No deal Brexit impact

[SteamyTea]

12 minutes ago, scottishjohn said:

so not going to be quick mending

I am up at my Mother's as after a month, my Aunt, who broke her leg while staying, is just fit enough to travel back to Canada.

The bill is large as she had to have her hip replacement, replaced, again.  So at about £35,000 from her insurance company, the NHS have done quite nicely out of it (one of my Cousins is a GP and she think the bill in Canada would be about the same, but in $C, but one of my other Cousins lives in the USA, a CAT scan starts at $35,000)

 

Edited November 18, 2019 by SteamyTea

[Simplysimon]

1 hour ago, SteamyTea said:

I am up at my Mother's as after a month, my Aunt, who broke her leg while staying, is just fit enough to travel back to Canada.

The bill is large as she had to have her hip replacement, replaced, again.  So at about £35,000 from her insurance company, the NHS have done quite nicely out of it (one of my Cousins is a GP and she think the bill in Canada would be about the same, but in $C, but one of my other Cousins lives in the USA, a CAT scan starts at $35,000)

 

at least she was insured, it's the ones who come here on purpose, use the NHS and then go back home and don't pay their bill.

[SteamyTea]

Just now, Simplysimon said:

at least she was insured, it's the ones who come here on purpose, use the NHS and then go back home and don't pay their bill

They have a way of dealing with that, nothing, apart from pain management and a bed was going to happen before £8000 was deposited.

I suspect that as my Aunt is British, she could have had it for free anyway, but the insurance gave her a room to herself.

[Temp]

On 17/11/2019 at 12:08, Jeremy Harris said:

There was never, ever, any plan to locate the European Gigafactory in the UK.  Tesla never even looked at the option, or had any discussions with anyone in the UK about siting a Gigafactory here.  It's been a badly kept secret that the European Gigafactory was going to be located in Germany for months now.

 

My MP told me they had/were making efforts but gave me no specifics. Then to day I see....

 

https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/government-accused-bungling-bid-bring-17807743

 

Government accused of bungling bid to bring mammoth Tesla factory to Greater Manchester

Tesla ultimately set up their site in Berlin but Heywood was understood to be in the running.

 

The government has been accused of bungling a bid to lure electric car giant Tesla to Greater Manchester.

It is understood ministers tried to entice the huge American company to set up a huge new manufacturing plant at the ‘Northern Gateway’ site in Heywood.

 

The 600,000 square metre-plot near the M62 is believed to have been the only UK site of the scale required for Tesla’s purposes.

 

However, the firm, headed by billionaire entrepreneur Elon Musk, ultimately opted to base its Gigafactory Europe operation in Berlin.

 

The German city is believed to have always been the frontrunner - with Musk promising to reforest an area three times the size of that which would be lost in constructing the new plant.

 

But those close to efforts to tempt the manufacturer to Heywood say the government’s handling of the situation bordered on the inept - claims a Department for International Trade spokesperson said “we do not recognise".

 

Rochdale council leader Allen Brett said the borough had missed out on a huge boost to the economy, thousands of highly-skilled jobs and a new source of business rates.

 

He added:  “On the government’s involvement, I’ve not been assured the government has done enough to make this happen. Germany did a lot, and I’m not sure we did the same.

 

“I think if we had a bit more of a push from the government we might really have got something.”

[Jeremy Harris]

It's still a myth, along with a very healthy dose of wishful thinking.  Musk didn't even come to the UK looking at any possible site for a Gigafactory, he's always been focussed on Germany.    Irrespective of whether the UK was in or out of the EU, the UK would have been a barking mad location for a factory where 95% of it's output is going to be left hand drive cars for the European market.  As it happens, the biggest early market is probably Norway (which isn't in the EU) as they have the highest proportion of EVs in Europe, but Norway would have been as barking mad a choice as the UK, for similar logistic reasons.  You only need to look at supply chain logistics to see which countries could possible house a factory on this massive scale and which couldn't.  Having to ferry all the materials into the UK, then ferry almost all the built cars back out of the UK would have been crazy.

[Bitpipe]

5 minutes ago, Jeremy Harris said:

It's still a myth, along with a very healthy dose of wishful thinking.  Musk didn't even come to the UK looking at any possible site for a Gigafactory, he's always been focussed on Germany.    Irrespective of whether the UK was in or out of the EU, the UK would have been a barking mad location for a factory where 95% of it's output is going to be left hand drive cars for the European market.  As it happens, the biggest early market is probably Norway (which isn't in the EU) as they have the highest proportion of EVs in Europe, but Norway would have been as barking mad a choice as the UK, for similar logistic reasons.  You only need to look at supply chain logistics to see which countries could possible house a factory on this massive scale and which couldn't.  Having to ferry all the materials into the UK, then ferry almost all the built cars back out of the UK would have been crazy.

 

Wife works for a Norwegian firm, as well as being exceptionally wealthy there are only 5M of them in quite a large country. Tesla ownership is off the scale. 

 

Although one thing that has always puzzled me is how they allow for the reduced range due to cold weather. I suppose given there are relatively concentrated pockets of population (Oslo, Trondheim, Bergen) most of the usage is short hops.

 

Bottom line with Brexit is that if (as seems likely) there will be some degree of customs / market friction between mainland UK and the rest of Europe plus higher barriers to free movement for employment (UK has relatively little spare native employment capacity) combined with traditional low productivity and an averagely educated workforce then than will be a factor for external companies looking to inwardly invest.

 

Flip-side is that a cheaper pound and loosening of employment legislation (bad for workers, good for business) and a lower corporation tax policy (good for companies, bad for funding govt services) may act as a draw.

[Jeremy Harris]

8 minutes ago, Bitpipe said:

 

Although one thing that has always puzzled me is how they allow for the reduced range due to cold weather. I suppose given there are relatively concentrated pockets of population (Oslo, Trondheim, Bergen) most of the usage is short hops.

 

 

Not really an issue.  Even in very cold weather a Model 3 LR will still comfortably do around 220 to 250 miles, and Norway has a pretty good rapid charging network.  There's a Norwegian guy on YouTube that is a Tesla fan: https://www.youtube.com/user/bjornnyland  and he's done some epic road trips, including right up North, with no issues.

[Bitpipe]

1 minute ago, Jeremy Harris said:

 

Not really an issue.  Even in very cold weather a Model 3 LR will still comfortably do around 220 to 250 miles, and Norway has a pretty good rapid charging network.  There's a Norwegian guy on YouTube that is a Tesla fan: https://www.youtube.com/user/bjornnyland  and he's done some epic road trips, including right up North, with no issues.

 

Drink driving also not as much of an issue due to the super expensive booze and state licensed shop scheme. They've also introduced a high sugar tax which is a boom for Swedish sweetshops on the border

[Ferdinand]

2 hours ago, Bitpipe said:

Flip-side is that a cheaper pound and loosening of employment legislation (bad for workers, good for business) and a lower corporation tax policy (good for companies, bad for funding govt services) may act as a draw.

 

Not totally sure about that, as it may cut both ways. eg we have on of the highest minimum wages in Europe which is about to go up in April by another 6.2%. Though that varies depending on currencies.

 

I'm not convinced that these will be loosened. 

F

[Onoff]

3 hours ago, Jeremy Harris said:

Musk didn't even come to the UK looking at any possible site for a Gigafactory, he's always been focussed on Germany.   

 

There was a thing yesterday (The Independent I think) suggesting Tesla is driving the German economy towards recession. Such is the German economy reliant on it's big car producers. Buyers are shifting in such droves to Tesla it's having a knock on effect. Pretty much it's a case of upping their game or falling by the wayside in the face of a more in demand product. 

[Jeremy Harris]

1 hour ago, Onoff said:

 

There was a thing yesterday (The Independent I think) suggesting Tesla is driving the German economy towards recession. Such is the German economy reliant on it's big car producers. Buyers are shifting in such droves to Tesla it's having a knock on effect. Pretty much it's a case of upping their game or falling by the wayside in the face of a more in demand product. 

 

 

One of the reasons Tesla chose Germany was because the pretty big German car industry means that logistic supply chains are already in place.  Pretty much every second and third tier parts and components supplier already has a presence in Germany.  Tesla also already use some German parts (notably Mercedes switch gear) too, so they already have a relationship with some of those suppliers.

 

It wouldn't surprise me to find that Tesla are starting to impact on German car sales.  One reason may well be performance.  The Model 3 pretty easily out-performs a BMW M3, for example, and costs a bit less to buy.  Not going to be long before all those who have been buying relatively fast BMWs and Audi's switch to Tesla's, if only because they get fed up with losing out at the traffic light grand prix.  There aren't really many cars that can pull off the line like a dual motor Model 3, or Model S.

[K78]

2 hours ago, Onoff said:

 

There was a thing yesterday (The Independent I think) suggesting Tesla is driving the German economy towards recession. Such is the German economy reliant on it's big car producers. Buyers are shifting in such droves to Tesla it's having a knock on effect. Pretty much it's a case of upping their game or falling by the wayside in the face of a more in demand product. 

Germany benefit massively from the €. It allows their very strong economy to have a artificially low currency. In turn this maximises profits on every BMW, Porsche, Merc, Audi they export. 
 

They export a lot and import nothing. 

[K78]

5 hours ago, Bitpipe said:

 

Drink driving also not as much of an issue due to the super expensive booze and state licensed shop scheme. They've also introduced a high sugar tax which is a boom for Swedish sweetshops on the border

Sugar tax is a joke. Let’s replace it with asparmatine  and sucrolose. Give everyone autoimmune disorders and cancer. 

[K78]

29 minutes ago, Jeremy Harris said:

 

 

One of the reasons Tesla chose Germany was because the pretty big German car industry means that logistic supply chains are already in place.  Pretty much every second and third tier parts and components supplier already has a presence in Germany.  Tesla also already use some German parts (notably Mercedes switch gear) too, so they already have a relationship with some of those suppliers.

 

It wouldn't surprise me to find that Tesla are starting to impact on German car sales.  One reason may well be performance.  The Model 3 pretty easily out-performs a BMW M3, for example, and costs a bit less to buy.  Not going to be long before all those who have been buying relatively fast BMWs and Audi's switch to Tesla's, if only because they get fed up with losing out at the traffic light grand prix.  There aren't really many cars that can pull off the line like a dual motor Model 3, or Model S.

M3 is discontinued but you get a easy 25% off a m4. Anyone who pays near list price for a BMW is mental. 
 

The traffic light race is Tesla’s one trick. Show it a twisty road and it wouldn’t see which way a m4 or rs4 went. 
 

I think it will be a long, long time before AMG, RS and m car buyers go electric. The new c63 amg will have the 2lt 4pot from the a45s and a electric motor. It’s 2 years away and already people are very angry. 
 

Performance car drivers will be the last to accept electric. I drove a model s and was unimpressed. Cheap plastics, shoddy build. Felt more Dacia than Audi. The straight line pull is initially impressive but it gets old quick and the car hated bends. All felt very artificial too. 
 

Taycan looks impressive but it costs 80k more than a gt3. Only company directors are going to take them for the tax break.

 

*forgot to mention how bad the model 3 performance looks compared to a m3/rs4/c63. No way it’s taking many buyers from them, other than company cars. 

Edited February 26, 2020 by K78

[Jeremy Harris]

8 minutes ago, K78 said:

 

The traffic light race is Tesla’s one trick. Show it a twisty road and it wouldn’t see which way a m4 or rs4 went. 
 

 

Have you driven a dual motor Model 3?  I suspect not, as even the boring LR version I have (the one without the bigger wheels, stiffer suspension and big Brembo brakes) easily handles twisty lanes at speed.  The Model 3 Performance was tested against an M3 last year by Top Gear, and wasn't too shabby:

 

 

They did a drag race (the area where Tesla's traditionally tend to do well), a 0 to 100mph to 0 straight line test, a hot lap around a circuit, and a (rather pointless IMHO) drift off.

 

Unsurprisingly, the Model 3 won the drag race fairly easily, and won the 0 to 100mph to 0 race.  It also won the hot lap fairly convincingly.  Unsurprisingly, the only thing the M3 did well was the drift off.

[Onoff]

1 hour ago, Jeremy Harris said:

 

 

One of the reasons Tesla chose Germany was because the pretty big German car industry means that logistic supply chains are already in place.  Pretty much every second and third tier parts and components supplier already has a presence in Germany.  Tesla also already use some German parts (notably Mercedes switch gear) too, so they already have a relationship with some of those suppliers.

 

It wouldn't surprise me to find that Tesla are starting to impact on German car sales.  One reason may well be performance.  The Model 3 pretty easily out-performs a BMW M3, for example, and costs a bit less to buy.  Not going to be long before all those who have been buying relatively fast BMWs and Audi's switch to Tesla's, if only because they get fed up with losing out at the traffic light grand prix.  There aren't really many cars that can pull off the line like a dual motor Model 3, or Model S.

 

Tesla just need to make their cars look sexy now! ?

[joe90]

Did anyone see top gear and that VW electric “car”, faster than a formula 1 car.

[K78]

36 minutes ago, Jeremy Harris said:

 

Have you driven a dual motor Model 3?  I suspect not, as even the boring LR version I have (the one without the bigger wheels, stiffer suspension and big Brembo brakes) easily handles twisty lanes at speed.  The Model 3 Performance was tested against an M3 last year by Top Gear, and wasn't too shabby:

 

 

They did a drag race (the area where Tesla's traditionally tend to do well), a 0 to 100mph to 0 straight line test, a hot lap around a circuit, and a (rather pointless IMHO) drift off.

 

Unsurprisingly, the Model 3 won the drag race fairly easily, and won the 0 to 100mph to 0 race.  It also won the hot lap fairly convincingly.  Unsurprisingly, the only thing the M3 did well was the drift off.

‘I would expect it to win the drag. No way it would do a lap quicker than a f80 with a proper driver imo.
 

I guess 4wd gives it a advantage as the f80 struggles for traction. I nearly killed myself on portwood roundabout in Stockport. Doing less than 30mph, slight bit of throttle, full on sideways. Scared me almost to death. 
 

I have never driven a model 3. I understand then to be the best everyday EV but EV’s are not for me. I’m not knocking them. I just think there is a lot of media bias as Tesla are the brand the woke kids/media love. 
 

‘’I don’t do twitter. But I believe if you make a negative Tesla comment. The “mob” come for you. 
 

I just don’t think the “petrol heads” that buy m3 etc will adopt them until they have too. I know I won’t. 
 

The company are morally corrupt as well. They are clearly taking deposits on cars they have no intention of building. Cybertruck is a bad joke. Anyone who believes their $500 “deposit” has secured the a car that will never be built are gullible at best. 
 

‘’look at the deposit you need for a roadster (a car they will build). It is a long way from $500. 

[K78]

Another thing that causes me concern (not Tesla) is the cost of fast chargers. The network owned by ford, vag and others to take on Tesla’s fast charge network. Are already charging the cost of a tank of fuel for a charge. 
 

I thought they would at least wait until more people adopted them before doing this. 
 

 

Edited February 26, 2020 by K78

[Jeremy Harris]

There's certainly a lot of people gunning for EV manufacturers, and Tesla in particular.  Not sure why, maybe it's fear that EVs might actually turn out to be better than conventional cars in most ways.

 

The rapid charging hype stories (and they are largely hype) are pretty typical of those that choose to selective report on things, without bothering to do even some rudimentary research into the facts.  The facts are that Tesla have built a pretty good Supercharger network, and only Tesla's can use this charge network.  Tesla Superchargers may have CCS connectors, but they will not charge a non-Tesla. 

 

Rather unsurprisingly, the Ionity group ( BMW Group, Daimler AG, Ford Motor Company, and Volkswagen Group with Audi and Porsche ) have chosen to provide their own dedicated rapid charge network to compete with Tesla, that offers the same sort of rapid charge rates as Tesla Superchargers, at (and this may be a surprise) about the same price for electricity to Ionity group member's cars.  Because Ionity couldn't do what Tesla have done, and create their own unique communication protocol to lock out other makes, they were unable to prevent their rapid chargers from being used by EVs made by manufacturers outwith the Ionity group.  Their solution to this has been to use punitive pricing.  They have made Ionity rapid chargers ludicrously expensive to use for any EV not manufactured by an Ionity group member.

 

The plonker in that video should have done a bit of homework before going on a rant that's completely missed the point as to why Ionity are charging a punitive tariff for non-Ionity group EVs.  TBH, even their 69p/kWh is better than someone rocking up at a Tesla Supercharger in a Kona EV and finding that, despite the connector fitting, they cannot get any charge at all from the thing.

 

 

[MikeSharp01]

Perhaps not a good reason not to own a Tesla, or at least if you do, don't play video games while driving.

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-51645566

 

 

[K78]

I think they will get to a point where they are very good. I’m happy to wait until then. 
 

I just love the internal combustion engine. It’s a happy accident that a good one sounds (imo) better than anything on earth. 
 

One big problem is the amount of terraced houses and apartments. The other is the grid can barely cope to make us all a brew at half time of a World Cup final. I can’t see how we can all go electric. It’s not practical. 
 

Hydrogen cells have potential, but of course they are inherently dangerous.

[K78]

4 minutes ago, MikeSharp01 said:

Perhaps not a good reason not to own a Tesla, or at least if you do, don't play video games while driving.

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-51645566

 

 

I don’t care what anyone says. Autopilot, no matter how good is dangerous. 
 

If your car has been driving itself for a year with no issues. You will not be subconsciously switched on when in the car. Too easy to fall asleep or be on social media. 

[Jeremy Harris]

10 minutes ago, MikeSharp01 said:

Perhaps not a good reason not to own a Tesla, or at least if you do, don't play video games while driving.

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-51645566

 

 

 

Not sure how you can not be aware that autopilot mandates that you keep your hands on the steering wheel, TBH.  If the car detects that you aren't actively holding the wheel when autopilot is engaged it gives a pretty loud warning after 5 seconds, and if that is ignored it sounds another loud warning and disengages autopilot.  My guess is that this driver had one hand on the wheel, to fool the car into thinking he was able to take control, and was using the other hand to play video games.  Tesla are very clear that autopilot is not Full Self Driving yet, and requires the driver to remain in control at all times. 

 

3 minutes ago, K78 said:

I don’t care what anyone says. Autopilot, no matter how good is dangerous. 
 

If your car has been driving itself for a year with no issues. You will not be subconsciously switched on when in the car. Too easy to fall asleep or be on social media. 

 

Autopilot is not yet capable of fully autonomous driving, Tesla make that very clear.  Idiots will always be idiots, matters not what car they choose to drive.  No one has ever driven a Tesla on autopilot without having to intervene after a time. 

[Onoff]

I think the model S is much more a knicker dropper in terms of looks that the 3.

 

The S to me says low slung coupe. The 3 is a bit more squat ans family compact looking. Only my opinion, don't get me wrong I'd happily have either! 

 

Maybe Tesla should think about slide in drive trains and power packs for other makes...