How respected are Architectural Technologists?

[epsilonGreedy]

In my quest for Building Control drawings I have ended up with a quote from a firm of Architectural Technologists, their fee for the drawings is 70% cheaper than a proper architect.

 

A bit of Googling leads to the Chartered Institute of Architectural Technologists created back in the 1960's. I have found 5 minutes on the phone with a CIAT bloke vastly more informative than dealing with a proper architect.

 

Are CIAT members professionally up to the task of producing drawings for Building Control? 

[joe90]

I have a bit of a problem with architects ( last nights repeat of grand designs in Ireland being a very good case in point) . I find them to be a bit “ arty” I,e, they ( sometimes) want you to build their dream. I am in the position that I knew exactly what I wanted just needed someone to put it on CAD and make sure it passed up to date regs, I think architectural technicians can do this without the need to “dream” . Perhaps I am being unfair but this is my opinion.

[jack]

I don't think that's unfair. If you know exactly what you want, why pay a premium?

[Hecateh]

My son is an architects technician - his view(obviously biased) is that architects dream up wonderful schemes and it is the technician that has to make it work. 

Having said that I only found out at the end that my architect wasn't a full architect but a technician and she was rubbish.

[jack]

I will add that a good architect will not only not build their dream, they'll help you find your way to your dream. You then have to hope that they're also one of those architects that is technically and costs savvy enough to allow the dream to built at something like the budget you told them at the start.

 

Finding such an architect is part of the problem.

[PeterW]

Depends how you mean respected and by whom..??

 

In most medium to large architectural practises you will find a number of ATs doing the core drawing and draughting for major contracts and they are overseen by a senior architect or partner. They do a very good job and are highly skilled at what they do. 

 

Due to RIBA kicking off and making architecture a monopoly for them under the AoP, they command a premium in a lot of instances and usually cite insurance costs, qualifications, etc as  the reason. ATs have less of these overheads and therefore can charge less. 

 

Its horses for courses really - I’ve seen stunning designs from ATs for £2,000 and utter dross from architects who have charged 10 times that. You pays your money etc etc 

[vivienz]

The firm that we have used are all ATs.  They did the design and are working their socks off now to make sure that the design and all proportions are retained whilst incorporating an MBC passive style build, with all its super-thick walls, for the building regs.  They weren't the cheapest of the ATs around here, but they were competitive and certainly much cheaper than the firms of architects that I interviewed for the job.  Architects around here seem to add an additional Sandbanks premium to the RIBA one and they are VERY expensive, in my view.  I'm not saying that they may not represent value for money for the right client, but I didn't judge myself to be that person.

[Ryan]

my 2 cents :)

 

I was just having this conversation in the podcast today with a surveyor... they do a lot of what an architect does if not more in some respects. One common thread I am noticing through all the interviews is the importance of a good client brief. Understand what you want from your professional first (and some times more important what you don't want) and then go out to a number of different people. Pick the one that best fits your brief and your personality (the latter is more important for large long term developments). Then it does not matter if they are an architect, surveyor, technologists. 

 

a good professional should save you time, money and above all stress/risk a cheap is likely to do the opposite. 

 

ryan

 

 

 

[Ferdinand]

3 hours ago, Hecateh said:

My son is an architects technician - his view(obviously biased) is that architects dream up wonderful schemes and it is the technician that has to make it work. 

Having said that I only found out at the end that my architect wasn't a full architect but a technician and she was rubbish.

Technician may be different from Technologist.

[Hecateh]

1 minute ago, Ferdinand said:

Technician may be different from Technologist.

True

 

[epsilonGreedy]

17 minutes ago, Ferdinand said:

Technician may be different from Technologist.

 

 

The institute's web site uses both words, from 2002 an Architectural Technician is the pro qualification recognized by CIAT. For some reason they rebranded themselves as technologists in 1994, perhaps they are trying to compete with CORGI/GAS SAFE for name changes.

 

https://ciat.org.uk/about-us/history.html

 

[Hecateh]

 

24 minutes ago, epsilonGreedy said:

 

The institute's web site uses both words, from 2002 an Architectural Technician is the pro qualification recognized by CIAT. For some reason they rebranded themselves as technologists in 1994, perhaps they are trying to compete with CORGI/GAS SAFE for name changes.

 

https://ciat.org.uk/about-us/history.html

 

I thought the words had similar meanings.  However I've never heard my son refer to himself as a technologist so was happy to accept they may be different, or maybe have a different qualification

Edited April 25, 2018 by Hecateh

[Hecateh]

34 minutes ago, Hecateh said:

 

I thought the words had similar meanings.  However I've never heard my son refer to himself as a technologist so was happy to accept they may be different, or maybe have a different qualification

To me it sounds like one of Maureen Lipman's 'Ologies' from the 80's 

 

Edited April 25, 2018 by Hecateh

[Ferdinand]

My brief view.

 

A competent AT should do a good job.

 

A competent architect should add a measure of inspiration.

 

A client using an AT probably needs to supply that inspiration

 

A client using an architect needs to direct and ground the Architect's inspiration.

 

As Peter says, you pays your money and... hopefully after taking the time to learn your role in the dance with whoever you choose, and to have learnt to choose the right partner in the first place.

 

A lot of spadework first makes for a better tree later!

 

F

 

[Triassic]

I used an architect. She took our design brief and produced hand drawn conceptual drawings which we tweaked, once we were happy with the concept she passed the drawings to an architectural technician who produced the planning and building control drawings. We neve4 saw her again! If I were doing it again I’d go to a good Architectural Technician and save a lot of money. 

[Hecateh]

26 minutes ago, Triassic said:

I used an architect. She took our design brief and produced hand drawn conceptual drawings which we tweaked, once we were happy with the concept she passed the drawings to an architectural technician who produced the planning and building control drawings. We neve4 saw her again! If I were doing it again I’d go to a good Architectural Technician and save a lot of money. 

Basically what my son said

 

And you can easily get architects who are pretty boring and ATs who have vision but not the focus, commitment or maybe even finances to do the full training.  

My son didn't do mine because

1  the potential for falling out was too great

2 He lives in Barnsley and was working in Manchester.  out at 6 - back at 7

3 (the worst reason) I thought I needed an architect and thought I had one  but she was an AT too - and one with neither vision nor practical ideas.  

 

She didn't tell me that the slope would cause big issues. 

She did say my budget of 100k was reasonable. ( Now coming in at 150k)

She didn't plan the essential gravity feed to sewer connection that the water board insist on but planned to pump straight into the chamber.

Her design required sky hooks, 

She told me I could not have an understairs loo rather than working out how it could be achieved. or explaining why it couldn't

If she thought something I had requested was not possible, rather than discussing how it could be achieved (or why it couldn't) she just ignored it.

Her plans stated an escape route was necessary for a ground floor bedroom but not for a first floor one.  

When we got planning permission and I told her my builder was ready to start she then told me she was away for 2 weeks so everything would have to be delayed until she came back.  She didn't tell me that there were other issues to be sorted before building could be started and that building was likely to be delayed by another 2 months at least

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[SteamyTea]

My views on Architects are well documented on here and on the old eBuild site.

It never takes long for an architect to point out that they 'trained' for 7 years and the term 'Architect' is protected.

And they just love the use (mis)use of language.

There are a couple of architects on here that may like to comment.

[ProDave]

The big difference for me was I found an AT that would do just the work I wanted (buildings regs and construction drawings) and no more, for a fair fee based on the actual amount of work he was doing.

 

All I got from "architects" was an offer of  standard package of work, with the cost being based on their (over inflated) estimate of the build costs, and they would not negotiate.

 

I am not saying architects are "bad" just that their business model and the way they price their work, did not suit what I wanted.

[CC45]

@ProDave  exactly what we found.  Our AT was spot on.

[caliwag]

My twopenn'orth...I trained as a technician, HNC + with IOB exams for 10 years, and then on deciding 'there must be more to architecture than this!' studied and taught architecture and interior design for several years. To be honest, I probably became a better technician, but working with Fosters and Arup. Retired now however (if you can ever retire from architecture!)

 

Never overlook what a good architect can 'bring to the table'. I put a book together (methods, definitions, references, reviews and thoughts called 'self build home...the last thing you need is an architect', plainly not knocking architects but appealing to people, self-builders, custom and bespoke builders and extenders and renovators, to explore their needs, wants, must-haves and all, before the professionals fee-clock starts ticking. Simple as that!