Nickfromwales Posted October 29, 2020 Share Posted October 29, 2020 2 minutes ago, Onoff said: 22mm copper drops vertically from the header tank and tees into the horizontal 28mm after the air separator and before the pump. The pipe from the F&E has the 3 bits if yellow tape on. Would the 8bar outside tap do? ? I’m switching my phone off......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onoff Posted October 29, 2020 Author Share Posted October 29, 2020 1 hour ago, Nickfromwales said: I’m switching my phone off......... Quarter to twelve and still filling... slowly...very slowly... Think I mentioned before a mate has access to a "power flushing rig". Worth a go? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onoff Posted October 30, 2020 Author Share Posted October 30, 2020 Giving up for tonight. More bleeding tomorrow...or should I say today... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nickfromwales Posted October 30, 2020 Share Posted October 30, 2020 7 hours ago, Onoff said: Quarter to twelve and still filling... slowly...very slowly... Think I mentioned before a mate has access to a "power flushing rig". Worth a go? Prob not at this time. It’s most prob the input T connector that is blocked, hence the long fill time. Prob a hole in the middle of the crud the size of a knitting needle. That’s a common problem with F&E and I often back fill with a hosepipe with a lad up the attic watching for levels in the header tank. If you can find that T, better to cut it out tbh but I wouldn’t worry about that until you drain down next. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onoff Posted October 30, 2020 Author Share Posted October 30, 2020 @Nickfromwales, are these Easibleed screws any good for where there's a snapped off bleed screw? https://easibleed.co.uk/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nickfromwales Posted October 30, 2020 Share Posted October 30, 2020 Don’t know tbh. I just go and buy a radiator at that stage. Cheap enough to not f*** about. ? Link £60 for a P+, but you’ll prob be ok with a single convector. £45 or so prob. How much is your time and that kit worth ? And that’s if it works and the rad isn’t rotten out at the point where you drill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onoff Posted October 30, 2020 Author Share Posted October 30, 2020 34 minutes ago, Nickfromwales said: Don’t know tbh. I just go and buy a radiator at that stage. Cheap enough to not f*** about. ? Link £60 for a P+, but you’ll prob be ok with a single convector. £45 or so prob. How much is your time and that kit worth ? And that’s if it works and the rad isn’t rotten out at the point where you drill. Radiator is quite old I guess. Overall size 945x530 nom. Just over 920mm between valve faces: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nickfromwales Posted October 30, 2020 Share Posted October 30, 2020 So you'll be looking at a 900 x 600 K1 ( aka single ) and fitting some oyster tails or an insert DOC to get the gap made up. £39 quid. Get in the car. rad valve drain off Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onoff Posted October 30, 2020 Author Share Posted October 30, 2020 Bollicks! Leak on the 28mm soldered elbow! Maybe swap out for a compression? Drain down time again! ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nickfromwales Posted October 30, 2020 Share Posted October 30, 2020 1 minute ago, Onoff said: Drain down time again! ? Perfect time to fit the new radiator ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nickfromwales Posted October 30, 2020 Share Posted October 30, 2020 Are you putting flux on the solder as well as the pipe and fittings? With 28mm it’s good to re-introduce flux during the soldering of the joint. And yes, I could have told you that a few days ago, but I thought you were all trained up on soldering after the bathroom / other plumbing. ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onoff Posted October 30, 2020 Author Share Posted October 30, 2020 (edited) 23 minutes ago, Nickfromwales said: Are you putting flux on the solder as well as the pipe and fittings? With 28mm it’s good to re-introduce flux during the soldering of the joint. And yes, I could have told you that a few days ago, but I thought you were all trained up on soldering after the bathroom / other plumbing. ? Flux on both. It didn't seem to run round the joints as well as I've had it go before. Some water in the horizontal pipe anyway that comes out periodically. Going compression now. Need it going anyway. All needing showers! Edited October 30, 2020 by Onoff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onoff Posted October 30, 2020 Author Share Posted October 30, 2020 & refill... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onoff Posted October 30, 2020 Author Share Posted October 30, 2020 (edited) Well...no leak at the was soldered ) now compression joint at the boiler but... Years ago I put a ball valve after the downstairs 2 port valve up in the loft. That's got a weep. I only used tape on the olives there. Jet Blue Plus would sort it. Might be able to do in situ without draining down and just some isolation here and there: Then on the return from the coil on the bottom of the HWC there's a "balancing", gate valve. Doesn't look well: One of the existing pump valves had a weep, backed the nut off and packed with Jet Blue Plus. Seems to have worked. The pump though is for want of a better word, "hunting". Not a nice steady whirr. Sort of goes, vroom, vroom, vroom about 2 ) 3 times a second. On speed 3, the highest. Out of 8 downstairs rads, all singles, 2 I can't bleed. One of them I can't get to for junk. The second is the one I sheared the bleed valve off of. Of the 4 upstairs rads all doubles; 2 I can bleed properly. One I can only bleed half of one double. On that and the fourth double, the rad key just slips on both rads. Going to try some new rad keys. Sods Law the new pump valves have just arrived! ? I have at least some heat upstairs bar the rads I can't bleed. Struggling though to get heat downstairs at the mo. Single 22mm pipe is hot to nearly the first rad. Blockage? Anything to do with these 2 new 22mm ball valves I've put in? Let's be honest here it all needs ripping out and renewing! Edited October 30, 2020 by Onoff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nickfromwales Posted October 30, 2020 Share Posted October 30, 2020 Circulation or lack of it will be down to air locks most prob. Single pope is a da k of ? on a good day. Putting a cold mains on drain offs and firing short sharp 2-pints-at-a-time blasts of water in under pressure may help shift things a bit. The pump ‘hunting’ is knackered. That’s all the good news I can give you for today. At least until I’m pissed later and then I’ll let rip ????? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onoff Posted October 30, 2020 Author Share Posted October 30, 2020 1 hour ago, Nickfromwales said: Circulation or lack of it will be down to air locks most prob. Single pope is a da k of ? on a good day. Putting a cold mains on drain offs and firing short sharp 2-pints-at-a-time blasts of water in under pressure may help shift things a bit. The pump ‘hunting’ is knackered. That’s all the good news I can give you for today. At least until I’m pissed later and then I’ll let rip ????? You pi$$ed yet? I just bought a crate of 12 something from Aldi to drown my sorrows! Though I defer to your wisdom, struggling to see how pump was working but not now with what I've done (as is SWMBO ?). Was it on the brink? Why now, all of a sudden, just interested. Hoping against hope but could it just be fighting all the crud in the system? If no then this is the existing pump (I have to bend double to take this): I do have this pump you pointed me at years ago and has sat here doing nothing. Straight swap? Cheers (I've taken a video clip with sound of the existing pump working on all 3 positions. Waiting for it to upload). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onoff Posted October 30, 2020 Author Share Posted October 30, 2020 New pump fitted! That was easy. With the old pump removed I took the silver screw out and rotated the shaft. Tbh it feels perfect. Looking down the end of the pump and I can see the impeller. Looks intact. Really thinking this is just grot in the system. As evidenced by some of the crap in the bottom of the bowl next to the old pump lid. Very, very black and rusty/ferrous: Thinking the original pump might in fact be OK. Still no heat downstairs mind. Off to bleed again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterW Posted October 30, 2020 Share Posted October 30, 2020 Sounds like borrowing that power flush unit may be helpful but I would have a couple of containers of system cleaner going round before I did anything as invasive as use a power flush. You need to make sure all the joints are good as they can get a bit fierce. That magnaclean will also start taking some crud out as it starts working. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dpmiller Posted October 30, 2020 Share Posted October 30, 2020 there's a lot of crap in that pump. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onoff Posted October 30, 2020 Author Share Posted October 30, 2020 13 minutes ago, dpmiller said: there's a lot of crap in that pump. 37 minutes ago, PeterW said: Sounds like borrowing that power flush unit may be helpful but I would have a couple of containers of system cleaner going round before I did anything as invasive as use a power flush. You need to make sure all the joints are good as they can get a bit fierce. That magnaclean will also start taking some crud out as it starts working. Just undone the IntaKlean and the crud is impressive. Lots of visuble, ferrous debris encased in a black sludge. The mesh case surrounding it was pretty grubby as well: Added half of the first litre of Sentinel X400. I'll let that run round for a bit and add some more! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onoff Posted October 30, 2020 Author Share Posted October 30, 2020 (edited) Stuck 2L of Sentinel X400 over the course of the evening in 6 doses. Every time the magnet is coated in crud. Leaving the last lot in to circulate. Next weekend I'll drain down again at least and fit the new rad and pump valves, Thinking to build flushing rig. Looks easy enough. Saying that I might be able to borrow one from work possibly... Edited October 30, 2020 by Onoff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onoff Posted October 30, 2020 Author Share Posted October 30, 2020 We have hot downstairs rads...eventually. Obviously not the one I broke the bleed screw off on. Video of the Grundfoss 15-50 130 pump I took out (25-60 130 now fitted): Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterW Posted October 31, 2020 Share Posted October 31, 2020 £100 worth of bits there in his home built system and you can hire the real deal for £50 for a weekend and it will be much more powerful. Also as you’re on a single pipe system you’ll only get the crud out of the pipes not the rads as it will follow path of least resistance. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onoff Posted October 31, 2020 Author Share Posted October 31, 2020 (edited) 2 hours ago, PeterW said: £100 worth of bits there in his home built system and you can hire the real deal for £50 for a weekend and it will be much more powerful. Also as you’re on a single pipe system you’ll only get the crud out of the pipes not the rads as it will follow path of least resistance. Understood. I see HSS were doing the kit for £76 for the first day. As I said above I think work may have one. The upstairs 4 rads are on their own flow and return circuit. I suppose for the rads on the single pipe system the best solution is take them off one at a time and flush through with a hose in the garden then? As an aside if, in the single pipe running below each rad, there was an isolation valve, would that force "cleaner" through just the rad? Typical old rad. Flow is right to left. Interesting how "hot" comes in at the top on the right and out at the bottom in the left. Did half wonder if the flow is in the right direction! Swept tees too, I imagine to aid the flow in/out. Into the top of the rad, flow right to left: Out at the bottom of the rad, flow right to left: Sometime the single pipe goes through the skirting / wall like in the first photo. Elsewhere it goes down through the floorboards. Puts the (possibly) lowest point under the suspended floor somewhere. Inaccessible without a major room clear out. I bet that's sludgy there! Edited October 31, 2020 by Onoff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterW Posted October 31, 2020 Share Posted October 31, 2020 6 minutes ago, Onoff said: As an aside if, in the single pipe running below each rad, there was an isolation valve, would that force "cleaner" through just the rad? Yes but by the time you have cut and inserted this lot, you would be better re-piping the whole lot with new rads and new pipework..! Use 10mm Hep2O to a manifold per floor and you can lose it behind skirting boards anyway. Your issue with using an isolator in the flow pipe is that if someone turns a rad valve off then you’ve lost flow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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