Hello..your help will be needed.

[mvincentd]

Hi

 

I'd just said hello on eBuild back in late February when our project consisted of nothing more than ideas and aspirations.  The site closed before there was anything concrete to say.

 

Talking of concrete....thats what i'd planned on minimising the use of as I gravitated towards an MBC or similar structural approach.....but the plot dictates eh....and now finally after failed attempts to get offers accepted on land in first Frome, then Castle Cary we now find ourselves about to complete on a sloping plot in North Dorset with permission granted for a pretty much underground design....so concrete is now the key ingredient.  Other fun factors include the water main running bang through the middle of the plot, the architects cost projections being in another galaxy relative to our funds, the impossibility of extracting a static caravan once the house is built, our currently living 2.5 hours away in Brighton and having no head start via local knowledge/contacts, area house prices not supporting this concept even if we bring it in relatively cheaply, the sum total of my building experience involves throwing darts into old railway sleepers as a 9 year old to replicate wood worm (my contribution to my dad's self-build/renovation).  Pic of plot and permitted house attached.  I look forward to picking many brains here...thanks in advance.

[ToughButterCup]

Hmmm, interesting. And good luck!

 

Full Planning Permission?

Soil Survey?

[Gone West]

Hi and welcome to the forum. It's a nice position and the design looks interesting. I've always thought architects come from another galaxy as far as costs are concerned! Good luck.

[ProDave]

All I will say about the static caravan is leave it there once you have finished, don't worry about removing it. Clad it in timber to make it look nicer, and it will make a great workshoip / studio / store room.  That's what we will be doing.

 

If necessary, point out to the planners that it becomes a "permitted development" garden building after the build.  They accepted that in our case, and the only clause we have is "residential use of the caravan will cease within 1 month of completion of the house"
 

[Nickfromwales]

Hi and welcome. 

It seems befriending a local farmer is the way to get a lot of muck shifted for not a huge amount of money   One cleared the side of mine for less than the ( empty ) skips would have cost. 

Best to buy a flat cap and some wellies now and start looking for trails of cow poo  

[Crofter]

I have to ask, why would anybody want to pretend they had woodworm??

[Declan52]

Welcome. That will be a very nice looking house when finished. 

 

[TheMitchells]

Hi there and looking forward to hearing about the build. I am completely green as we still havent found a plot and I love the look of yours.  Whats a drain here or there.....

Good luck.

[Barney12]

This looks like a great design.

I wouldn't worry about the static caravan. At worse you'll be amazed and how fast they can be demolished! 

[mvincentd]

Well, thank you all for your comments.

to answer;

Yes, full PP.

No soil survey but high confidence from multiple sources....gravel initially into chalk mainly, not hitting water (other than the stuff in the bloody pipe!).

We need to achieve approx only 70% of the architects £ prediction.

All permitted development rights removed.

I've had my dad's old flat cap in the drawer for years unworn...I knew it would come in handy some day....nice idea thanks, the provisional figure i've got for the excavation & muck away is around 18k....so considering learning and having a crack at excavating, i've so much to practice on before I get to the critical edges.

Hmmm, woodworm....i'm not going to have a go at justifying that really but I guess it was a way of keeping me on the ground safe rather than constantly climbing scaffold to jump 2 storeys into the sand pile.

Thanks for the kind comments on the plot and design.  It was all there ready and waiting, we can't claim any of our own inspiration went into the design.  I'm going to try for permission to lift it all 70cm or so out of the ground mainly to make the entrance and driveway less hilly, change internal layout a bit, alter cladding type and substantially change the landscaping to make it more natural, less manicured.  The whole thing is in danger of being a bit too slick 'sandbanks' style so we've gotta knock the flashy edges off it for it to be 'us'.  There is no other building in the village even vaguely contemporary....thats why the planners want it pushed into the ground out of sight.

 

 

[PeterW]

50 minutes ago, mvincentd said:

[...] change internal layout a bit [...]

 

Don't forget you don't need PP for this unless it changes the positioning of openings etc.

 

You may find a 70cm lift needs a new PP - it wouldn't be classed as non-material unless you can reduce the roof line of the upper section so the whole thing is the same height.

 

Looks very nice though as a project !

[joe90]

I agree with a local farmer to get rid of soil, I have had 100 tons of clay taken by a local famer for much less than " proper" disposal, he had an old small quarry he wanted to fill.

[mvincentd]

Yes,  the 70cm lift may well force a new PP app' but my AT whose favourite part of the process is winning permissions feels its worth a try as a non-material so i'll let him lead the campaign.

 

I've a question and don't know what section it should post into, i'm sure not here;

 

A private 3" cast iron water main runs through the plot and I definitely need to move it once out of the way for excavations then again into its final resting place when groundworks are at that stage.  Key points are the pipe serves 15 houses with water from Wessex Water BUT its not their pipe, it's private and no-one can confirm ownership of it.  The absolute likelihood though is its the council's who would have installed it when they built the council houses it serves, now all sold off....they lack the record keeping efficiency to show it is/isnt theirs.

A/ My conveyancer says;"When a council property is sold off there are no specific easement reserved, because the Housing Act under which the right to buy was created is used as the power to sell the property, and this Act implies into the transfer all necessary easements which are in use for the benefit of the property at the time and equally reserves out of the land being sold any easements necessary for the use of the adjoining land retained by the council. I do not know whether the Housing Act contains detailed enough provisions to allow for moving /  relocation of a water pipe such as this, my feeling is that it probably does not. We could obtain specialist advice from a property barrister on the easement itself and what the options are, I am thinking probably £1,500 to £2,000 in fees for that."

B/ Wessex Water say; "You'll need permission from the pipe owner and all 15 houses you'll affect, to move the pipe".

C/ The land seller's conveyancer says; "The water main is PRIVATE, it's not Wessex's and it's not adopted by them, so on your land its yours, do what you want".

D/ Builders and ex-Wessex workers say; "How many times a day do you think this happens....we just get on with it, prep the new pipe to minimise off-time, warn the neighbours, do it...blink and they've missed it".

 

I'm buying the land at agreed price minus the "impact cost of the pipe".  We've known about the pipe all along and endeavoured throughout the conveyance period to identify an owner and get a clear official route of action to move it and work out the cost.  However, now we all want to exchange but are held up by putting a price on this due to the difference of opinions & lack of clarity on pipe ownership and therefore what the prevailing requirements are for its legal re-routing.

 

Does anyone even know which forum section to post this in !?

 

Thanks

 

[Crofter]

I've taken this topic across to property legal issues for further discussion

[PeterW]

Ok quick questions as I've stopped to a quick break in a ridiculous drive ...

 

how is old is the pipe ...?

who owns the land currently ..?

did they give permission for the pipe ..?

how long have they owned the land ..??

 

if you can get answers on those then may be able to point you in the right direction ....

 

 

[mvincentd]

Thanks Crofter.

 

Peter, the pipe is as old as the houses it serves....50's council houses.  The current land owner is relatively recent and owns/occupies one of the ex-council houses, and the deeds only contain typical non-specific easements for pipes and cables etc.  All the houses are now ex council in private hands, no-one really even appreciated the pipe was there, even though it was serving them.

 

It's been suggested to me today that the water authority's description 'private water main' may be misleading as really in practice its a 'shared private water supply pipe'.  That description would help as it would lessen the terms around which one can mess with it as opposed to a 'main'.

[PeterW]

Ok so if it is a main then they have a legal obligation as far as I remember ..! It is more likely listed as a communication pipe and that is where the issue will lie. 

 

The actual obligation for maintenance lies with the people it serves, not the land it runs through however the ownership is an unusual one. An easement usually has to be documented - without it you could effectively serve notice on the owners (IE the 15 properties) and give them 28 days to find a new location for the pipe. That's a slightly drastic route but sometimes focuses the mind or helps people find documentation ..!

 

What you may find however is that there is a legal easement in place by definition of it being more than 40 years so it's become absolute. It gives you a couple of problems as although you don't own the pipe, it does provide you with a simple connection method for your own property ..!

 

As it's not a water company asset you could get agreement to move it from the neighbours on the pretext of also upgrading it to MDPE - they are currently responsible for its upkeep and you could suggest it's in their interest to do the upgrade so it's not a problem in the future. Wessex should be able to provide you with a map of where it joins onto their main - if it's in your land or close by then relaying the whole length where you want it, and as part of groundwork just relay it where you want to. 

 

Cost depends on the length of replacement which should ideally be in 110mm MDPE for 15 houses however you could get away with 63mm and hope they don't have power showers .....

 

 

 

[Ferdinand]

Quick reply as going to the Doctor.

 

Would a shared supply pipe to a terrace not come under the recent adoption of shared supply pipes by water companies? 4-5 years ago?

 

Ferdinand

 

[mvincentd]

PeterW and Ferdinand, yes, all good assumptions that have a wealth of unofficial support.

 

They also contradict each other so for example the officially certificated and authorised water fiddlers say ;

"we are concerned that this issue is Wessex Water jurisdiction and therefore the only party to assist would be wessex water directly... Wessex water have adopted all water mains up to the individual property boundary boxes, therefore this would fall into their responsibility to either re-route or make safe."

 

Meanwhile Wessex Water maintain "not us mate, it's a private water main".

 

So daft as money is no object too....any cost associated with shifting the pipe to make the build feasible is agreed as deducted from the land purchase price.

 

At least WW are now investigating...5-10 days for an answer or an absolute written statement that permits me to contract someone to shift it.

 

Maybe it's just me being a paranoid first timer but the idea I can likely just get the builder to do it and 'get away wth it' isn't an adquate basis on which to spend six figure money.

 

Thanks for your suggestions and help....i'll play the waiting game with WW for the next week.

[mvincentd]

So here's how we ended up;

 

WW conclude it's a 3" cast iron privately installed pipe serving 16 houses in a ring, tapping off their water main and running to a dead end.  Their specified solution is to cut and cap the pipe just inside my plot boundary then attach the dead end to their water main.  This would involve digging up a 3rd party garden and leaving me with 2 manholes on my plot, one of which would necessarily be positioned problematically.  This would all end up costing around £15k.

 

.....and then I went and hired a Cat & Genny for £65......

 

No-one had previously said that the water authority mapping might be SO inaccurate that the first move should be to physically prove the position of things before speculating about solutions.

 

Within an hour i'd plotted the pipe and shortly after dug down to reveal it.....a 2" iron pipe running parallel to its mapped position but circa 15 metres out of position !

 

The result is good.....most of the pipe isn't even on our plot...that which is can be moved for £3k leaving nothing within our boundary.

 

I feel a fool for not magnetising the advice to me on week 1....physically establish the true line of the pipe, then consider it's impact.

[PeterW]

Sometimes the simplest solutions are staring you in the face ..! I've got a 25mm mdpe pipe to my plot that comes from the neighbours and they didn't even know about it ..! Oddly when I put a Cat and Genny on it I found it goes the most convoluted way possible to a fence 10 feet away ..!