do the whole ground floor with UFH eventually ..? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onoff Posted November 2, 2020 Author Share Posted November 2, 2020 I've got the OK to borrow one of these for as long as I need within reason! https://www.kamco.co.uk/c90-fwf-descaling-pump.html Need to read the book now! Also will need some sort of adapter to go onto the pump or IntaKlean connections from these hose ends. No rubber/fibre washer in there...that's odd: Wondering if I could fit it where the IntaKlean magnetic filter currently is? Easy isolation etc all the kit at ground floor and so on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterW Posted November 2, 2020 Share Posted November 2, 2020 How old is the boiler ..?? I’d be tempted to bridge the boiler rather than having that run through it or you could end up with more problems than you have today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onoff Posted November 2, 2020 Author Share Posted November 2, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, PeterW said: How old is the boiler ..?? I’d be tempted to bridge the boiler rather than having that run through it or you could end up with more problems than you have today. 1998 or thereabouts I think. What's the worry, clogging the boiler up? Edited November 2, 2020 by Onoff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dpmiller Posted November 2, 2020 Share Posted November 2, 2020 I'd be more worried about pressure blowing out the H/E, they thin out over time... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onoff Posted November 2, 2020 Author Share Posted November 2, 2020 25 minutes ago, dpmiller said: I'd be more worried about pressure blowing out the H/E, they thin out over time... Could the same (pressure) be an issue for the coil in the (/a dodgy old) HWC? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nickfromwales Posted November 2, 2020 Share Posted November 2, 2020 If running through the whole single pipe system as well as the boiler it’ll be fine. Have the MPV open as a bypass so the heating circuit isn’t seeing full force of the PFM. The old school boilers are pretty tough tbh. Reversing the flow is the money shot as that stirs quite a bit of crud up, as does using an SDS rubber hammer on the bottom of the rads whilst flushing. Go hard, or go home. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onoff Posted November 2, 2020 Author Share Posted November 2, 2020 15 minutes ago, Nickfromwales said: If running through the whole single pipe system as well as the boiler it’ll be fine. Have the MPV open as a bypass so the heating circuit isn’t seeing full force of the PFM. The old school boilers are pretty tough tbh. Reversing the flow is the money shot as that stirs quite a bit of crud up, as does using an SDS rubber hammer on the bottom of the rads whilst flushing. Go hard, or go home. The plan was to cross connect the F&E filler and expansion pipes & put the mid position and two 2 port valves to manual. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nickfromwales Posted November 2, 2020 Share Posted November 2, 2020 35 minutes ago, Onoff said: Could the same (pressure) be an issue for the coil in the (/a dodgy old) HWC? Nah, it’ll be fine. Worst part of the HWC will be the cold connection at the bottom. If that’s looking ok then the rest will hold up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nickfromwales Posted November 2, 2020 Share Posted November 2, 2020 1 hour ago, Onoff said: The plan was to cross connect the F&E filler and expansion pipes & put the mid position and two 2 port valves to manual. You’ll need to link flow and return at source and fit a gate valve for a manual bypass adjustment. Linking the F&E will do zilch as they’re only a tiny bit apart and on the same flow pipe. ? Needs to be across where you link the PFM in ideally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onoff Posted November 2, 2020 Author Share Posted November 2, 2020 2 hours ago, Nickfromwales said: Linking the F&E will do zilch as they’re only a tiny bit apart and on the same flow pipe. ? I see that now, just from up in the loft having a gander. What stops the "surge" from the PFM going up the feed pipe back into the F&E tank and similarly up the expansion pipe into the same F&E tank? Answering my own questions maybe but I've a ball valve on the feed pipe so can isolate that. For the expansion pipe I could just cap it off? 2 hours ago, Nickfromwales said: You’ll need to link flow and return at source and fit a gate valve for a manual bypass adjustment. You've lost me there I'm afraid. Isn't it just a loop of pipe in effect with the PFM introduced into it? 2 hours ago, Nickfromwales said: Needs to be across where you link the PFM in ideally. You mean a link with a gate valve in? Not getting it tbh. Sorry for being thick! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onoff Posted November 2, 2020 Author Share Posted November 2, 2020 9 hours ago, PeterW said: At what point are you planning on changing the rad system to flow and return ..? Or is the “plan” to do the whole ground floor with UFH eventually ..? Hmmm...tricky one. I have mulled running a flow and return straight down the centre of the house. At ground this would CURRENTLY be under a suspended timber floor (ish) but at two different floor heights. That would be a bit of a waste though if/when I change to solid built up floors with UFH in. It might be better to run the flow and return lengthways down the house but in the void above the ground floor ceiling joists but below the dormer floor joists. There's as much as a foot from the top of the d'stairs joists to the underside of the dormer floor joists. Then drop pipes down to the rads. The big problem is the house is a hotch potch of wall, floor and ceiling constructions over the years topped by a "new" (mid 80s) roof tying it all together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onoff Posted November 2, 2020 Author Share Posted November 2, 2020 Interesting reading the ScaleBreaker manual. You can add various chemical agents for descaling from mild to strong. I wonder if their "CG", in white crystal form is just citric acid? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onoff Posted November 3, 2020 Author Share Posted November 3, 2020 Seems if I'd have bought a different "magnaclean" then attaching a power flusing rig is a doddle. This is the Fernox one: There's also ones you attach in place of the pump motor. This is circa £100 from the people who make the power flushing rig: A quarter of the price this generic one: Both though mean getting the power flush rig up into the loft. Still planning to connect something where the IntaKlean unit fits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onoff Posted November 5, 2020 Author Share Posted November 5, 2020 The ScaleBreaker power flushing rig is a beast! I'm aiming to plumb it into the return line just before the boiler as aforementioned. I've brass & iron fittings to go from 3/4" male to 1" male BSP which I'll assemble with PTFE tape. (Just hoping the 1" BSP is correct but I won't know until I remove the IntaKlean mag filter). The rig's flexible pipe fittings are black plastic, 3/4" BSP that come prefitted to reinforced hose attached with a jubilee clip. However there is no plastic or fibre washer. Maybe just more PTFE tape on the plastic to iron connection? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dpmiller Posted November 5, 2020 Share Posted November 5, 2020 if it's a loose nut, you'd be best with a rubber washer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onoff Posted November 6, 2020 Author Share Posted November 6, 2020 8 hours ago, dpmiller said: if it's a loose nut, you'd be best with a rubber washer Yes, the nut above the jubilee clip in the last picture rotates freely. Got one of the hoses with me today so it's off to the plumber's merchants later for some washers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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