mike2016 Posted February 5, 2018 Share Posted February 5, 2018 Hi, I've been in touch with my Architect about the next stage of planning/tendering for the build. I expected to go after the timber frame and window quotes myself but was surprised to hear that the Architect normally leaves that to the contractors to sort out. That means I'd have no say in what timber frame company is used and may not even be told which they are quoting for! My fear is I'd get a pile of lemons very easily and regret it. Is this normal and is it possible to provide a "preferred" list of companies to use for aspects of the tender? Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichS Posted February 5, 2018 Share Posted February 5, 2018 It's more than "possible" Just tell him that you will decide who the suppliers are for everything. It's your build and your money, end off. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
le-cerveau Posted February 5, 2018 Share Posted February 5, 2018 You can specify what you want. I you want a particular TF company then include that in the Tender. In my Tender I specified the Windows, ICF system, ASHP, Boiler, Shower Fittings, Baths, and gave examples of others. (Some of these I had already contracted (Windows and ICF)) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ragg987 Posted February 5, 2018 Share Posted February 5, 2018 As above, if you have preferences for any of the stuff you go out for tender on you need to make it known as input to the tender document. Of course is a bit 'chicken and egg' here, you may have a preference based on discussions etc but until the prices come in you cannot decide. So might be worth getting options for this. One question - how will the architect complete the detailing until the TF has been selected? I feel the TF supplier should be chosen prior to detailing, then architect has to coordinate with them to get it right. Else you might have to solve more problems on site. I had a few discussions with my architect about this during our spec phase (after which they stopped providing services apart from a few ad-hoc queries on an hourly charge). We had to balance a too-specific spec vs too-generic which would bea easier to cost up but give incomplete build costs until much later. In our case I split the package completely and went out on tender for various bits. So in our case we had quotes direct from TF and Windows, supply and fit. Worked well and I paid a Project Manager to coordinate the packages until we had a water-tight shell, then I managed it from that point onwards with my main builder plus some trades I contracted direct - e.g. plastering and paint, plumbing, electrics. The key items I selected prior to detail design (and hence prior to full specification became available) were slab / basement / drainage, timberframe, windows, MVHR - these are intrinsic to the detailing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToughButterCup Posted February 5, 2018 Share Posted February 5, 2018 3 hours ago, ragg987 said: [...] Worked well and I paid a Project Manager to coordinate the packages until we had a water-tight shell, then I managed it from that point onwards with my main builder plus some trades I contracted direct [...] If I had my time all over again I'd have...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProDave Posted February 5, 2018 Share Posted February 5, 2018 My first build worked a bit like this, only I didn't use an architect, I used a local company of builders to "build me a shell" They chose the timber frame supplier, and window supplier. I was happy with the timber frame but would have preferred better windows. This time it has been all our own decisions. Surely today, you would have everything detailed? You will need that for a SAP assesment so you must know the thickness of the frame, what insulation is going in it and what quality of windows you will be using? If not, then you should. I am afraid I am not the best person to comment on architects practices. Back when we did that first house I approached architects and did not like what I found with respect to their high fees. Their fees seemed to be based on a percentage of the estimated build cost, and as if that was not bad enough, their estimated build cost was twice what it actually cost us to build it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike2016 Posted February 5, 2018 Author Share Posted February 5, 2018 Thanks everyone - I'm coming at this from the point of view of needing to fund the build with a mortgage. That ties me into assigned certifier / assigned designer nonsense brought in by the Government in previous years necessitating an Architect. As it's my first build I'm glad of the professional support and it's a fixed price rather than % fee. That said some aspects of the tender process are taking me by surprise so I'm just making sure I can get what I want and not have my hands tied later..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeremy Harris Posted February 5, 2018 Share Posted February 5, 2018 30 minutes ago, mike2016 said: Thanks everyone - I'm coming at this from the point of view of needing to fund the build with a mortgage. That ties me into assigned certifier / assigned designer nonsense brought in by the Government in previous years necessitating an Architect. As it's my first build I'm glad of the professional support and it's a fixed price rather than % fee. That said some aspects of the tender process are taking me by surprise so I'm just making sure I can get what I want and not have my hands tied later..... What's the government done that means you need an architect if building with a mortgage? CDM doesn't mean you have to use an architect for a self-build, we've been around that point here in some depth already. I've not seen anything that means you can't design your own self build, and have a self-build mortgage, in any legislation anywhere. There are still lots of architectural technicians around who seem to do OK with domestic scale work, too, and I remember reading something somewhere that the majority of UK houses aren't, or weren't, designed by an architect either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jack Posted February 5, 2018 Share Posted February 5, 2018 1 hour ago, JSHarris said: What's the government done that means you need an architect if building with a mortgage? CDM doesn't mean you have to use an architect for a self-build, we've been around that point here in some depth already. This may be in Ireland (based on the OP's location), where there have been regulation changes that require someone to be responsible for the whole build. Not sure of the details, but Brendan (MBC) was telling me about it last year. Architects are one possibility for responsible person. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeremy Harris Posted February 5, 2018 Share Posted February 5, 2018 34 minutes ago, jack said: This may be in Ireland (based on the OP's location), where there have been regulation changes that require someone to be responsible for the whole build. Not sure of the details, but Brendan (MBC) was telling me about it last year. Architects are one possibility for responsible person. Good point - I should have checked the location! Certainly the government have tightened up a great deal on the regs in recent years, following all the crap that was built during the boom, some of which will end up being demolished it was that bad, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike2016 Posted February 5, 2018 Author Share Posted February 5, 2018 Yep, Dublin based - I'd agree about the tightening up but all it's done is increase the cost and added paperwork. There's still no building inspecting done! You can certainly self certify here in Ireland but still need some level of professional (Architect/QS/Surveyor etc) to sign off the stage payments for the bank and be answerable with their PI insurance for serious defects (good luck in the courts with that one though). My main gripe currently is the lack of control over what timber frame company is used in the tender process. There are a few on the go at any time and I'd hate to have to reject a good builder just because they responded with someone I've never heard of and has only been around for a less than a year! Do builder tender responses typically declare who is supplying the timber framed kit they are planning to use or do they just give you the finances only? I shouldn't be surprised that the contractor would want an overarching agreement so they have control over things but it's my money! Sounds a bit crazy to me but that's how it is..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JK Ro Posted May 11, 2018 Share Posted May 11, 2018 (edited) Nooooo, that's not right. Make sure you get an architectural specification telling the builder exactly what to use. [Link to specifications article by architect removed] But we've done a couple projects one without the specification and one with. It makes so much difference to have a spec as it dictates the quality of your build. Your builder will always use the cheapest materials otherwise which will kill your project... But! The only items which were up to the builder in the project we did with the spec were items we couldn't see and did not worry too much about in terms of quality e.g. pipework, underfloor heating system, type of studwork. That way we got cheaper spec and items on things that didn't bother us. Edited May 11, 2018 by jack No commercial links please, especially for new members without a substantial history of contributing 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newhome Posted May 11, 2018 Share Posted May 11, 2018 6 minutes ago, JK Ro said: were items we couldn't see and did not worry too much about in terms of quality e.g. pipework, underfloor heating system, Why would you not worry about items you couldn’t see? If they have an important function they are surely just as important whether you can see them or not? Form over function? Plus things you can’t see are often more hellish to correct later if there is an issue. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HerbJ Posted May 11, 2018 Share Posted May 11, 2018 +1 to @newhome The first fix plumbing and electrical ( and the MVHR ducting ) on my build were installed with the same care and attention as the finishing work. It was a clear sign of the quality of my contractors and was often commented on by other contractors and visitors. It's the sign of a poor builder/ contractor (and supervising architect/project manager) if they ignore and accept poor quality work because it's going to be hidden later. There are plenty of stories on BH and elsewhere of major developers not installing insulation etc because no one is checking and it's hidden in the fabric of the build. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newhome Posted May 11, 2018 Share Posted May 11, 2018 2 minutes ago, HerbJ said: They're plenty of stories on BH and elsewhere of major developers not installing insulation Yep! My old Redrow house being a case in point! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jack Posted May 11, 2018 Share Posted May 11, 2018 46 minutes ago, HerbJ said: There are plenty of stories on BH and elsewhere of major developers not installing insulation etc because no one is checking and it's hidden in the fabric of the build. It isn't just developers. I suspect that the small family firm I engaged to do the plasterboarding at my house cut corners when fitting ceiling insulation. It's an attitude - they either have it or they don't. If you find someone with the right attitude, stick to them like glue, and cheerfully pay them a bit more than the alternative if necessary. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike2016 Posted May 11, 2018 Author Share Posted May 11, 2018 Great advice all! I've been talking to a few builders / timber frame providers off the back of recommendations only and plan to get out to visit / see their work while I wait for planning to come through. I'm happier that I can specify a preferred timber framed provider despite what the Architect stated so I'll be sticking to my guns there. Then I plan to be onsite every day to check as far as I'm able that there is no messing around. Getting that tender specification right sounds like I should pay careful attention there..... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterW Posted May 11, 2018 Share Posted May 11, 2018 Get the architect to add a paragraph to the tender that states to each company “please include a list of any items you would normally include with a price breakdown for each item” That means if anyone has missed anything - or you want to compare additional items - then you have the info. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nickfromwales Posted May 11, 2018 Share Posted May 11, 2018 33 minutes ago, mike2016 said: Great advice all! I've been talking to a few builders / timber frame providers off the back of recommendations only and plan to get out to visit / see their work while I wait for planning to come through. I'm happier that I can specify a preferred timber framed provider despite what the Architect stated so I'll be sticking to my guns there. Then I plan to be onsite every day to check as far as I'm able that there is no messing around. Getting that tender specification right sounds like I should pay careful attention there..... Being on site as much as possible is critical, otherwise its all on faith, a faith and trust which needs to be earned. Don't be afraid to state at the outset that you'll be on them like velcro, and tell them loud and clear that you'll only accept the very best of quality and finish. If their top lip starts to quiver at that point, its bye bye. Clearly and firmly set out your expectations at the very outset, before a spanners been turned or a single nails been knocked in. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vivienz Posted May 11, 2018 Share Posted May 11, 2018 +1 to what Nick says. And don't be afraid to push your architect around, either. I will be breaking ground in the next few weeks on my build and have engaged with lots of people/trades that will be involved and the architect has been the least professional of everyone in terms of reliability. They only seem to do something when you really, really nag them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jack Posted May 11, 2018 Share Posted May 11, 2018 49 minutes ago, vivienz said: ... and the architect has been the least professional of everyone in terms of reliability. That opinion may change as the build goes on! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vivienz Posted May 11, 2018 Share Posted May 11, 2018 Indeed, Jack, but I've always been a hopeless optimist - all self builders are, I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jack Posted May 11, 2018 Share Posted May 11, 2018 37 minutes ago, vivienz said: ... I've always been a hopeless optimist - all self builders are, I guess. At the start, yes! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nickfromwales Posted May 11, 2018 Share Posted May 11, 2018 1 hour ago, jack said: At the start, yes! No one said it was going to be easy . Nurture damnit! Nurture ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jack Posted May 11, 2018 Share Posted May 11, 2018 Yeah, just messing. It's very easy and fun, really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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