Designing for maintenance

[MarkA]

(Or should that be 'if only I knew then what I know now...'?)

 

One topic that I am keen on is thinking in advance is how elements of the house will be maintained once the build is complete (we only just have planning permission so are early in the process).  I am sure lots of people have lessons that we could learn from based on mistakes they have made as well as the thought process that they went through in drawing up their detailed plans.  I get the impression that there are some well explored areas and one would hope that architects/technicians will have the experience and/or checklists to methodically work through so that maintenance is considered.  However, as a self builder I am sure there are lots of traps we can walk into.  Does anyone have any checklists or could they point me at this sort of info if it has been discussed before?

 

As a starter for ten I am thinking about MVHR units and their filters (both within the unit and on the external ducts into the building).  Lots of these units seem to be in the roof so the ducts are high up, yet surely the filters are going to need cleaning at least once per year.  Where we live we get loads of tree seeds and pollen which will clog up external filters in no time at all.  I am not looking forward to the prospects of climbing up tall ladders in increasing old age (or paying someone) just to clean a filter.  We are thinking that it makes more sense to have these lower down (but then not too low due to a host of other potential issues this could lead to).

 

What have the rest of you considered (or just got wrong )?

 

 

[TerryE]

• Timber frame and eco joists give you loads of room for pipework and ducting runs.
• Use Aluminium cladding for all your Soffit and Verge work: zero maintenance and a softer look than uPVC.  Ditto use AluClad uPVC doors and frames.  Zero maintenance unlike wood. 
• Continental-style windows (e.g. Internorm range) which open inwards for cleaning.
• Use a Hep2O manifold system for your plumbing. Put a small central service cupboard on the ground floor with the manifolds near the ceiling.  No hidden joins in any pipes -- so no hidden join failures in later years. And you can isolate single appliances / sinks with a couple of turns of a valve in the manifold if you do need to do maintenance.
• In include your loft in warm space and have a proper staircase up to it.  The MVHR can go on the floor in a loft room.

That's just for starters.

[ProDave]

+1 to all of the above.

 

If you only have a small loft and need to use a ladder to get to it, do NOT put your mvhr up there. I just know nobody will bother to change the filters.

 

Upstairs, I have left a strip of floorboards at each end of each room as "traps" i.e. not glued and just screwed down so I can open up both ends of a room and fish new cables through.  Thinking of when the next high tech AV cable comes out to replace hdmi etc.

[Bitpipe]

6 hours ago, MarkA said:

  We are thinking that it makes more sense to have these lower down (but then not too low due to a host of other potential issues this could lead to).

 

 

Our MVHR unit is the the basement so the vents are about 1m above ground level. They are on the outside wall of the utility (directly above plant room) and are south facing but in the 1m wide alley between the utility and garage which is usually quite shaded and still.

 

Been running for over a year and have had a lot of dusty works going on (usually remember to turn off the MVHR, not always though). Have given the filters a regular vacuum and have just replaced them together with a was out of the heat exchanger.

 

I've not even fitted the external cowls yet (as I want to avoid them getting damaged while landscaping is ongoing) but was surprised at how few leafs etc made it onto the filter itself.

 

So not sure what the issues are with having them low down. 

[TerryE]

Another member here, @RandAbuild, has a 1½ storey build (a rather tall 1½ storey build) and his MVHR is in a cupboard off the upstairs landing. Nice and accessible. 

[Jeremy Harris]

6 hours ago, TerryE said:

Another member here, @RandAbuild, has a 1½ storey build (a rather tall 1½ storey build) and his MVHR is in a cupboard off the upstairs landing. Nice and accessible. 

 

I designed in a services room, accessed by a full sized (wide) oak door from the spare bedroom.  It houses the MVHR, water softener, Sunamp PV, water filter and disinfection unit as well as the MVHR.  All the external antenna cables come in via the top corner of this room (four satellite feeds, a DAB feed plus a spare feed), the antenna distribution box is in there, as well as the consumer unit, generation meter, house energy usage electricity meter GPS derived real time master clock and the house data logger (logs all the sensor data to a USB stick every six months, in 1 month chunks) is in there, with some spare network cable points and a bank of spare power points for future expansion.  It's also a cupboard for cleaning stuff and a cordless vacuum cleaner, and has storage for salt bocks,  spare water filters and MVHR filters.  I even carpeted it a couple of weeks ago!

 

Being able to just walk into a carpeted space, which has a PIR operated light that comes on as you enter, and do things like add salt to the softener, change the MVHR filters or get data from the house logger, is very useful.

Edited November 22, 2017 by JSHarris

[joe90]

I too have a plant cupboard with everything in except the MVHR which is in a warm loft. It also has the washing machine and all cleaning products and tools for the house ( well it will have when I finish the build ?).

[RandAbuild]

This is a subject very close to my heart and with a new build designed from scratch, there should be few reasons not to try to minimise future maintenance.

Here is our (almost completed) MVHR cupboard, which also houses the network /data hub and TV aerial hub.

I've also just finished the soffit ceiling under the entrance porch, which is finished in cream uPVC soffit boards. Even though this is very sheltered, it will never need painting.

[SteamyTea]

I find things inside the house generally not a problem (I am small, fit, lithe and agile).

But stuff outside is a real pain.  Painting or maintenance mainly.

So think about putting up scaffolding and ladders, how do you work over a porch.  Shame that fixing points can't be built in, that a cantilevered work platform can be fixed to, is not standard.

 

And never fit anything that is not a standard size.  My bath is a bit smaller than most, and now it is going to cost a lot to change it.

Edited November 22, 2017 by SteamyTea

[joe90]

Yes I hate 1500 baths and I am short?

[MikeSharp01]

21 minutes ago, SteamyTea said:

(I am small, fit, lithe and agile).

Straight from your Tinder profile eh Steamy.

[SteamyTea]

[Squid102]

We visited a Passive House last week where the MVHR was in the utility room.

 

Render: I really like the look of the silicone silicate renders for low/zero maintenance - hydrophobic, self cleaning and very durable. I rue the day we decided to paint our 1920s pebbledash.

[lizzie]

6 minutes ago, Squid102 said:

We visited a Passive House last week where the MVHR was in the utility room.

 

Render: I really like the look of the silicone silicate renders for low/zero maintenance - hydrophobic, self cleaning and very durable. I rue the day we decided to paint our 1920s pebbledash.

Our MVHR is in the plant room so very accessible. I wanted it somewhere I could get at it easily as having seen some up in the roof I knew that would not be an option for me as I wouldnt easily be able to change filters etc. We have a single storey house so roof space would have been limited in any event.

 

We have silicone render the Alumasc vented facade system. Pricey but I’m pleased with it, it has a guarantee and BBA cert and never needs painting.

[AliG]

Our aluminium soffits and eaves are about to be fitted, when I specified it I was just thinking about maintenance and how it looks, but looking at the house the other day I realised that the highest point is 9m above ground so if we had something that needed painting they'd probably be asking for the added expense of scaffolding to do it.

 

Sadly we have 3 MVHR units and 2 are in the loft. I wish I had asked them to move them into cupboards.

 

When designing the house everything I knew about I tried to place in a plant room, but the heating engineers didn't really think about this and just placed manifolds and MVHRs about the house for ease of access. Similarly we ended up with two consumer units, one of which is in a spare room wardrobe. These things tend to be specified by outside contractors who might not think about it the way we do so it bears watching. The CU was never finally placed until the electrician arrived and looked at the cable runs.

[lizzie]

1 hour ago, AliG said:

Our aluminium soffits and eaves are about to be fitted, when I specified it I was just thinking about maintenance and how it looks, but looking at the house the other day I realised that the highest point is 9m above ground so if we had something that needed painting they'd probably be asking for the added expense of scaffolding to do it.

 

Sadly we have 3 MVHR units and 2 are in the loft. I wish I had asked them to move them into cupboards.

 

When designing the house everything I knew about I tried to place in a plant room, but the heating engineers didn't really think about this and just placed manifolds and MVHRs about the house for ease of access. Similarly we ended up with two consumer units, one of which is in a spare room wardrobe. These things tend to be specified by outside contractors who might not think about it the way we do so it bears watching. The CU was never finally placed until the electrician arrived and looked at the cable runs.

I wanted aluminium fascias and soffits but the cost overspends on everything has pushed us so far over budget I am having to cut back where I can so we have hardwood ply with 4 coats of sadolin. They look good and should last for a few years before needing maintenance and by then I may be able to afford the aluminium. 

 

Have you got a photo of yours?

[AliG]

I'll post a pic in the next couple of weeks, they are being powder coated to match the window frames at the moment.

 

I'm not sure that they will be on when we move in!

[lizzie]

Thank you look forward to pics. My quotes were for powder coated to match roof as it has an edge profile.....one quote was 42k! Mad! We did get it down to under half that in the end (huge fascias and soffits) but it was still too much for now so I have painted them to match the roof. Its the only bit on the house that has any maintenence implications frustrating but needs must etc

 

We found a good supplier of powder coated rainwater goods if anyone is looking.  I have all hidden gutters up on the roof  but needed 3 downpipes and some bespoke swan necks (no hoppers). Guttercrest from Oswestry. Good price and quick turn around.

[Gone West]

We have a ground floor utility room with all the water, electricity and ventilation equipment in it. Next to the utility room we have a wet room, the reason behind that arrangement was that if there were a flood, in theory, the water could be directed into the shower drain.

[MarkA]

All sorts of useful observations here which are already triggering lots more thought on my part, so thank you.

 

On 11/21/2017 at 18:52, Bitpipe said:

I've not even fitted the external cowls yet (as I want to avoid them getting damaged while landscaping is ongoing) but was surprised at how few leafs etc made it onto the filter itself.

 

So not sure what the issues are with having them low down. 

 

@Bitpipe's response is a good reminder that several of these points are dependant on the context you are building in.  In our case one side of the building will be next to where the neighbour will be parking their cars, so a low level duct for MVHR in this position will almost definitely suck in exhaust fumes.  We also have the benefit of living next door to the site and already know that we are going see large volumes of silver birch and willow seeds and pollen (at certain times of the year we seem to be blanketed in the cotton wool parachutes of willow seeds) and this seems to deliberately target the Velux windows to get into the house.  We are pretty confident that our external filters are going to need clearing at least once per year, possibly more.

 

@TerryE - I am particularly keen on avoiding hidden joins.  Our existing house is a nightmare when it comes to maintenance, nothing seems to be easily reachable and maintenance tends to involve destruction of some sort to get access.  We plan on having a dropped ceiling in one section (ground floor) to give plenty of space for pipe, cables, ducts to run between two gable end sections of the new house.  Unfortunately the plant room (well large cupboard really) location is going to mean some bends are likely (so may be joins) so I am thinking of having an access hatch in the ceiling where the bends may be.

 

@SteamyTea - hadn't even considered your points about how to access certain areas on the outside.  We have no flexibility on changing the approved design so I will be adding this to my checklist for sure.  Standard sizes are important, especially with the passage of time.  We currently have a non-standard undersized toilet due to space constraints in the existing house - it was a real pain when the seat needed replacing due to a broken hinge type connector (limited options and expensive and never did quite match).

 

@PeterStarck - flooding... yes, good point (both external and internal flooding).  We theoretically don't have a flood risk at all... but... our neighbours had a serious flood through their house about 10 years ago and guess where the water came from?  It was run-off from the field opposite which slopes gently down towards our row of houses and the farmer had plowed the field the field in such a way that such a large volume of water was directed into a ditch along the road during a downpour that the ditch was overwhelmed, it then ran across the road and straight through the neighbour's house, leaving them knee deep in water.  We were very, very lucky not to be impacted.  We have friends whose houses have flood protection by a river and it is very unpleasant when they get flooded - so I will add @PeterStarck's point about the wetroom to my checklist. so at least it is considered.

 

Self cleaning glass on difficult to reach roof lights etc also seems worth considering.

 

I also fall into the school of thought that whatever home automation is felt is necessary needs to be carefully considered (as per another topic I saw recently).  This probably falls into the 'designing for inevitable change' topic, but the key is that you need to get access to change things as per @ProDave's point.

 

Edited November 24, 2017 by MarkA
typo

[MarkA]

Another question.  What have other people done when it comes to providing for routes through the fabric of the building to future proof the insertion of additional cabling/pipes etc without compromising the airtightness (or make it tricky to sort out) when the future change takes place?  I suppose this is a bit of a chicken and egg question since you don't really know where these future cables/pipes are going to go?

[Jeremy Harris]

I have a lot of ducts that all come up in one corner of the slab.  SOme are used, two are spare, but all of them are capped off with a ball of chicken wire stuffed down them, with a stout bit of wire attached to be able to pull it out and then some foam squirted in.  The foam was cut level around the wire when it had cured and some airtightness tape added.

 

If I need to get something else in, the  it's a matter of unplugging the duct, running the new cable, pipe or whatever in and then sealing it up again.

 

The ball of chicken wire (or expanded metal) does two things.  It acts as a rodent barrier, to stop them getting at the foam and chewing it, and with the wire anchored to it it acts as a way to pull the plug out, complete with the foam.  I've already had to pull one out, and I found that expanding foam doesn't stick that well to the inside of smooth ducts.

[Ferdinand]

On 22/11/2017 at 19:49, Squid102 said:

I rue the day we decided to paint our 1920s pebbledash.

 

:-) 

 

Identify with that. I have a particular T who wants to paint grey pebbledash white. Have been saying no since 2010. The dash has been there for 120 years.

 

In my LIttle Brown Bungalow rental, I had a small panel of traditional render done last week, and made it self-coloured by using local red sand that is redder than all the normal red sands. In the sun it looks almost Spanish. Hopefully no maintenance ever.

 

There is much to be said by installing preparatory ducts and eg ready to plumb spare radiator connections in case it is not as airtight as expected. 

 

On the LBB I put in ducts to three likely places where media systems may go, with drawstrings in place, when I was insulating under the floor - and also a pair of double sockets at the same points. The aim is to stop Virgin and friends wrecking the fabric.

 

All of my paths there are loose laid pavers over loose gravel with the pavers 150mm from the house wall  which means that any cables can just be run in the 2-3" of gravel, and it covers the duct exits.

 

All of my pipes and cable are run under a floating floor in channels between the insulation, which has osb over then Click fit Laminate or carpet, so it can all be accessed. The install let leckys and gassers work much more quickly and with direct runs, but the compromises in trimming doors etc may make it marginal.

 

There are quite a few other threads on related subjects.

 

When you buy things you always want spares ... if you ask just before saying YES then they should throw in a couple to clinch it. EG I have a couple of spare solar panels and Solaredge modules obtained that way.

 

Also take care with products that wear down to have enough spares to replace worn out bits. I am thinking of laminate floor, but also you need a strategy in case your little darlings drive their electric pedal cars through a kitchen cupboard door, especially if you have one of those immaculately modern kitchens and design range that change every 2 years or so.

 

On flooding do not forget that your pipes can flood. Plastic pipes are more resilient to freezing if you use the right plastic. I now always install ... going from the water meter side ... an anti-hardness device then a Surestop on the house side of the main stop tap, and it is switched off during overnights away.

 

Ferdinand

 

 

 

Edited November 24, 2017 by Ferdinand