Retaining Wall Inspection By Neighbours Structural engineer... Questions.

[farang]

I have agreed to allow structural engineer on to my land to inspect next doors retaining wall. Should I allow him to take pics of my land?, I feel fine about him taking pics of the retaining wall but feel uncomfortable about pics of my land.

 

I have done some digging out , but no where near their retaining wall.  The people next door are very dis agreeable & things could not get any worse between us. thanks

[ProDave]

A bit more context is needed.  Why are they looking at the retaining wall?  Is it failing?  Are they expecting to come onto your land to repair it?  Are they blaming you for it's failure?

[farang]

Ive had solicitors letters threatening to get a court order to allow them onto my land to inspect their wall & fence.

Bushes planted a long time ago, in their garden as close as possible to their retaining wall has caused their wall to bulge, they are trying to blame me for it.

Where I've dug out its at least 10 feet away. I have pics of their wall before I did anything, its exactly the same now as before.

It's quite clear cut, but I'm very wary of the situation. Thanks

[Mr Punter]

I would not have an issue with giving access to inspect a wall.  Get an assurance from the engineer that the inspection will be limited to assessing the condition of their wall and fence.

[elite]

Presumably you want the reatining wall to be stabalised, so I would be helpful as far as possible without it negatively impacting you significantly. 

 

What were the nature of the works you undertook to dig out? Was anyone involved to assess the impact on the wall?

 

It is good that you have photos of the wall before works were undertaken

[joe90]

15 hours ago, farang said:

but feel uncomfortable about pics of my land.

Why? What have you got to hide? If as you say their bushes etc are causing the problem then the inspector will see that, plus if that wall fails it will fall on your land so it’s in your interest to let them get on with it surely.

[Alan Ambrose]

Ah tricky neighbours, don't you love them?

 

>>> they are trying to blame me for it.

 

Ah you sure that's the case or is that just a fear?

 

There are a couple of options:

 

(1) If you're sure they're just causing unnecessary trouble, then I might string them along and let them get their court order. Write to the solicitor as often as you can to bulk up their legal bill. In the meantime, be assertive and send your pictures to them with a polite but firm letter. By all means chat to them in person and see if you can defuse the situation and thereby stop wasting your joint resources.

 

(2) If you're sure you have not caused a problem, give them access, and give the SE your dated photos, bend the SE's ear re your theories about their plants.

 

 

[joe90]

Option 1/ will only make relations worse IMO

 

option 2/ will be open and show your willing to be co operative and probably defuse the situation somewhat.

[Iceverge]

16 hours ago, farang said:

Should I allow him to take pics of my land?

 

Are you growing weed or developing some commercially sensitive form of geranium? If not I can't see the issue. 

 

16 hours ago, farang said:

The people next door are very dis agreeable & things could not get any worse between us.

 

Can you elaborate please. Have they engaged with you informally and if so how did you respond? Escalating things to the solicitors level seems drastic and in the long term only benefits the solicitor. 

 

12 hours ago, farang said:

they are trying to blame me for it.

 

Have they explicitly said this? 

 

 

 

[Alan Ambrose]

>>> Option 1/ will only make relations worse IMO

 

I think sometimes you need to be firm with unreasonable people. As an example: I have a neighbour to my plot who recently declared "water from the rear of your plot is not going to cross our property". He hasn't given a reason or any hint about what kind of problem this might cause, if any. I have been perfectly pleasant to him to date. The drainage is, of course, very important for us and historically there has been drainage ditch there (now a culvert, converted before I bought the plot). It runs in his direction and all the neighbours use it for rainwater drainage and treatment plant outflow. I have sent him a pamphlet from our LPA describing how riparian rights work with the relevant sections highlighted. He hasn't replied. Next I will offer him the opportunity to withdraw his statement/threat or the alternative of a solicitor's letter confirming how riparian rights work.

 

In my experience there's always someone trying to take the piss. You can try and deal with them sensibly and argue them round. But sometimes you have to treat fire with fire.

[farang]

Thank you for the replies, I invited them round to see how their bushes roots are pushing their wall down, they  stated that they expect me to repair their wall, only because Im doing work on my land. I've dug down about 4 feet, this is about 10 feet away from their retaining wall. There is no ground movement between, I have nothing illegal going on,I just don't want pics taken of my land & property. 

 

They have been saying the most dreadful things about my family, god only know why. It's to a point that its impossible to forgive & its clear what dreadful people they are. They have never engaged with me to sought out any issues, just by their solicitors writing to me, so far I'm responding as its all rather pathetic & easy to bat off, in whats being said.

[Mr Punter]

I am sorry this has escalated.  Do allow their structural engineer to carry out an inspection.  Try to avoid this becoming a dispute, as it may affect any future sale of your property if it is not resolved.  Roots from bushes should not cause a retaining wall to move so perhaps it has not been properly designed or it needs replacing.

[Kelvin]

There’s no reason to let them take photographs of anything other than the retaining wall. The SE won’t want to get involved in whatever the wider dispute is. They will have heard it all from your neighbour. Don’t give in to the temptation of you telling the SE your side of the story just concentrate on the wall and nothing else. 

[saveasteading]

16 minutes ago, Mr Punter said:

Do allow their structural engineer to carry out an inspection.

 

Presumably this will be a fully qualified and independent Structural Engineer. Don't be shy about asking and getting their full details.

That might be IStructE or MICE ,  Or  FStructE or FICE for most senior.

 

MICE would be fine, but few people know that this includes Structures.

 

Why?   SE can be used as a term without too much detail, sometimes misleadingly. eg a Building Surveyor.

Also I feel they must be working as an independent consultant , not the representative of a contractor.

 

 

Any SEs on here might be able to advise on the ethical position. But as a Chartered Civil Engineer, my loyalty has to be first to society/ the world  at large and secondly to a client.

ie it isn't like other professions where you can twist the truth to make a case for the person paying.

 

Thus you could sensibly ask the SE what their brief is, before allowing them access.  It should be  quite clear, and not just 'the neighbour has asked me to look around for anything that might be  a problem'.

 

a sensible brief might be ' the neighbour thinks that the retaining wall is moving/ breaking up and asked me to look for any likely cause including on your property.'

 

btw feel free to put up a sketch or photo, keeping it anonymous.

[farang]

Thanks for that, I've  found the S'E' web site its states,

ICIOB MEWI

Qualifications

• Associate Member Architecture and Surveying Institute
• 2003 Incorporated Member Chartered Institute of Building
• 2013 Member of Expert Witness Institute

[Mike]

22 hours ago, farang said:

I have pics of their wall before I did anything, its exactly the same now as before.

If you can prove roughly when they were taken, it may be worth showing them to the SE as evidence that this is not a recent problem.

[Gus Potter]

22 hours ago, farang said:

Ive had solicitors letters threatening to get a court order to allow them onto my land to inspect their wall & fence.

A few general comments on posts all worth a good read and consideration.

 

Mine are:

 

1/ Do your best to take the heat out of things.

 

2/ Allow access for your neighbours representative to take all round photographs. State that you want to avoid any escalation of call it a "misunderstanding / communication breakdown" rather than a dispute. Don't use the word dispute or other verbage that suggests a big barny.. use words like you want to "alleviate" their concerns (excuse my spelling / grammer !) I'm not being soft here.. just say this ended up in court.. any aggressive language you use at this early stage could come back to bite you.

 

3/ Don't ask for their representatives credentials at this stage as it will just get their back up. If for example they breach the data protection act for example then there will trouble for them later. Just go with the flow for now credential wise. I do a bit of dispute work from time to time.. at the end of the day its that facts of the matter that you can prove by calculation and reference to design codes and other literature for example. Await their report.. if its a load of bollocks then plenty time to rip it to death later. Sometimes you need to give folk enough rope to hang themselves on!

 

4/ Be amenable and agree a time for a visit from the neighbours representative. But state that you also want access to their property on the same day for you to take photographs and a short video. In other words watch what their rep does and replicate on their side.. the video is important as your camera may be a bit "wobbly" and may wander a bit.. record your information and sent it to your neighbour's rep and an independant person on the same day.

 

This is arguably fair. But most importantly is the technical approach to resolving a problem like this.. you want photographic evidence from both sides of the wall on the same day, with the same weather conditions and so on.

 

5/ Do NOT share any photographs / drawings / local authority permissions etc relating to any construction work you have carried out at this stage.

 

6/ Ask their representative when they think thier report will be avialable.

 

That's all for now best of luck from my end.

 

 

Edited October 9 by Gus Potter

[saveasteading]

2 hours ago, Gus Potter said:

Don't ask for their representatives credentials at this stage as

You've got it anyway.

 

Not an SE.

If I understand it, ICIOB is a preliminary to MCIOB.

 

I hadn't heard of MEWI but it promisingly states:

  to support the proper administration of justice and the early resolution of disputes through high-quality expert evidence from specialists

 

Andy more specialists to be at their expense?

 

Good luck.

[farang]

Thank you.

[Alan Ambrose]

I think I might be tempted to engage my own (proper) SE to do a survey of both sides of the wall at the same time as the other guy.

 

The scenario you want to head off is 'pseudo-SE states problem is all down to you' followed by 'immediate claim of your liability and promptly whisked into court'. The 'expert witness' thing is maybe a bit of a red flag?

 

At that stage you would be arguing (their) SE's qualifications and since it would be in the lower courts, the result might be a bit random.

 

If you were able to present your proper SE's analysis and report at the same time, that might just head the problem off.

[saveasteading]

13 minutes ago, Alan Ambrose said:

expert witness' thing is maybe a bit of a red flag?

They are not an SE. Any SE might be an expert witness in structural matters.

It's up to you but I say don't get drawn in. They might even tell your neighbour that there is no case.

Do have a witness though.

[Gus Potter]

On 10/10/2024 at 20:53, Alan Ambrose said:

I think I might be tempted to engage my own (proper) SE to do a survey of both sides of the wall at the same time as the other guy.

 

The scenario you want to head off is 'pseudo-SE states problem is all down to you' followed by 'immediate claim of your liability and promptly whisked into court'. The 'expert witness' thing is maybe a bit of a red flag?

 

At that stage you would be arguing (their) SE's qualifications and since it would be in the lower courts, the result might be a bit random.

 

If you were able to present your proper SE's analysis and report at the same time, that might just head the problem off.

I kind of agree but the timing is important. I would be inclined to nuance it a bit. There is probably a bit of history to this and that needs to be understood first. Without having all the facts my inclination is, as I said earlier, to take heat out the situation. Unfortunately I do get involved in dispute work from time to time, I don't do ambulance chasing but will put my heart and sole into helping folk where I can when they get stuck through not fault of their own.

 

In terms of stategy @farang I suspect this may have been cooking up for a while? Let them send their guy / doll etc to have a look and see what they say.. strangely you may hear nothing more or suddenly find they want to make friends with you. Their representative may find something badly wrong with that they have done on their side of the boundary and advise them not to throw stones at you!

 

I have seen this before were neighbours think they have a rub.. they get themselves worked up into a fankle (a Scottish term for a state of frenzy where we don't think clearly) and don't realise how the real world works until it is too late.. then it is hard for them to back down. Often to sort this out you need someone experienced in resolving things rather than a pile of letters after their name. Ideally you want someone who is street wise, has life experience, who has the ability to be hard nosed that will fight your corner with a soft personable outer shell.

 

Often in cases like this I like to see just what the opposition has in the tank first, look for they don't say rather than what they do say. No point in getting your own SE at the moment until you see what they are complaining about and the technical argument they are putting forward to support their case.

 

 

Edited October 11 by Gus Potter

[SteamyTea]

Does your household insurance cover this sort of thing?

Some do I believe.

[joe90]

10 minutes ago, SteamyTea said:

Does your household insurance cover this sort of thing?

Some do I believe.

But nothing has been found that you have done wrong yet, let the inspector do his job and see what the outcome is, if the OP is right the damage has been caused by the neighbours plants etc so let’s not assume the worst.

[farang]

On 10/10/2024 at 21:13, saveasteading said:

They are not an SE. Any SE might be an expert witness in structural matters.

It's up to you but I say don't get drawn in. They might even tell your neighbour that there is no case.

Do have a witness though.

A witness to the inspection? I was going to record it.