newhome Posted February 22, 2018 Author Share Posted February 22, 2018 There is an in line water softener (no idea if it works) but I think I’m in an area with pretty soft water (never any scale in the kettle) so not sure whether things have scaled up. The photo was when it was being being installed hence the extra parts on top. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferdinand Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 (edited) @newhome I am not sure if you have posted them but there a couple of relavant posts on your blog from 2010. Boiler with cover off http://bordershousenewbuild.blogspot.co.uk/2010/03/march-2010-we-have-front-door.html#comment-form About UFH. Includes piccies of a couple of manifolds. http://bordershousenewbuild.blogspot.co.uk/2010/02/february-2010-underfloor-heating-oh-and.html F Edited February 22, 2018 by Ferdinand 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newhome Posted February 22, 2018 Author Share Posted February 22, 2018 4 minutes ago, Ferdinand said: @newhome I am not sure if you have posted them but there a couple of relavant of posts on your blog from 2010. Ah yes. I don't think the plumber knew what he was doing with this type of system either so it was like the blind leading the blind between him and my hubby. And no, it wasn't bloody ready when I moved out of the rental flat! I think the moral of this sorry tale is, don't over engineer things if you don't have the knowledge to see them through properly. My hubby liked to over engineer everything however as he saw it as a challenge. Unfortunately this system defeated him! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nickfromwales Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 1 hour ago, newhome said: There is an in line water softener (no idea if it works) but I think I’m in an area with pretty soft water (never any scale in the kettle) so not sure whether things have scaled up. The photo was when it was being being installed hence the extra parts on top. Are those two vertical lever taps ( left and right ) in line with the pipe now eh ? They're off in that pic. The bottom one ( centre ) should be still off as per that pic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nickfromwales Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 The green thing is the solar thermal circulator ( aka pump ) which pulls the hot water down from the panels and sends the cool water back up. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newhome Posted February 22, 2018 Author Share Posted February 22, 2018 1 minute ago, Nickfromwales said: The green thing is the solar thermal circulator ( aka pump ) which pulls the hot water down from the panels and sends the cool water back up. Or not as the case may be in my house . Thanks. I'm all set for the test. Just need to know: UFH pump off or on (on will drain hot water out PDQ) - it's still at about 40 at the mo or it was about an hour ago. Solar heating off or on? I know it doesn't appear to heat the water but it's whiring away in there today with the pump thing hot. Was actually sunny in Scotland . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nickfromwales Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 Everything off to start so we can find out if the cylinder stats ( 1,2 & 3 ) are doing what they're supposed to do. If the UFH will cool it down faster then knock the big boiler switch off and run the UFH until the TS gets to around 20oC. Then start the tests. ? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newhome Posted February 22, 2018 Author Share Posted February 22, 2018 10 minutes ago, Nickfromwales said: Are those two vertical lever taps ( left and right ) in line with the pipe now eh ? They're off in that pic. The bottom one ( centre ) should be still off as per that pic. Nope they are in the same position as the photo so not sure if they've never been on or have been switched off at some point! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newhome Posted February 22, 2018 Author Share Posted February 22, 2018 43 minutes ago, Ferdinand said: I am not sure if you have posted them but there a couple of relavant of posts on your blog from 2010. Also, thanks for alerting me back to the blog as I noticed that hubby had his full address in his profile! Have been able to log on and amend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nickfromwales Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 10 minutes ago, newhome said: Nope they are in the same position as the photo so not sure if they've never been on or have been switched off at some point! @JSHarris. Can you advise on any possible risks with bringing that 'softener' on line after so long please? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeremy Harris Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 51 minutes ago, newhome said: I think the moral of this sorry tale is, don't over engineer things if you don't have the knowledge to see them through properly. My hubby liked to over engineer everything however as he saw it as a challenge. Unfortunately this system defeated him! I started out making the systems in our house like this, with custom microcontrollers looking after stuff. A year or so later, I realised that if I wasn't around, no one would be able to work out how on earth anything worked. I spent a lot of time converting everything back to standard off the shelf parts and drawing up complete manuals for everything that wasn't covered by a product manual. I still have the temptation to add more sophisticated and complex controls, but I rein it in. I'm gradually coming around to the old aircraft designers motto "Simplificate and add lightness"............... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeremy Harris Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 2 minutes ago, Nickfromwales said: @JSHarris. Can you advise on any possible risks with bringing that 'softener' on line after so long please? Doesn't look like a softener to me, it looks like a pair of water filters. One may be a fine filter, probably 5µ, the other may be something like a carbon block filter, to take out chlorine and any other things that might taint the water. The only way to tell is to isolate them, switch to bypass (which they may already be switched to anyway) and unscrew the filter case (may need a big plastic hollow spanner that should have been supplied with the filters) and see what's in them. If one is a carbon filter it will be well out of date, so will have to be replaced (they have a life of around 6 months between replacements, mainly driven by their tendency to grow bugs inside the filter after that period of time). Once we know what's in there I can advise further, on what to fit by way of replacement cartridges. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newhome Posted February 22, 2018 Author Share Posted February 22, 2018 3 minutes ago, JSHarris said: I'm gradually coming around to to old aircraft designers motto "Simplificate and add lightness"............... Yep, absolutely! You never like the thought of not being around to deal with things but ultimately as my case proves shit does sometimes happen and as my hubby was into that sort of technology I never got involved in any of it. He had said that he would try to document various things for me 'when the time came' but when it came down to it he didn't want to admit when that time was, and then he became too sick to do it. Document everything as you go as it's then ultra easy either to recap or pass the documents onto others which will cover moving house too, not just more tragic circumstances! I work in IT and we use KIS a lot (keep it simple), but then we also use FUBAR and SNAFU a lot too . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeremy Harris Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 I've been drawing up things like wiring and pipework diagrams, laminating them in plastic and either putting them in the house folder or, in the case of our water treatment plant room, sticking them on to the inside of the door. That way anyone should be able to work out how things are wired and plumbed. The other thing I've done is put proper printed labels on everything, from stating the fuse rating on every switched fused outlet, through labelling every single circuit breaker to adding labels on all the pipes, the various bits of plumbing kit etc, together with the normal operating range marked on all gauges with red and green tape pointers. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newhome Posted February 22, 2018 Author Share Posted February 22, 2018 18 minutes ago, JSHarris said: Doesn't look like a softener to me, it looks like a pair of water filters. One may be a fine filter, probably 5µ, the other may be something like a carbon block filter, to take out chlorine and any other things that might taint the water. The only way to tell is to isolate them, switch to bypass (which they may already be switched to anyway) and unscrew the filter case (may need a big plastic hollow spanner that should have been supplied with the filters) and see what's in them. If one is a carbon filter it will be well out of date, so will have to be replaced (they have a life of around 6 months between replacements, mainly driven by their tendency to grow bugs inside the filter after that period of time). Once we know what's in there I can advise further, on what to fit by way of replacement cartridges. Once I get the invoices back from HMRC I will dig out the invoice and see what it says. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newhome Posted February 22, 2018 Author Share Posted February 22, 2018 On 2/21/2018 at 17:30, Nickfromwales said: 1) Roll your sleeves up and shout very loudly at your boiler and TS for approximately 3 minutes, only stopping to breathe in again. That'll reset everything and show it that you mean business, probably. When done, read all the above again which will allow your blood pressure to return to normal again. You'll feel better then. 2) Turn off the big chunky switch to the boiler so it goes dead. 3) Turn off all the time-clocks and turn down all the ROOM / HOUSE stats. 4) Turn the 3 TS cylinder stats to their lowest positions, marking first with a pencil their current setting. 5) Wait for the TS to go cold. 6) Switch the boiler back on, report what it does for the first 15 mins. It should cycle for maybe 2 minutes and then go into standby, whilst it does a self-diagnostic, or simply do nothing at all. It should not run and heat up the white PHE, and the silver pump for the white PHE should not run. The system should now simply be sitting in standby aka 'holiday mode'. 7) Assuming the above went accordingly ( lol ), turn on all the heating time controls you can find, but leave all ROOM / HOUSE stats set to mimimum, including the one some cock has fitted in a cupboard. Do NOT switch the black immersion heater on. 8) Turn TS cylinder stat 3 to 65oC. Report what happens for the first 5 minutes. The boiler should kick in, the pump and PHE adjacent should run and all get hot and the TS should then proceed to heat up entirely until the cylinder stat tells the boiler to switch off again, maybe an hour or so, maybe a bit less / more. This is the critical bit which will identify if the wiring is in order or not. The boiler should, at this point, be receiving instruction to heat until stat 3 tells it otherwise. If not the most recent pipe butcher has fecked something up whilst charging you for the pleasure. 9) If the boiler does not kick in within the 5 min period, turn up the stat in the cupboard and see if that has been put in line with the other controls, making sure its partnered time-clock is deffo on too. 10) If the boiler still doesn't kick in, turn up TS stat 2 to 65oC. 11) If the boiler still doesn't kick in, turn up TS stat 3 to 65oC. 12) If the boiler still doesn't kick in, turn the ROOM / HOUSE stats back up and set things back to how you had them. 13) Note when the heating / whatever came on during the above and file your report here and we'll go from there. Right, the TS is at 20 so I'm ready to rock. As a point of note it dropped 10 degrees from 50 to 40 with the boiler and UFH pump switched off between 9am and 6.30pm so 9.5 hours. Between 6.30pm and 8.15pm it dropped from 40 degrees to 20 degrees with the pump running (but all room thermostats switched to 'frost'). The top green pump marked UP became red hot with the pump running. I know cos my hand says so still! It wasn't that hot earlier and the 'DOWN' one is about the same temperature as before. The 3 TS cylinder stats are turned down to zero. The top one was at 80 and the other 2 were 70. The number 70 is ringed on all 3 so I imagine they were all supposed to be set to 70. TS is at 20 so am I now ready for number 6? I can switch the boiler back on but it won't attempt to fire up and heat as only heats when the 'cock in the cupboard' time switch is set, and that is set to off just now. Do you need me to leave that off @Nickfromwales when I first switch the boiler back on and wait the 15 mins? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterW Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 9 minutes ago, newhome said: The top green pump marked UP became red hot with the pump running. I know cos my hand says so still! It wasn't that hot earlier and the 'DOWN' one is about the same temperature as before. That sounds like there are no zones open and someone has overridden the interlock between pump and timer .... timer says UFH but pump should only fire when the circuits call for heat. @Nickfromwales if this has a Heatmiser system have you got the wiring instructions for the control box ..? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteamyTea Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 I was thinking of having an early night, but this is getting as good as the real Apollo 13 mission . https://www.jsc.nasa.gov/history/mission_trans/AS13_CM.PDF 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nickfromwales Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 Ok, good stuff. If you feel confident the boiler will only run when you turn the cock-clock back on then go for it in the order you feel best familiar with to achieve the 'test-fire'. 5 mins should suffice, just to be sure nothing else calls for heat and the system is definitely in standby. Then we go forward into the unknown....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nickfromwales Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 @PeterW ive nowt for the heatmiser....never fitted one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Declan52 Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 I have all heatmiser in mine. All the stats are linked to a control unit which is then linked to the valves on each loop on the manifold. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newhome Posted February 22, 2018 Author Share Posted February 22, 2018 7 minutes ago, Nickfromwales said: Ok, good stuff. If you feel confident the boiler will only run when you turn the cock-clock back on then go for it in the order you feel best familiar with to achieve the 'test-fire'. 5 mins should suffice, just to be sure nothing else calls for heat and the system is definitely in standby. Then we go forward into the unknown....... Boiler is back on. Ran for a couple of mins. Set temperature is still 70, return and flow temperature were both 33, flow rate was 21 l/min, power consumption 0. Then after a couple of mins it is in sleep mode with flow rate now 0 l/min and other settings the same as before. So all to plan (I think!). Now moving onto 7 ....... the only heating time controls I know about are the 2 that the cock put in so both of those are going on (one will fire the boiler, the other will switch on the UFH pump). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nickfromwales Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 1 minute ago, newhome said: Now moving onto 7 ....... the only heating time controls I know about are the 2 that the cock put in so both of those are going on (one will fire the boiler, the other will switch on the UFH pump). The boiler shouldn't fire if the 3 cylinder stats are turned down. If it does, we have a problem. Give it a whirl... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tennentslager Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 Best post in ages...the value of the forum writ large? No spoilers please, I wanna know who done it... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nickfromwales Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 Ok, ill just add, if the ambient isn't low enough to allow the cylinder stats to have 'clicked' off, this won't work....its just popped into my head sorry. When you turned the cylinder stats down, did you hear a click as they switched off? My bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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