Jeremy Harris Posted Monday at 19:07 Share Posted Monday at 19:07 First of all, my apologies for being silent for so long. TBH, having finally settled here in our new home I needed a break from self-build. Not for any particular reason at all, just that I'd been living and breathing it for so many years that I needed some time out, a bit of breathing space if you like. Old age seems to do this, creep up on us almost unnoticed (and I'm now in my 70's). Also I was spending way too much time here, to the exclusion of other things I should have been doing. Anyway, thought I'd post here to hopefully shed some light on how things have gone with our Sunamp adventure, and give a bit of a gentle warning. Those who've been here, and on Ebuild before this place, may remember that we bought a Sunamp PV right back in the early days, before this place existed. We ran that for well over a year, with a few minor teething problems, but it was enough to convince me to swap it for a larger Sunamp UniQ eHW 9, which I did in September 2018. That also had a few teething problems, but Sunamp sorted them out quickly and without fuss. Since then I've been more than happy with the Sunamp. It's provided reliable hot water, mostly heated by excess solar generation, in fact far more hot water than we have ever needed as it turned out to be a bit over-sized. The first time we went away on holiday I turned everything off and was amazed to find that when we got home a week later there was still piping hot water available. I cannot complain at all about its performance, it has been significantly more efficient than a hot water cylinder, which was the reason for me being so enthusiastic about it back in 2016. Sadly, our Sunamp died on Saturday morning, and ejected its phase change material all over the floor, down through the ceiling in the kitchen below: A check upstairs in the services room confirmed that it's death had been spectacular, with PCM all over the floor and a long icicle of sodium acetate crystals down the back of the unit, from the burst casing inside: To it's credit, despite this it had delivered two showers that morning before we spotted the problem. Sadly this was to be its dying endeavour. I contacted Sunamp, not because of any warranty claim (there was no warranty anyway) but to ask them to put me in contact with a local installer for a replacement. I spent the weekend looking at the specs of the newer Thermino models and, given that the 9kWh (11kWh) UniQ was overkill for just two showers a day I decided its replacement would be the smaller Thermino ePlus 150, with the PV02 key to better match it for PV heating via the Eddi (when summer comes back). I found a couple of online suppliers, price, including VAT looked to be around £1,800 or so, plus delivery, which sort of seemed OK. I'm not up to getting the old unit downstairs and the new one up stairs, so I contacted a few local plumbers. All said they wouldn't touch this job. No idea why, it's a pretty straightforward swap, as the PRV, TMV etc is all there, just a matter of re-jigging two 22mm pipes. Seems the technology just scared them off, or, perhaps, it might have something to do with dealing with Sunamp? After a lot of delay, Sunamp customer services came back to me, asked for photos, then went silent. I got on to them again and they gave me contact details for a couple of installers. I contacted them, first one got back to me saying it would be around £6k to swap out our failed unit for a new one. I questioned this. He said it was about a day's work. Now, I'm all in favour of paying a fair rate for a job, but I know how long this job is going to take and I know the cost of all the materials. I am not going to pay a bloke £800 plus per hour, no matter how damned good he is! So, looks like I have to fall back to hiring a stair climber and doing it myself. PITA, as I'd have happily paid someone a few hundred quid to do this (over and above the cost of the bits) but I point blank refuse to stuff over £4k in someone's pocket for a job that is so straightforward, especially when there are installers advertising prices of around £4k to replace an existing hot water system and cylinder for a Sunamp, a job that is a heck of a lot more work. Sorry for the rant, thought it was worth posting here as a warning to others thinking of going down the Sunamp route. I can't fault the performance, but if the cost of repair and maintenance by a Sunamp approved company is so crazy then it may give some pause for thought. I've half a mind to bin the Sunamp and just get a high efficiency 150 litre cylinder installed. No idea what that might cost, but I doubt it would be over £6k. PS: Seems I have hundreds of PMs that have accrued in my time away. Sorry, but I doubt that I have a hope in hell of answering them all! 17 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pocster Posted Monday at 19:13 Share Posted Monday at 19:13 (edited) You’re back ! Knew you would ! I’ve tried to match your level of expertise and knowledge in your absence. Think I did ok 👍 Edited Monday at 19:26 by Pocster 1 1 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onoff Posted Monday at 19:13 Share Posted Monday at 19:13 Welcome back! I still haven't finished the bathroom btw.. 2 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pocster Posted Monday at 19:15 Share Posted Monday at 19:15 Just now, Onoff said: Welcome back! I still haven't finished the bathroom btw.. Ain’t that the truth . In that time I built an entire (expletive deleted)ing house . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onoff Posted Monday at 19:16 Share Posted Monday at 19:16 Poor bloke, of all the people who could have welcomed him back... 😂 Can't help thinking a 6 year life for a product, that then fails like that, isn't a great advert. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onoff Posted Monday at 19:17 Share Posted Monday at 19:17 1 minute ago, Pocster said: Ain’t that the truth . In that time I built an entire (expletive deleted)ing house . & it still leaks! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pocster Posted Monday at 19:19 Share Posted Monday at 19:19 1 minute ago, Onoff said: & it still leaks! Has a water feature yes . But yeah @Jeremy Harris returns and us 2 twats open the door for him . Sign of the times I guess . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onoff Posted Monday at 19:20 Share Posted Monday at 19:20 12 minutes ago, Jeremy Harris said: So, looks like I have to fall back to hiring a stair climber and doing it myself. Would an extra pair(s) of hands help with the heavy lifting? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparrowhawk Posted Monday at 19:24 Share Posted Monday at 19:24 Welcome back @Jeremy Harris, nothing useful to add to this thread but I wanted to say I have learned a heck of a lot from your posts on the forum (and still getting my head round some of the more technically inclined ones). Thanks for all your input over the years. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onoff Posted Monday at 19:33 Share Posted Monday at 19:33 Seriously, I'd be happy to pop down and help lift it out etc. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jack Posted Monday at 19:58 Share Posted Monday at 19:58 22 minutes ago, Onoff said: Seriously, I'd be happy to pop down and help lift it out etc. Same, more than happy to come over and help with lifting. Great to see you back after such a long time @Jeremy Harris 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joth Posted Monday at 20:01 Share Posted Monday at 20:01 Oh my oh my, welcome back! Much as I wish the reason for your return were more happy news... Your input on here was helpful for me during our build (2020/21, with all the extra challenges those years brought) I'd more than happily come over and give a hand on your replacement if you'd like an extra set of hands. Personally I'd think seriously about a uvc, fwiw. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparrowhawk Posted Monday at 20:18 Share Posted Monday at 20:18 I'm more a theoretical type but I'd be more than happy to come up and stand and point at things while others lift and fit the Sunamp. I can even hand people the right tool at the right time..! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Posted Monday at 20:42 Share Posted Monday at 20:42 1 hour ago, Jeremy Harris said: it was worth posting here as a warning to others thinking of going down the Sunamp route. Thanks for returning and providing the feedback - which is very disappointing. I'll cross my fingers extra hard as I've someone lined someone up (for a lot less than €6,000 labour) to install one later this year in my French apartment... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProDave Posted Monday at 20:53 Share Posted Monday at 20:53 Nice to hear from you again Jeremy. In your absence a few other people have had failure's with sun amp's and inability to get them fixed in any way. This has left some of us thinking this is a promising technology let down by in many ways poor design and certainly not been designed to be servicable in any way. Compare this to a stainless steel UVC and an immersion heater. The heater is an easy swap that any plumber can do, the expansion vessel likewise is servicable and the tank itself rarely fails and usually has a long guarantee. Given the potential to fail, and then it's irrepairable and out of guarantee, then you really really really have to want a Sun Amp to tolerate these issues compared to an UVC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gone West Posted Monday at 21:08 Share Posted Monday at 21:08 Welcome back. Sorry to hear about the problems. We've moved to the west country, so are a bit closer to your neck of the woods. I'd be happy to provide assistance but as I'm also in my 70s I don't think it would actually be much help. Hope it all gets sorted successfully. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorfun Posted Monday at 21:31 Share Posted Monday at 21:31 Welcome back. Hope you’re refreshed after your hiatus. I also learned loads from your posts so thank you. ☺️ 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russdl Posted Monday at 21:42 Share Posted Monday at 21:42 (edited) Good to see you back @Jeremy Harris even if your Sunamp tale has me nervously looking into the utility room to check our Sunamp hasn’t gone pop! Im just up the road from you and more than happy to lend muscle to help you get the beast up the stairs, it’s the least I can do, your post etc were HUGELY helpful and informative for our build. Hasn’t your PCM core got a 10 year warranty? I’m pretty sure mine has. Edited Monday at 21:46 by Russdl Warranty but added 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeremy Harris Posted Monday at 22:30 Author Share Posted Monday at 22:30 1 hour ago, ProDave said: Nice to hear from you again Jeremy. In your absence a few other people have had failure's with sun amp's and inability to get them fixed in any way. This has left some of us thinking this is a promising technology let down by in many ways poor design and certainly not been designed to be servicable in any way. Compare this to a stainless steel UVC and an immersion heater. The heater is an easy swap that any plumber can do, the expansion vessel likewise is servicable and the tank itself rarely fails and usually has a long guarantee. Given the potential to fail, and then it's irrepairable and out of guarantee, then you really really really have to want a Sun Amp to tolerate these issues compared to an UVC. Thanks Dave, I must admit that having spent a day or two looking around it does seem that this type of catastrophic failure isn't exactly unknown. I've no idea yet what it's going to cost to put right the damage it's caused, there is a solid mass of sodium acetate stuck in the ceiling void, so I'm going to have to rip down part of the kitchen ceiling to get at it, then make good. No idea what sort of damage there may be up there, either there's quite a lot of cable runs in that general area, and I've no idea if there is any sort of interaction between sodium acetate and PVC. I'm hoping not, but until I get a good look in there I won't know for sure. It seems clear that Sunamp's installers are keen to rip people off for all they can get when these things fail, too, replying on the fact that it seems a lot of general plumbers and heating engineers won't touch them. I'm seriously looking at replacing it with a slimline UVC, simply for future proofing as much as the much lower cost. It's easy to get someone to work on a UVC if anything goes awry in future, and that may make more sense than the modest efficiency gain from using the Sunamp. The real problem with the Sunamp is as your say, it's just not in any way repairable. When it fails it's a write off, with the added problem of trying to get rid of it. How do you dispose of ~160kg box full of leaking sodium acetate? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeremy Harris Posted Monday at 22:32 Author Share Posted Monday at 22:32 47 minutes ago, Russdl said: Good to see you back @Jeremy Harris even if your Sunamp tale has me nervously looking into the utility room to check our Sunamp hasn’t gone pop! Im just up the road from you and more than happy to lend muscle to help you get the beast up the stairs, it’s the least I can do, your post etc were HUGELY helpful and informative for our build. Hasn’t your PCM core got a 10 year warranty? I’m pretty sure mine has. Sadly mine didn't come with any warranty as far as I know. Sunamp seem to have washed their hands of it, anyway, and I'm not sure I have the strength of will to do battle with them over it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProDave Posted Monday at 22:33 Share Posted Monday at 22:33 3 minutes ago, Jeremy Harris said: The real problem with the Sunamp is as your say, it's just not in any way repairable. When it fails it's a write off, with the added problem of trying to get rid of it. How do you dispose of ~160kg box full of leaking sodium acetate? Is that not a WEE responsibility for the manufacturer? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeremy Harris Posted Monday at 23:07 Author Share Posted Monday at 23:07 32 minutes ago, ProDave said: Is that not a WEE responsibility for the manufacturer? Excellent point! thanks. I'd forgotten about WEE. Looks like I just call Sunamp and tell them to take it away, then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Posted yesterday at 00:32 Share Posted yesterday at 00:32 1 hour ago, Jeremy Harris said: I'd forgotten about WEE. Looks like I just call Sunamp and tell them to take it away, then. I seem to recall that WEEE doesn't cover transporting the item, unless you're having a similar product delivered? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteamyTea Posted yesterday at 05:13 Share Posted yesterday at 05:13 Welcome back. I will come over hand help (make the tea) while the strong boys do the lifting. There are still discussions about 'thermal mass'. 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russdl Posted yesterday at 06:48 Share Posted yesterday at 06:48 @Jeremy Harris It should have a 10 year warranty on the PCM. Sunamp Warranty (pre June 2024) 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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