My dream builders merchant would do [x]

[bmj1]

Hi all,

 

I'm coming towards the end of my self-build journey - and I owe a huge debt of thanks and appreciation to this community - who have been there throughout - with advice, guidance, good humour, and sometimes just support and a friendly pair of ears. Thank you all 😅

 

One paint point I've found is around ordering building materials:

• Lack of transparency around pricing - the online prices and local store prices aren't great - you have to find a local merchant and haggle on every order
• The whole faff around 'setting up accounts'
• Poor services levels generally, lack of a digital process with the cheaper merchants

 

I'm kicking the tyres (genuinely) on doing something about it - and setting up my own digital-first builders merchant.

 

I'd like to kindly ask - what are your paint points when it comes to ordering building materials ? What would your dream builders merchant offer ?

 

Thank you in advance !

[Redbeard]

Sorry, what is a 'paint point'? I thought at first it was a typo inadvertently left in, but I see it appears twice so presumably it means something. A web-search does not elucidate much.

[Redbeard]

1 hour ago, bmj1 said:

What would your dream builders merchant offer ?

 

A very small truck for difficult (tight') roads. I am in my 2nd day of waiting for delivery of a bulk ('tonne') bag and due to dodgy parking the truck cannot get up. I would willingly pay a premium just to get the ****** stuff here!

[MikeSharp01]

It must be pain points.

[Redbeard]

Ahh! Thankyou!

[Alan Ambrose]

I would like the online merchants to (a) not lie about their stock levels, (b) ship stuff when they say they would, (c) let you know promptly when they fail either of (a) or (b).

 

I have a couple of bad experiences recently on quite big orders for 'in stock + order by noon for next day delivery' products. When you call up after a few days and you ask where the delivery is, they, say, "ah, it's not actually in stock / although we said it's in stock it's actually been discontinued + didn't someone from here let you know (no they didn't) + OK if we deliver in a couple of weeks? (no it isn't FFS)". 

[bmj1]

Oops. "Pain points" = things that frustrate you, or you would like improved !

Thank you for the feedback, please keep it coming...!

Edited May 7 by bmj1

[BadgerBodger]

The advertised rate and the actual negotiated rates being so wildly different. Why not just give me your best price? 

I’m constantly surprised as to who is offering the best price, recently been to two specialist BM for roofing materials. Both were beaten by my local BM for a not insignificant roof area of 282m2. Timber, felt, lathe, trim, nails, tiles, the full kaboodl!!! 
 

Same goes for lintels. Why advertise a rate of X when the merchant will immediately give you 40+% off! 

[nod]

Be open on a Sunday 

[BotusBuild]

Pass on the delivery details provided to the delivery driver. If I give you a What3Words address there is a damn good reason - postcode will put you in a 2.5 mile radius of the actual location

[SteamyTea]

We had a delivery a couple of days ago, 150 scaffold planks.

No one on site (not a building site) knew anything about it.

The delivery driver was very patient. I told him to unload it with his crane. He got his stabilisers out, was about to lift, then a change of plan. Ended up with the two of if us lifting 2 planks at a time into a shed. He was cheerful right though it (I still ache).

That was worth a premium.

 

@bmj1 

Are you thinking of a physical store with a good online presence, or an Amazon/eBay type model?

[maxe307]

I would like the merchants to actually know something about the products they are selling and supplying. They seem to know very little about the products in general and often seem to just pass messages on from the suppliers. I have been trying to buy from smaller businesses as they often deal direct to bypass this problem. 

[JohnMo]

28 minutes ago, maxe307 said:

would like the merchants to actually know something about the products they are selling and supplying

So actually pay for a skilled work force?

 

But isn't the skilled worker buying the materials, on top of this? They should know what they are buying why.

 

[Mike]

On 07/05/2025 at 14:01, bmj1 said:

What would your dream builders merchant offer ?

Delivery by drone through my 6th floor windows would be ideal.

[JohnMo]

2 hours ago, Mike said:

Delivery by drone through my 6th floor windows would be ideal.

Especially if it's timber 6.8m long, saves loads of messing about.

[SteamyTea]

If delivered by drone, what is the returns policy?

 

 

[maxe307]

On 09/05/2025 at 20:56, JohnMo said:

So actually pay for a skilled work force?

 

But isn't the skilled worker buying the materials, on top of this? They should know what they are buying why.

 

 

Well frankly the other day I asked a merchant I am using some fairly basic questions on the products he was quoting me for, some where alternatives to what we have specified due to availabilities however they were unable to tell me if the alternatives met the same technical standards as those we specified. If they are going to make a margin on the products they provide they should at least understand what they are selling. 

[JohnMo]

1 hour ago, maxe307 said:

 

Well frankly the other day I asked a merchant I am using some fairly basic questions on the products he was quoting me for, some where alternatives to what we have specified due to availabilities however they were unable to tell me if the alternatives met the same technical standards as those we specified. If they are going to make a margin on the products they provide they should at least understand what they are selling. 

Scary really.

[Gus Potter]

3 hours ago, maxe307 said:

Well frankly the other day I asked a merchant I am using some fairly basic questions on the products he was quoting me for, some where alternatives to what we have specified due to availabilities however they were unable to tell me if the alternatives met the same technical standards as those we specified. If they are going to make a margin on the products they provide they should at least understand what they are selling. 

That is why I say on my drawings " or similar and appoved by me"

 

1 hour ago, JohnMo said:

Scary really

It is because what you should be doing is going back to your designer and asking.. is it ok for me to use this.. but you probably wanted the cheepest price from your designer in the first place so they would not have included the time to keep yourself right and hold your hand.

 

There is no free lunch here!

 

Do you honestly expect the person on the sales counter of a builders merchant to ask what the load ratio is when they are selling you a Catnic Lintel for example at a bargin basement price? The load ratio is the difference between the load on the inside and the outside of a steel lintel. If the guy on the counter can tell you that he / she stands a good chance of getting a job in a design office.

Edited May 12 by Gus Potter

[dpmiller]

B&Q manage to get ex-tradies with *some* level of knowledge, to assist the punters

[Lincolnshire Ian]

Don't treat me like you are selling me a load of tarmac from the back of a flat bed that's "left over from another job". 

When I have been to the trouble to send you my house plans, spend an hour listening to your Account Manager tell me how good you are and then trawl through a credit application form don't treat me like a mug. 

I "tested" the BM with a large request for a quote for fencing timber. The builders merchant popped back and said they didn't have the dimensions I wanted but pretty close. I thought fair enough, let's see the quote. They sent me a quote for timber that was for "internal use only", I know this because it was printed on the quote! 

[ToughButterCup]

Builders' Merchants are a minefield for self builders. Here was my take

[marmic]

having worked for and managed builders merchants for 18 years until 2003 (with a small stint at a tool/fixings distributor) I know the business extremely well. (now work for a specialist sub-contractor mainly in fit-out market).  And yes it's one of the only industries left where having to haggle is the norm. You need to know the score!   I did at one point consider setting up a new company - but didn't want the grief of being an employer so remained employed!  The majority of conversations I have with merchants now (as a customer) tend to be me telling them what they are doing!  Often poor knowledge (assume lack of training - used to be a big thing!), little commercial awareness, and astonishing how many clearly don't give a sh##!  Welcome to the 2020's!!   Unfortunately the 'professional independent merchants' are no longer imho. So often corporate groups just looking at bottom line doesn't help.  The knowledge required to understand all products, how they are used/markets takes a long time to accumulate and very few people are interested - and merchants don't pay the rates required to attract and retain the right people.  The building industry has changed significantly too - and with MMC increasing merchants will I believe need to adapt to retain levels of busiess (must already be shrinking?) - albeit there will always be a large traditional market for them.  Our self build walls and roof is timber frame panels ready made out of a factory craned into position which has cut out a significant amount of procurement from merchants.  They will also be more careful these days about the liabilty of providing informaton that could be deemed 'professional advice'.   Most general builders merchants will I think seriously dumb down their range of products (probably already happening) and concentrate on heavyside/associated products, and timber.  Lightside covered by plumbers/decorators merchants and with the likes of toolfix and screwstation who would pay double for a box of fixings / power tools etc.  Builders merchants will probably continue to do well with direct to site sales from manufacturers who insist on supplying through merchants (not a bad thing) - will I assume still receive a typical 5% or so handling fee - I have had to do this on a few items, but have sorted the details out first with manufacturer.  Too many have also tried to become DIY stores over time too and failed - apart from anything else it alienates ther core customers!     Items we have needed have so far come from numerous businesses, including direct from manufacturers/distributors  -  would have had to been via merchant in past.   Also used merchants of course - but from various depending what we need and up until couple weeks ago hadn't even bothered setting up an account anywhere (finally established a good contact - its the right person you need, the company less of a factor!).  I can see merchants trying to sell everything shrinking - less money tied up in stock too!  Already happening by default I feel with multiple companies selling specific product ranges on-line nationally with websites of varied user friendlyness - and a select few with remarkably good back up service with phone conversations possible with real people which is unusual these days with anything.  And when I say real people i'm referring to those who do give a sh## and have a brain that contains common sense in addition to knowledge of what they are selling.   The need to now use multiple suppliers is almost in a way turning back the clock!     I could go on all day on this topic, but won't - I've rambled on enough as it is!!  bottom line is (imo) as a self builder you need to know what you need and understand the market - info and opinions from merchants etc always useful but don't trust/rely on.  So to get back on topic of setting up a dream builders merchant - sounds great, but good luck, plan extremely well, and be very careful........  and going off topic I've heard some ridiculous things over the last 6 months from merchants, disributors, and even manufacturers - and more so from trades who think they know better - 'I've been doing this for 30 years guv' scenario - then making mistakes and costing themselves money and time because they didn't listen and reluctance to change to new ways of doing things! One has cost me a little money. time and grief too (sloppy not immediately obvious things i found after they had completed - sorted myself as no point getting them back as they'd probably f### up something else and moan!)  -  needless to say that one won't be getting the next phase of works they were particularly keen to do!   right thats enough, feel better now!
 

[Roger440]

The best builders merchants would be one i dont have to interface with.

 

i am amazed however, that the world seems to have mostly passed them by. As Alan said earlier, the online activities are mostly woeful, lie about stock, no idea when they can deliver etc etc. The in store experience exsasparating. How much is anything, really?

 

Im my world and many other sectors, if you dont have it, and cant deliver next day, you are not really in the game.

 

Sooner or later, hopefully sooner, someone, probably one of the big boys, (with a big distribution/delivery network)will realise they can clean up by getting their act together. Charge sensible prices that are what they are, deliver next day, and be transparent about your stock. Bit like screwfix, but bigger.

 

In the process they can just close the doors at the braches and concentrate on being efficient distribution points.

 

Cant happen to soon. Whole industry needs dragging into this century. Im still amazed no one has jumped into this space, but im sure it will come.

 

 

Edited Wednesday at 12:19 by Roger440

[marmic]