Immersum / 4eco cease trading

[ragg987]

Just found this out when trying to obtain a VAT receipt from them. From website:

"It is with great sadness that we must announce the impending closure of 4eco Limited and consequent immediate cease of trading"

Wonder what this might mean to the website that monitors and logs the energy diverted by the immersun device - disadvantage of third-party hosted websites is that the service relies on that party.

[Jeremy Harris]

I suspect they may be another victim in the downturn in PV installations as a consequence of the poor management of the FIT subsidy.  If 4Eco have folded, when I think they were probably the market leader, then it doesn't bode well for all the other manufacturers of these bits of kit.  It rather makes me glad I chose to design and build my own energy diverter unit, from off-the-shelf parts, and to publish the code and design openly, as at least I can keep it supported for as long as I am able.

It highlights another point that has been made before with regard to web-connected functionality, that anyone who uses such a capability is at the mercy of whoever provides the web-based service.  We saw the same happen with a home automation produce a while ago, when their web service closed it rendered all their former customers home automation systems unworkable.

There's a lot to be said for either not relying on web connectivity at all for essential kit in a house, or if you do, opt for an open source system so that there is less chance of a single-point-of-failure.

[ragg987]

It is worrying about reliance on third parties for this type of service - I have fully embraced google's vision of "in the cloud" and keep all my emails, contacts, photos, documents etc (including my self build project documents) with them. So if they were to suddenly stop the service where would it leave me...

[TerryE]

8 minutes ago, ragg987 said:

I have fully embraced google's vision of "in the cloud" and keep all my emails, contacts, photos, documents etc (including my self build project documents) with them. So if they were to suddenly stop the service where would it leave me...

See How Apple and Amazon Security Flaws Led to My Epic Hacking for a salutary case of where this can all go dreadfully wrong.   Use cloud services by all means, but I strongly recommend that you keep a local copy of everything on your laptop or PC and back this up to a physical HDD. preferably LAN/ Wifi attached in some out of the way cupboard / garage.  That way you guard against loosing everything in the case of theft, fire or a single device failure. 

[IanR]

40 minutes ago, ragg987 said:

 I have fully embraced google's vision of "in the cloud" and keep all my emails, contacts, photos, documents etc (including my self build project documents) with them. So if they were to suddenly stop the service where would it leave me...

Download the desktop Google Drive app so that your PC keeps a synced copy of what Google is holding on their Servers for you.

[Jeremy Harris]

And never forget that the companies running cloud data storage have quite a lot of control over your data, quite apart from just storing it for you, and it is definitely not private, in any sense of that word that I understand.  The Ts and Cs of a lot of these services make for interesting reading (as do the Windows 10 Ts and Cs).  In effect you're allowing anything you store on someone else's server to be accessed and used by pretty much anyone, if they have the intent or the power you've given them.

They are undoubtedly useful when used on the move, but my view is that you should never put a single document on any cloud storage system that you wouldn't be prepared to see printed across the front page of a newspaper.  My personal solution is a very tiny OTG compatible,128Gb USB drive, that is hardly bigger than the plug.  That seems big enough to store any amount of stuff I might need to access on the move, and allows me access when there's no mobile signal, too.  All I have to do is plug it in and sync it every day or so, just to make sure it's got the latest, backed-up, versions of everything on.

Terry's advice to keep a local copy is particularly apt when you look at the data loss caused by Ebuild being shut down, virtually overnight.  All attachments to all posts and blog entries were immediately made inaccessible, making the read-only, post-content only, current status of that forum limited in its usefulness.  I certainly learned a hard lesson; it took me a few tens of hours to recover 41 blog entries and find all the dozens of attachments and photos, some of which were saved in such a safe place that it took me hours to find them............. 

I now keep two versions of the blog, a backed-up local version on Wordpress, and the live version on here, just in case.

As for Google, having peeked at just a little of the user content, user location and data snooping that is built-in to Android, that I discovered accidentally when I decided to change the default version of Android on my tablet with the open-source Cyanogenmod version, I have serious concerns about the amount of semi-hidden spying that goes on by many "free" software or shared web services. 

The amount of data on you, your usage, location, browsing history, email contacts, ISP, etc that is routinely passed back to Google for them to use and make money from by Android, even with all the privacy options stuff set to not send data, surprised even me, and I'm already pretty cynical about these things.  Curiously, not having any Google services installed or running in Android has only three effects I can see.  One is that the tablet is a lot faster in our poor signal area (probably because less bandwidth is taken up by Google stuff talking to Google servers).  The second is that the Google Play store isn't available, which is a minor inconvenience, as you can side load known-to-be-good open source apps as easily and safely as using the Play Store and often a lot faster.  The third is that Google Maps/Earth won't run without sending data on what you're doing back to Google, which is no problem because there's an open source version that's actually a lot better, not least of which because it allows you to keep local copies of open mapping project maps on your device, as well as getting them live online, so it allows you to have mapping and GPS guidance when there's no mobile signal (a common problem around here).

[SteamyTea]

I have slowly stopped using cloud services.  The only thing I found them useful for was sharing large file anyway.

It is worth remembering that you can use a 'zipping' application that supports encryption and only upload those files.  Can save a bit of space too.

[Jeremy Harris]

32 minutes ago, SteamyTea said:

I have slowly stopped using cloud services.  The only thing I found them useful for was sharing large file anyway.

It is worth remembering that you can use a 'zipping' application that supports encryption and only upload those files.  Can save a bit of space too.

Remembering to zip and encrypt files is a pretty good way to use these services, if you need to, and not one I'd thought of.  I'll have a look at the options for doing this with different platforms later, as it might be another work-around for the inability of Apple devices to talk to a home network and file share.  If there is an open source iOS app that will zip and encrypt, and vice versa, that's also available for Linux and Android, then it might be a fairly good way of making stuff accessible to and from my wife's iPad (the only major problem I have with her love of the thing - it just does not communicate with, or transfer files with, anything non-Apple at all easily).

How do free cloud services react to you only using them for zipped and encrypted file storage that they can't look at, I wonder?  

It also wouldn't work with Windows 10, as that accesses all your data stored on anything that's connected to a Windows 10 machine before/after encryption/decryption, and sends stuff back to Microsoft servers.  Microsoft have effectively bypassed file encryption with Win 10, by building in this ability for a third party (nominally Microsoft, but the Ts and Cs for Win 10 make it clear that it's not exclusively Microsoft who have access) to look at decrypted data into the OS.   It does this with all the privacy controls set - it's in the Ts and Cs that you must allow Microsoft free access to all your files, emails etc, and it has been shown by third parties (using packet sniffing) that even with all the privacy controls enabled data are still sent to Microsoft servers all the time the machine is on and connected to the web.

[SteamyTea]

There is StuffIt for the MAC, and iZip, not sure if they encrypt though.  I use a cracked copy of Winzip and portable 7-Zip, the encryption/decryption works both ways between them.

No one has said anything about me uploading predominately encrypted zip files.  I use Dropbox, OneDrive, Google Drive and used to use ADrive till the stopped the free 50 GB service.

 

FTPS is really the way to go as you can do incremental transfers, but just can't find a free service.  I have some FTP space via my ISP, but think it is only a couple of MB, so useless really.

I should really look at my web hosting provider and see what they offer as I think I can FTPS into them.

[Barney12]

I bought a Synology NAS and have never looked back. Everything on devices backed up to one central point on RAID volumes. Mac and Windoze access no issue. Various IOS apps for numerous functions. But in addition the ability to link to cloud services for backup of critical files. Full remote access too, it really is worth every penny. 

Mines this one https://www.amazon.co.uk/Synology-DiskStation-DS215j-Desktop-Enclosure/dp/B00OZ0CTAU/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1467838216&sr=8-1&keywords=synology+ds215 but there is a newer model available now.

 

[SteamyTea]

I see it uses 7 W in hibernation mode.  That is more than my laptop uses in normal usage mode.

[TerryE]

I personally just don't trust anything to do with Win10: It's closed source, and who knows what back door deals M$ have done with the NSA, etc..  If you set a password on an Open-Office document then it is encrypted using AES which is pretty strong, and some of the ZIP variants such as 7-zip use AES which allows you to collaborate on the basis of a shared secret.

However, in reality, I feel that the main risk is data loss due to system or device failure, or malicious attack.  There is a second issue of big data trawling which is irritating,  As to theft or warranted search of personal data, I am not too concerned about this, personally.  If the security services really want my data then they can get it by legal means or by physical ones (a simple break-in), so I see little point in being paranoid about this. The biggest single step in protecting my data is using a Linux platform rather than WinX, IMO. 

[Jeremy Harris]

17 minutes ago, TerryE said:

I personally just don't trust anything to do with Win10: It's closed source, and who knows what back door deals M$ have done with the NSA, etc..  If you set a password on an Open-Office document then it is encrypted using AES which is pretty strong, and some of the ZIP variants such as 7-zip use AES which allows you to collaborate on the basis of a shared secret.

However, in reality, I feel that the main risk is data loss due to system or device failure, or malicious attack.  There is a second issue of big data trawling which is irritating,  As to theft or warranted search of personal data, I am not too concerned about this, personally.  If the security services really want my data then they can get it by legal means or by physical ones (a simple break-in), so I see little point in being paranoid about this. The biggest single step in protecting my data is using a Linux platform rather than WinX, IMO. 

Microsoft have had arrangements with our government where they have provided the source code for all their products for years.  The purpose is to allow exploits and it has been going on for at least ten years that I know of, and I doubt very much that the arrangement has changed.  If they do this with us, then it is a dead cert that they do it with the US agencies as well.  They aren't alone, I know there are arrangements with other companies to allow access, the only company I am pretty sure doesn't do this is Apple, and I only suspect that this is the case because our old head of IT security (who, amongst other things, was responsible for penetration testing the secure networks) used to always recommend that I get a Mac, as at least then it would only be Apple looking at what I was doing most of the time.

256 bit AES is plenty secure enough, and if you're running reasonable secure software on a reasonably secure operating system, then creating an AES encrypted document is OK.  The problem with Win 10 is that Microsoft have openly admitted that it can intercept the decrypted document, at either end, because win 10 has been designed to give Microsoft full access to every file on the machine (and they do make this clear in the Ts an Cs, but rely on the fact that few people read them all before clicking on "install"................

It's data trawling that is my main concern, it's irritating and I consider it to be an invasion of my privacy.  Like you I run Linux machines, with the exception of one legacy Windows machine so I can run Autocad.  99% of stuff I do on the web is on a Linux machine, like this laptop that's running Mint.

[SteamyTea]

Be interesting when Theresa May is PM, she likes the idea of governments spying on their citizens.

I think she wanted to outlaw strong encryption, such as AES, part of the reason I use it.

[Roundtuit]

Just dragging this back to the original post, does anyone have any experience with an alternative solution please? (Off-the-shelf; ain't never gonna make one...).

 

I've also noticed that although their website looks 'live' the company I was talking to about pv appears to have ceased trading (Assured Solar); not sure how big they were, but they had a reasonable presence at some of the 'Bulid it live' shows.

[dogman]

hi

i have an early version of the immersun which works ok, Was looking at a new model when i found out they had ceased trading 

 

my solar engineer now uses Solar iBoost.

http://www.marlec.co.uk/product/solar-iboost/?v=79cba1185463

Not had a good look at them yet

 

We get a whole tank of hot water when the sun shines from our Immersun and sometimes our second tank gets a boost

[Declan52]

I have the solar iboost for my system. Not much to say about it. Works away and diverts the electric with no issues to date so far.

[gravelld]

The manufacturer of my diverter went bust quite a while ago - http://smarthomeenergy.co.uk/goodbye-energeno-diy-kyoto-wattson-0

 

Still works though. Cross fingers I don't get any other issues!

[NSS]

I was going to have a Solar iBoost fitted but I spoke to my solar installers today and they said they were going to have to fit a PowerDiverter instead as, apparently, a recent 'update' to the iBoost has resulted in a problem if they are fitted where an ASHP is also installed. Claims they simply go pop in such situations.

[jack]

I don't think our ASHP has turned on for several months.  We get a full 250L of 80 deg C water every day from our 8.5kW solar + immersun.  Shame they've stopped trading as their kit is really quite good.  

 

Sometimes by mid morning the whole tank is done and it just sits there sending several kW back into the grid!  I've seriously been eyeing up a small plug-in car to replace our current runabout.  I imagine there'd be almost no recharging costs for a good 4+ months of the year.

[Roundtuit]

Thanks all.  I've looked at the iBoost, but it doesn't seem to lend itself to a leccy meter in a boundary box.  I do like the look of this though (and the price)..

 

http://solarimmersion.co.uk

[PeterW]

I looked at one of these as it came recommended by a local PV installer - never fitted PV so can't say how good though !

 

http://www.intelligent-immersion.co.uk/

[Stones]

4 hours ago, PeterW said:

I looked at one of these as it came recommended by a local PV installer - never fitted PV so can't say how good though !

 

http://www.intelligent-immersion.co.uk/

 

I fitted one of those in my last house.  

 

Certainly did the job and was cheaper than anything else I could find at the time.  The main reason I went for that particular unit was that in addition to your normal diversion, it had a no volt relay in it meaning you could activate an additional appliance when you reached a predetermined level of excess generation.  In my case our EAHP had an electronically controlled 2.67kW immersion which we switched on when we hit excess generation of 2.5kW and off when it dropped below 2.  The owner of the company was very helpful and did all the programming / coding required to get the hysterisis correct.  

 

My father bought one of these at the same time as me and hasn't had any problems / has piping hot DHW throughout the summer months courtesy of diverted excess PV.