How to not get ripped off and secure the best prices?

[flanagaj]

As someone who worked in the building industry many years ago and has had the displeasure of having to deal with the builders merchants random price generator, I am trying to deduce how I can avoid getting ripped off when we come to start our self build.   As we are on a very tight budget, I am going to source the materials and only use trades that I have to (brickie, electrician and plasterer) most of the other trades I intend doing myself.

Do people literally get their plans quantity surveyed and put the whole supply out to a single merchant, or are you better to buy stuff as you need and spend time trawling the internet and ringing around?

 

Thanks

 

[nod]

Regarding merchants 

I’ve used several Prices vary wildly from one to another 

Ive had accounts with TP and formally Build Base for thirty plus years and a local merchant has beaten these on price for most things Except blocks and foundation blocks

Sheffield insulation beats all on plaster products 

Online sellers beat all on lintels and underground drainage and Gebrits 

 

  SHOP AROUND £££££££¥

 

[flanagaj]

I've heard that they can be sneaky too.  They give you a good price on one item and then you find that you get stung on another.  Having to haggle every time you need a quote wears thin after a while.

 

[JohnMo]

Just a matter of shopping around, some local merchants just take the p*ss on prices. They have online and shop prices and they can be very different, I would normally have the online price to hand and ask for the prices in the merchant pushed for the best price or better. Usually the face to face price was best.

 

If you have space to store stuff you get some amazing bargains, summer buy heating products, most my stuff was 30 to 50% off.

[crispy_wafer]

Shop around, but consider delivery, convenience and offload too. 

 

Our bricks and blocks came from merchants, insulation came from online, but in bulk that negated any delivery, it had to be handballed off the wagon, but it was light so easily managed.  Timber from merchants as convenient to pick up in trailer as and when needed.  Plasterboard from merchants as I'm buying 20 -30 sheets or so at a time which I can move in 15 minutes or so into the build to keep dry and they hiab off the wagon.  Cabling came from screwfix or toolstation whichever cheapest at the time.  Bathroom products from online, but most of this gets drop shipped from the manufacturer...

 

By merchants I mean buildbase(huws g) and TP

 

get a feel for the ballpark you ought to paying, ask if needs be.  I'm happy to share what I'm paying as a bit and bobber diy builder...  I've got nowt to hide or be secretive about, got my big boy pants on and can own the situation if i've paid too much 🤣

[Nick Laslett]

@flanagaj, for me the procurement process was the most difficult and fatiguing part of my build. Every week across my build I was having to buy something, or researching buying something. It was very draining. Inevitably you sometimes get the wrong stuff delivered and have to sort out the returns process. Three toilets were wrong (wall mount vs standing), ordered 10mm Fermacell, they delivered 12.5mm. Very carefully specced order for all SVP materials and they delivered 1 wrong item. 
 

For the insulated raft foundations, the fitter told me on the day, he needed the DPC, so off to the BMs to get it as quickly as possible, all ideas of any cost savings out of the window. Many times trades will need something, where time is the most critical factor. 
 

There are £000’s to be saved with good procurement practices, like at least 3 quotes, asking for discounts, large volume orders, etc. But these things are easy to say, but hard to do week in and out during the build.

 

I could not get a bathroom tiler for love or money, had to beg one guy just to do the plant room. 
 

Another big issue is what you choose to spec materials wise. If you go off the well trod path, then you lose all optionally with pricing. For example I wanted to use Siniat Resilient Metal Framing for my stud walls, this is a product aimed at student accommodation market, schools and hospitals. The amount I need for the few stud walls, meant I had no leverage. 
 

You can get free shipping if you meet the minimum spend threshold, this sometimes means you have to bunch items together, even though the BM might not have the best price for all items, but you make the saving on no delivery charge. 
 

I wanted a particular material to sound insulate my SVP pipes, the only merchant that would sell it online had a £100 delivery charge, the materials were £150. Sometimes you just have to take the price hit. They sold nothing else I needed, it was a specialised item. Did I need this solution to sound insulate my SVP? I don’t know, but I did not want to finish the house and have noisy SVPs and regret the £100 delivery charge. 

[ProDave]

Delivery on large items can make or break a deal.  When ordering a treatment plant, most said I would be responsible for unloading, so would need a telehandler or forklift.  But ordering it through a bilders merchant not only got a cheaper price, but delivery on their own wagon and offloaded by it's hiab.

[saveasteading]

4 hours ago, flanagaj said:

better to buy stuff as you need

Meet the reps at 2 local BMs. A national one and your local one.

Talk through the job and they will soon be chasing you.

Online will show you the unit prices so you have a feeling. TP website is handy.

Then they will give better prices when they can because if they upset you once, you might be gone.

 

Delivery is included.

 

Save the haggling for the big purchases.

The exception is drainage. Usually better to find a local specialist. 

Thd rep is usually straight with me about what they can't compete on.

 

[saveasteading]

3 hours ago, ProDave said:

ordering a treatment plant,

Some are easily manhandleable off the trailer.

Some only sell through a bm, so the handling is theirs.

Later a digger can hoist it in the hole.

Obv @ProDavehas had a  heavy one. So yes, ask.

[ProDave]

1 minute ago, saveasteading said:

Some are easily manhandleable off the trailer.

Some only sell through a bm, so the handling is theirs.

Later a digger can hoist it in the hole.

Obv @ProDavehas had a  heavy one. So yes, ask.

I recall the blissful ignorance of my first build 20 years ago.  The lorry with the septic tank arrived, a simple quite light fibreglass "onion"  the driver rolled it off the flatbed, it landed on the grass and stopped rolling before it got to the burn.  Remarkably it did not break.  Nobody discussed and I never thought to ask about delivery and unloading.

 

This tine it was a heavier treatment plant and I did not want to take the risk of damaging it, and my little digger would not go high enough to lift it off a lorry.  But the digger did indeed lower it into the hole.

[bmj1]

5 hours ago, Nick Laslett said:

@flanagaj, for me the procurement process was the most difficult and fatiguing part of my build. Every week across my build I was having to buy something, or researching buying something. It was very draining. Inevitably you sometimes get the wrong stuff delivered and have to sort out the returns process. Three toilets were wrong (wall mount vs standing), ordered 10mm Fermacell, they delivered 12.5mm. Very carefully specced order for all SVP materials and they delivered 1 wrong item. 
 

For the insulated raft foundations, the fitter told me on the day, he needed the DPC, so off to the BMs to get it as quickly as possible, all ideas of any cost savings out of the window. Many times trades will need something, where time is the most critical factor. 
 

There are £000’s to be saved with good procurement practices, like at least 3 quotes, asking for discounts, large volume orders, etc. But these things are easy to say, but hard to do week in and out during the build.

 

I could not get a bathroom tiler for love or money, had to beg one guy just to do the plant room. 
 

Another big issue is what you choose to spec materials wise. If you go off the well trod path, then you lose all optionally with pricing. For example I wanted to use Siniat Resilient Metal Framing for my stud walls, this is a product aimed at student accommodation market, schools and hospitals. The amount I need for the few stud walls, meant I had no leverage. 
 

You can get free shipping if you meet the minimum spend threshold, this sometimes means you have to bunch items together, even though the BM might not have the best price for all items, but you make the saving on no delivery charge. 
 

I wanted a particular material to sound insulate my SVP pipes, the only merchant that would sell it online had a £100 delivery charge, the materials were £150. Sometimes you just have to take the price hit. They sold nothing else I needed, it was a specialised item. Did I need this solution to sound insulate my SVP? I don’t know, but I did not want to finish the house and have noisy SVPs and regret the £100 delivery charge. 

 

I'm curious. What material did you use to insulate your SVPs?

[Nick Laslett]

8 hours ago, bmj1 said:

 

I'm curious. What material did you use to insulate your SVPs?

Here is the NHBC technical detail for SVP boxing. This is a good starting point using mineral wool. If you stuff the enclosure with too much mineral wool, you risk creating a coupling effect which enhances the sound transfer. The air gap is important. 
 

The next step up from this is denser mineral wool with an aluminium foil backing from Rockwell, Isover, etc. 

 

Armaflex have a version with aluminium foil, edpm and foam. 
 

I went with the Tecsound FT55 AL Acoustic pipe wrap, which has the best acoustic reduction by depth, only 12.5mm for -25dB. This consists of porous felt bonded to the Tecsound membrane, reinforced with an aluminium foil.

I bought it from here:

https://soundstop.co.uk/products/tecsound-ft55-acoustic-pipe-wrap

Ouch!

 

This site looks like it stocks most of the options:

 

https://www.buyinsulationonline.co.uk/blog/soil-pipe-insulation-a-step-by-step-guide

Another product I bought was Muftilag R51 Acoustic Insulation Sheet, which is slightly thicker. 

 

I also used the Wavin AS+ SVP product line. This is similar to Geberit Silent-PP and Marley dBlue. There are probably other options. The acoustic soil pipe has a much thicker wall than standard SVP, but the main area where it improves the sound reduction is the female coupling and the edpm padded brackets.

 

 

https://wavin.com/gb/s/C03_F011_S276/wavin-as

Finally, I used Fermacell boards for my build. These are higher density boards with better sound reduction than soundblock plasterboard at the same thickness.  I don’t know what board NHBC are specifying to get 15kg/m2, 15mm soundblock plasterboard is 13kg/m2. 12.5mm Fermacell board is 14.5kg/m2. 

Edited April 17 by Nick Laslett

[bmj1]

That's a nice approach. And arguably a better solution than the blue acoustic push fit svp I ended up using

[Spinny]

Yes, we have used that acoustic pipe wrap for ensuite soil pipe running across a ceiling. The Mass Loaded Vinyl does seem effective. We found we had an issue with rain noise beating down on a singly ply warm roof like a drum, so we are sticking a layer of adhesive MLV internally to the underside of the deck between the joists. We tried it out in one room and it was very effective in reducing the rain noise.

 

Agree with all comments above.

 

Obtaining the right materials at the right time is a hell of a challenge. Builders & trades are often completely uninterested and unwilling to obtain anything which isn't immediately available off the shelf at any builders merchant. If you want anything other than the most basic spec items it is highly unlikely to be stocked by any standard merchant as they all seem to focus down their stock ranges very severely. The internet amazon style delivery model has taken over for anything beyond basic items. Often there will be a weeks lead time. And our builders were constantly over optimistic about when they would need items and we have stuff stored all over the house for months. I have had to help unload and carry stuff delivered on an artic lorry that couldn't get down residential streets.

 

Unfortunately I consider the building materials market as pretty dysfunctional. Most materials are purchased by trades people and not the building end customer. This means many manufacturers focus on the needs and interests of trades which are distinctly different to those of end users. Trades want - off the shelf, low discounted price to them with high list price they can charge their customer, to use the same stuff on every job, stuff which is very quick and easy to cut, handle and install. One product variation, not 15 different colours, and 10 options. They don't care about 'nice to have's' or 'bells and whistles' or 'detailed spec requirements' etc. They are not going to live in what they build. They don't want 12 different trade accounts. This makes the building industry very resistant to change, and makes it very difficult for manufacturers to get products which benefit the end customer, but not the tradesman, into the market.

 

I have used habito plasterboard...higher spec, higher price, heavier, and you have to work to source it and no tradesperson knows or cares that it exists.

https://youtu.be/VltFR-kXtcw?feature=shared

 

 

[nod]

So many have asked how we’ve kept our build under a £1000 m2 Twice now Shopping around is a massive part of this 

 

Just this week I’ve brought in 100 tons of topsoil A massive £27 per ton 

From a quarry that I’ve had an account at for years 

Ive found a supplier at £15 ton Nice saving for just a handful of phone calls 

[dpmiller]

the pre- sown weeds and haz waste residue are free!

[saveasteading]

On 17/04/2025 at 08:45, ProDave said:

 

I can't get rid of the above for some reason so ignore.

 

More re merchants.

 

Most small builders have one BM account. They may get decent value or may not acc to their buying skills and turnover  The BM is often getting a premium for their credit risk.

 

I did a warehouse for a BM once. The owner  told me that Saturday mornings was good business. ie 10% off list price pleased the public but had a nice margin.

 

Your builder might charge you the list price while paying less....fair enough when they are buying and managing.

 

I bought a special part for a built in wc recently ( I asked questions on here). It was £32  on Amazon and more elsewhere online. TP got it in specially and charged £16. I'm glad I asked them.

 

A rule of thumb is that a project is labour/plant/materials 40/20/40% before overheads. 

20% or more discount on 40% of a project is a lot of money. And a builder will quite reasonably want 10% margin, or more, on it too.

 

[Nickfromwales]

2 minutes ago, saveasteading said:

I can't get rid of the above for some reason so ignore.

If you leave the unwanted text and hit refresh on the browser you’ll return to an empty text editor box. When you click on it to make the comment again you’ll see the text reappear and an option to restore that text or ‘clear editor’, so click on clear and the text will all disappear 👍.

[flanagaj]

2 hours ago, nod said:

So many have asked how we’ve kept our build under a £1000 m2 Twice now Shopping around is a massive part of this 

@nod gives me hope in a sea of "It's going to cost you a minimum of 2.5k/m2" negativity.

[nod]

10 minutes ago, flanagaj said:

@nod gives me hope in a sea of "It's going to cost you a minimum of 2.5k/m2" negativity.

Nahhhhh

We are almost there now 

250m of paving still to do out of the 550m2 Electric gates going in as we speak 14k that we didn’t have to spend 

Weve spent 332k  on 400m2 With 7k still to pay out But have 30-40 k vat claim to go in 

 

Edited April 18 by nod

[Spinny]

...But it IS going to cost you a minimum of 2.5k/m2 😁

 

The problem with these estimates is cost for what exactly and whereabouts in the country ? with or without labour ? VAT included ? insurance included ? internal fittings, furniture, and decoration included ? the new electrics and heating system included ? standard size upvc windows or triple glazed aluminium custom size ? flooring included ? kitchen included ? Contingency included ?

 

We were given that figure by our architect at the design stage. The overall cost is much higher than that. I suspect the majority of the time architects design things and they never ever get built because the client cannot afford them, and the architect gave a crude and over optimistic floorspace figure.

 

Making budget allocation choices is really, really, tough, so many things. If you are going to live in it for 20 years - so tough to down specify.

[Spinny]

Quote

250m of paving still to do out of the 550m2

Wow, I make that 82k+ on paving alone from a landscaper around here.

I presume your cost is based on mucho free labour.

[nod]

2 minutes ago, Spinny said:

Wow, I make that 82k+ on paving alone from a landscaper around here.

I presume your cost is based on mucho free labour.

Have to check 19m2 plus 30 ton of sand and 80 ton of mot 20 ton of gravel for the remaining drive 

 

[nod]

32 minutes ago, nod said:

Have to check 19m2 plus 30 ton of sand and 80 ton of mot 20 ton of gravel for the remaining drive 

 

Around 16k spent on paving and not etc 

[saveasteading]

3 hours ago, Spinny said:

the architect gave a crude and over optimistic floorspace figure.

One told me the client's budget when I asked. I said it couldn't be done, by a long way. . He responded ' the client always finds more money'.

I then saw the client privately and withdrew, on the basis that I wouldn't be involved in a deception.

They got it done at about twice the budget, then kindly showed me round too.