Please explain basics to me- thx.

[zoothorn]

Hi- Ive got PPermision for a box extention to my stone cottage. It was 2 smallish, 2 story, but unable to afford quotes. So I resumbitted for, (£30) for a simpler 1 story design. I was told to 'get architect > give plan to builder > get permission > build it'. But how am I meant to to have any idea of what it might cost, in order to submit even an idea to my architect? For eg I got plans > sent to builder.. but couldn't afford the quotes. So I'm back at sq1 with no idea how to proceed.

 

Can someone tell me what the process is now, assuming I get permision for the revised, simpler single story? its just a box with a door + pitched roof.

 

Ive already wasted £2k on architects I now know I probably didnt need (so simple a design it is) but had no idea I wasn't supposed to, + a bat survey I now don't need. Ive had no advice/ or wrong advice, havent got a clue what Im doing/ who to call/ what to do/ what the steps are/ anything.. so Ive given up, I just cant cope with it. There's no information out there in simple 'step-by-step' form, to tell me what on earth Im meant to do to get something built.

 

I need to start again, & just finding this site: if only I could have found it before!

 

thanks, zoot

[Onoff]

31 minutes ago, zoothorn said:

just finding this site: if only I could have found it before!

 

The times I've thought exactly that! 

 

Mind there's probably a few on here wish I hadn't!

[divorcingjack]

It is a very difficult and overwhelming process. So, make a cup of tea/coffee (fully caffeinated!), sit down with a large notebook and pen.

 

Step1: Buy Chocolate digestives.

 

Step 2: Get on Amazon and order The Housebuilders Bible by Mark Brinkley. 

 

Step 3: Read the whole book at least 3 times, accompanied by said chocolate digestives. 

 

Step 4: Read every post and blog on this site. 

 

Step 5: Read them all again. 

 

Step 6: Work out how much money you can reasonably spend. 

 

Step 7: Assess your own skill set - are you going to be able to complete any of the work yourself? Be honest. 

 

Step 8: Assess how involved you want to be in the process. If you just want to be handed keys at the end, your extension will have to be smaller than if you are willing to pitch in and can actually be useful. 

 

Step 9: Ballpark figures - £1000 (low end finishes) to £1500 per square metre of finished home. Use the figure from Step 4 to work out how big the house might be. 

 

Time invested now is cheap - delays and poor decision making whilst mid-build are expensive and sometimes not possible.

 

 

[Nickfromwales]

3 minutes ago, divorcingjack said:

Step1: Buy Chocolate digestives.

Our work here is done . 

[divorcingjack]

That should have been the first few steps tbh. Dark chocolate digestives, obviously. 

 

I've taken my own advice while trying to buy a linear drain. There's not enough left for me to power through the options.  

 

 

[Guest Alphonsox]

Are you sure you actually need planning ? A small scale single story extension may well be covered by permitted development rights.

https://gov.wales/topics/planning/policy/guidanceandleaflets/householder-permitted-development-rights/?lang=en

[daiking]

Leave the house to fall down, buy a tent, live in the garden.

 

You’ll thank me one day.

[joe90]

I would look for a local builder with a good reputation ( recommendations only), he will give you a good idea of what you can achieve for your money, what needs planning/what does not etc etc.

[Temp]

Find out if what you want needs planning permission (PP). It's not always obvious. You could do your own rough sketch plan and post it on this forum for comment.

 

Even if PP is needed you may not need an architect. With care it's possible to make your own scale drawings and do your own planning application. If you can't make scale drawings then an Architectural Technician might be cheaper than an Architect. 

 

For a simple box extension on side or back a good builder could work from the planning drawings. Building Control would definitely need to be involved but they may agree to do it on a "Building Notice" rather than require "Full Plans Approval".

 

A builder should be able to estimate the total cost from a back of the envelope sketch with dimensions and a site visit to check for any issues (like manholes to move or build over). Get  him to do a proper quote when you have planning permission or better drawings.

 

 

 

[zoothorn]

10 hours ago, Alphonsox said:

Are you sure you actually need planning ? A small scale single story extension may well be covered by permitted development rights.

https://gov.wales/topics/planning/policy/guidanceandleaflets/householder-permitted-development-rights/?lang=en

 

Well, no. I got PP for the 1st idea, the 2 storys. I had to get PP for this, apparantly. Then once the quotes came in I couldn't afford them & I had re-ebaluate the whole plan to a 1 story box: then resubmit an 'amended' form- I was told to by the PP dept. So whether or not I need PP, now, or then, is n/a.. I assume(?). I have no idea is my answer, like every single facet of this damn process.

 

Why on earth there isn't a step by step guide, even on  the www.. I mean for gods sake. Im so sick of not knowing anything Ive been tempted to just build the sodding thing myself without any experience. Its a 4x4m box built onto a wall. With a lid. A year on now.

[newhome]

There are rules here. You just have to check what you want to do against permitted development rights. Have a look at the link, sketch up what you want to do and post it here for others to advise you. 

 

https://www.planningportal.co.uk/wales_en/info/2/do_you_need_permission

 

 

[zoothorn]

6 hours ago, joe90 said:

I would look for a local builder with a good reputation ( recommendations only), he will give you a good idea of what you can achieve for your money, what needs planning/what does not etc etc.

 

I have one, but he's a heck of alot £more than all the others. As its such a simple box, that tbh I find the idea of even approaching an architect about (tho I had to, to do the original idea.. didn't I? Ive no idea..) this re-evaluated plan, is embarrassing.

 

I have no idea if I needed an architect to begin with, what an 'architectural consultant' is, whether he was the 1st person I was meant to contact (& not a builder). Nothing. Total clutching at straws as to what or how to do.

 

As far as I know, I am past the PP stage. I dont know if this is correct, but in order to proceed (to do what next tho I have no idea) I must assume either I have PP for the ammended box, or its not needed.

Edited June 25, 2018 by zoothorn

[zoothorn]

6 minutes ago, newhome said:

There are rules here. You just have to check what you want to do against permitted development rights. Have a look at the link, sketch up what you want to do and post it here for others to advise you. 

 

https://www.planningportal.co.uk/wales_en/info/2/do_you_need_permission

 

 

 

Ok thanks for this. I cannot though, make sense of..

• If your extension is located within 2 metres of a boundary of your house, the eaves height of the extension cannot exceed 3 metres.
• If your extension is within 2 metres of a boundary of your house, it cannot exceed 4 metres in height.

(Eaves.. are they effectively the gutter line on a pitched roof?). As I said, PP is n/a now.. Ive gone past this stage. I think. Whether or not I need it (I dont think I ever did/ this info above contadicts what a building officer told me.. adding to all the confusion) I have submitted an amended form. I dont think I ever got an answer as that was well over 6 months ago. I just couldn't cope with the process by this stage/ gave up.

 

Now tho- I need this flaming extention made by hook or by crook. I have to somehow try & make sense of how I can get it built.

 

 

[Russell griffiths]

Show us a picture and tell us the area you live and someone will give you a ball park figure of what it will cost. 

[newhome]

2 minutes ago, zoothorn said:

Ok thanks for this. I cannot though, make sense of..

• If your extension is located within 2 metres of a boundary of your house, the eaves height of the extension cannot exceed 3 metres.
• If your extension is within 2 metres of a boundary of your house, it cannot exceed 4 metres in height.

 

So how near to the boundary of your plot is your proposed extension? If the part nearest the boundary is less than 2 metres away the eaves cannot be more than 3M (the edge of the roof overhanging the wall), and the highest part of the roof cannot be more than 4M. 

 

If you don't need PP then it simplifies things as you will only need details for building control and as @Temp said above they may work with you and allow a building notice. It you need PP, even amended PP you will need a decent set of plans. 

 

I'm assuming you aren't detached? If you aren't there is a strong likelihood that your extension will be within 2M of your boundary I imagine. Is it on the back or side? 

 

As I said if you can post a sketch of your proposed plan here it will be easier to advise. Just a freehand sketch would do for now.  

 

 

[Ferdinand]

5 hours ago, zoothorn said:

I have no idea if I needed an architect to begin with, what an 'architectural consultant' is, whether he was the 1st person I was meant to contact (& not a builder). Nothing. Total clutching at straws as to what or how to do.

 

An architect is a regulated professional who is a member of one of the recognised Architectural organisations. The best known is RIBA. The word "Architect" is a regulated term that cannot be uesd by anyone else, though (roughly) similar people from other EU countries get to use it. Chap from Luton was fined 30k in Jan this year for calling him self an Architect illegally: http://www.arb.org.uk/robi-miah-mia-architecture-ordered-pay-nearly-30000-illegally-practising-architect-nr2018/

 

An "architectural consultant"  can be anyone. "Architectural" is not a regulated word. I could trade as one of these, as could anybody else here. Or you. So it all comes down to demonstrated experience.

 

An "Architectural Technician" is somebody with a lower level building design qualification. Often they work as more junior team members on design teams lead by an architect, or independently. Many of us have used them.

 

Normally an architect should have a greater breadth and depth of experience, and supply more "inspiration". That sometimes works, and sometimes does not. Architects sometimes feel expensive, but for their amount of training (7 years in the UK, less elsewhere - eg 3 in Ireland iirc) they do not make that much money compared to say Doctors or Accountants. Celebrity or big-scheme architects usually make their money by having practices with lots of staff rather than purely through massive personal fees. 

 

As you say, for a 4x4x4 box, an architect may not be necessary. I could do that myself, but more likely I would design it to not need PP.

 

As you have discovered it is a bit of a learning curve (read: swamp). But that is our planning system for you.

 

Freehand sketches are good - I do them all the time as it helps me refine my ideas. Or you could use a package such as SketchUp or Sweet Home 3D. I use the latter for plans for small projects,

 

Ferdinand

 

Edited June 26, 2018 by Ferdinand

[zoothorn]

The thing is, I have had an 'architectural consultant' on board from the start as the 1st plan was -2- stories.. I dont think it stupid to have gone to this pro for this more "complicated" designA. The re-designB was the lower story.. basically a 4m sq box + pitched roof: I still had the AC on board (I mean how could I not have?) who then (so far as I was aware the correct thing to do) redesigned it, probably in 15min flat > submitted a 'revamp PP' with my £30 fee. I have no idea whether I've done anything whatsoever correct, in any of the stages/ people to have gone to- anything.

 

As much as Id like to start again, with your help instead, I dont think I can/ I feel stuck with this AC who has already pressed me for 1/3rd his 'final fee' of ~£2K. Then the damn bat survey was an utter ripoff for 2 hrs 'work' @ £650 (2 eco hippies walked once round house, a few pics, then sat in a car for 90mins). He's not bad, or a conartist/ he knows his stuff, & nice guy whom Ive chatted to a good few times (without understanding much of what he says).. but I dont know if he should be on board at all, so, I have a feeling (as he can see Im lost at sea) he just sees me as an easy buck stringing xyz out.

 

So I have the designB. But no word from the PP. I can only get ballpark figs as to cost of designB, I've tried all the builders I can, & none gave me a quote, I'm still waiting 6 months later in effect (now you see why I just cant cope with it all/ whole thing put on backburner).

[newhome]

So ask the architectural consultant for the latest position on the planning permission. Or ask the LA (probably the best idea), or look on their portal for the latest. Maybe it’s already approved if you submitted an amendment? 

 

If you let us know your rough location someone might be able to recommend a builder. Not me as I’m in Scotland. 

 

 

[zoothorn]

Im giving the ArchC chap a wide berth tbh at the mo: last time I heard from him he was a bit uppity demandeing 1/3rd of his final fee.. I will get current PP position, somehow myself.

 

There are only a few builders artound here. Ive approached them, but so busy I can't get them to follow up on a quote without obviously them getting a bit grumpy (as I havent got a clue what Im doing/ how to/ what to do).

 

What is an LA? Calling a building officer again, he said "once Im about to start, ask us to 'come out with a form'..". well I did this before, guy came out, but said "I wasn't ready for a form". for chrissakes man. What "Form" is this?? what on earth do I have to fill out?? do I then have to wait 6 months for this form to be something'ed/ replied to?? this is an absolutely absurd process. You can tell how frustrated I am.

[vfrdave]

On 25/06/2018 at 11:34, divorcingjack said:

Step1: Buy Chocolate digestives.

Dark or milk chocolate is the burning question

[Russell griffiths]

Why are you not paying the architect, you said he had done 2 designs and wants some money, what is the problem has he not done what he was contracted to do,

was it an agreement that you don’t pay until planning is obtained. 

 

I wouldnt avoid him, you may find yourself on the wrong end of a solicitors letter. 

[Jeremy Harris]

For a small extension then the process is really pretty straightforward.

 

 Check the planning portal site, here: https://www.planningportal.co.uk/info/200234/home_improvement_projects as it has a fairly easy to follow guide that takes you through the process step by step.

 

If you don't understand some of the questions, ask here and we'll help to guide you through it.

[zoothorn]

Thanks all for the replies- I'll go over again once Ive rethought the whole idea. As simple (a box addition) it is, its still overwhelming for me to understand how it could get built as the complexities of abc are just too much for me.

 

Eg, if I can't establish where the road starts/ where my boundary relative to it actually is (by way of a property map I paid for which is so vague/ small as to be totally useless) & these exact boundaries are anyway are vague being wales.. then I cannot get past step 1 to even establish if I need, or even needed PP to start with.

 

I'll have to start afresh next year- I just can't cope & feel totally lost.. not the correct place to be whatsoever to evaluate the 2nd biggest £outlay in my life. I need to be sure on what is needed, sure on the builder, & sure on the design. I currently cannot tick even one of these 3 boxes.

 

 

[Temp]

How much was the quote for the two storey?

Did it have a pitched, tiled roof?

Does the single storey design have a pitched or flat roof?

How many square feet?

Any known complications like building over drains?

 

Why not call or write to the planning officer and ask for an update on your resubmission? Quote him the planning application number. It's now 8 weeks since your original post and your application went in before that so they should have made some progress. There maybe correspondence between him and the Architect on the planning web site.

 

Sounds like the Architect has stopped chasing them as you haven't paid him. That wont help speed things up. You may have to be get a bit proactive. We were living abroad when we applied to build in the UK. Our application dragged on for nine months before decided our Architect wasn't proactive enough. I had to start arranging meetings myself, book aircraft flights, hire cars and hotels to bash heads together.  

 

 

[Temp]

Would moving house be easier?