Sharing Fee Proposal with other Architect

[flanagaj]

So we have received three fee proposals for our modernist planning submission.  One of them is definitely our favourite as them have a fantastic contemporary portfolio, but they are coming in at 15K + vat for design and planning submission.  The others are coming in at around half of that amount.   I have gone back and explained that whilst we think their portfolio is our favourite, I don't have the budget and that the others have come in at around 7k.  They have requested I send across the other fee proposals so they can take a look and compare what is being offered.   I feel a little uncomfortable about doing this and am not sure how to proceed.

 

[nod]

It’s your design that matters Not there portfolio Most of the detailed drawings will be done by others 

Roof floors steels etc 

15k is a lot to spend on design 

[flanagaj]

14 minutes ago, nod said:

It’s your design that matters Not there portfolio Most of the detailed drawings will be done by others 

Roof floors steels etc 

15k is a lot to spend on design 

I have a good idea what we want, but I am hoping that a very good modernist architect can add subtle details which I won’t have considered.

[nod]

40 minutes ago, flanagaj said:

I have a good idea what we want, but I am hoping that a very good modernist architect can add subtle details which I won’t have considered.

It’s a lot of money to to add details 

Lots of design ideas online 

I’m not sure what your budget is 

But we are sub 1000m2 for the second time Keep fees down is a good start 

Most of your design will be made workable by others Have a look at a typical Architects working drawing 

Foundations to be done by others 

Floors to be done by others 

Roof and steels to be done by others 

Modern design You will pay the Architect to add large runs of glass 

Be he or she won’t do the practical side of it 

Yes you’ve guessed it By others 

 

 

 

 

[Alan Ambrose]

I think it is a little unprofessional to share the whole proposal without explicit permission. You could briefly describe the scope so the other architect can check you’re not mistakenly comparing apples & oranges.

 

I accidentally copied a proposal from one SI specialist to another when emailing an SE. I was really embarrassed and apologised to both.

[flanagaj]

The firm I really like is this one - AR Design Studio | Contemporary Architects Winchester

I am now thinking that it's like us going to a Ferrari garage, when we can only afford a cheap car.   I suspect they will design us a cracking house, but it will come at a construction cost that exceeds our lean £1500/m2 budget.

 

[MikeSharp01]

Then you will need to do a lot of value engineering or borrowing.

[G and J]

1 hour ago, flanagaj said:

I am now thinking that it's like us going to a Ferrari garage, when we can only afford a cheap car.   I suspect they will design us a cracking house, but it will come at a construction cost that exceeds our lean £1500/m2 budget.

 

 

Have you told them your budget?......when we were first meeting with architects

on site to decide who to go with we made our criteria clear......we wanted to be hands on throughout; we wanted them to work from our initial layout;  and crucially we wanted to be able to buid in budget.......otherwise there is always the danger of falling for something you really shouldn't be trying to afford.... remember not all archiects " do money" and sometimes they draw stuff that can't sensibly be built

[Dave Jones]

12 hours ago, flanagaj said:

The firm I really like is this one - AR Design Studio | Contemporary Architects Winchester

I am now thinking that it's like us going to a Ferrari garage, when we can only afford a cheap car.   I suspect they will design us a cracking house, but it will come at a construction cost that exceeds our lean £1500/m2 budget.

 

 

1500 isnt going to pay for a mega cheap to build legoland box let alone anything out the ordinary. 

 

Bog standard rates are double that. 

 

Reality check time.

[flanagaj]

29 minutes ago, Dave Jones said:

 

1500 isnt going to pay for a mega cheap to build legoland box let alone anything out the ordinary. 

 

Bog standard rates are double that. 

 

Reality check time.

We'll have to agree to disagree.  Brother in Law did a large 300M2 property recently, and to a nice high spec < £1200 m2.  He employed most trades.  

[Russell griffiths]

16 hours ago, flanagaj said:

I have a good idea what we want, but I am hoping that a very good modernist architect can add subtle details which I won’t have considered.

Subtle details will cost you money, do you have the budget for an architect that will include lots of nice subtle design features. 
 

they will look amazing, but this is where your £100,000 overspend goes. 
 

 

just read the rest of the posts, with your budget I think you need to forget the expensive architect immediately. 

Edited August 16 by Russell griffiths

[TommoUK]

..sounds expensive for planning drawings.  have they also quoted for the technical (working) drawings?  

 

planning drawings just provide the basics.. simple layout plans, sections & elevations and will be cheaper than the next stage required for building regs / contractors to work to etc..

 

[flanagaj]

43 minutes ago, Russell griffiths said:

Subtle details will cost you money, do you have the budget for an architect that will include lots of nice subtle design features. 
 

they will look amazing, but this is where your £100,000 overspend goes. 
 

 

just read the rest of the posts, with your budget I think you need to forget the expensive architect immediately. 

 

Thanks.  This is the conclusion that I have come to now.

[flanagaj]

37 minutes ago, TommoUK said:

..sounds expensive for planning drawings.  have they also quoted for the technical (working) drawings?  

 

planning drawings just provide the basics.. simple layout plans, sections & elevations and will be cheaper than the next stage required for building regs / contractors to work to etc..

 

Including the technical drawings it was coming in at 23k

[TommoUK]

..you could just put the other quotes in a schedule and reference which RIBA stages the quotes include..

[Carrerahill]

20 hours ago, flanagaj said:

So we have received three fee proposals for our modernist planning submission.  One of them is definitely our favourite as them have a fantastic contemporary portfolio, but they are coming in at 15K + vat for design and planning submission.  The others are coming in at around half of that amount.   I have gone back and explained that whilst we think their portfolio is our favourite, I don't have the budget and that the others have come in at around 7k.  They have requested I send across the other fee proposals so they can take a look and compare what is being offered.   I feel a little uncomfortable about doing this and am not sure how to proceed.

 

Don't ask us, read the fee proposal, ours states:

 

"This document is for the exclusive use of XXX and should not be used in whole or in part by any third parties without the express written permission of XXX"

 

In other words, this fee is private, between you and I. 

 

I would need to really sit down with one of the 7k quotes and the 15k quote and understand to what stage are they designing, is there a site stage, have they allowed meetings, Teams and Site, what is included, what is excluded, does the 15k include EPC's, statutory application costs, with Mr 15K do variations and hold your hand, will Mr. 7K bill you another 10K in variations and fees?

 

Does Mr 15K perhaps include M&E consultancy, other consultants? 

 

Edited August 16 by Carrerahill

[ETC]

17 hours ago, nod said:

It’s a lot of money to to add details 

Lots of design ideas online 

I’m not sure what your budget is 

But we are sub 1000m2 for the second time Keep fees down is a good start 

Most of your design will be made workable by others Have a look at a typical Architects working drawing 

Foundations to be done by others 

Floors to be done by others 

Roof and steels to be done by others 

Modern design You will pay the Architect to add large runs of glass 

Be he or she won’t do the practical side of it 

Yes you’ve guessed it By others 

 

 

 

 

Lazy architects do this. A good architect will - if appointed to take the drawings to tender stage - will specify EVERYTHING. If you’re faced with a sample drawing that says that an element is “by others” don’t use them.

 

Sometimes I think that most posters have hired very poor architects (if they are even architects!). There are good ones out there and they won’t cost the earth.

[saveasteading]

Everybody here is correct. It depends on what you want, where you are, your budget, your own skills.  

I've seen very basic drawings by the end user put in for planning and getting approval. They should not have been, but it was a basic extension and uncontroversial.

Or you could have every detail covered: but that is not necessary for planning....and perhaps not for construction.

Some architects plaster their drawings with generic statements, often repeated.

 

'By others' is fair enough. I don't want an Architect or architect  designing electrics or plumbing or any structure that isn't standard and off  a table.

 

£3k for concept and planning? More if the building has complexity or the site is unusual or needs reports for planning.

£15k is for a one-off design with complexities in design and for planning, and any special details thought out. Or an Architect on a roll in a wealthy area.

 

 

 

 

 

[Sparrowhawk]

1 hour ago, saveasteading said:

Or an Architect on a roll in a wealthy area.

 

It's a practice with (I assume) a good reputation and demonstrable work, and located in Winchester. There's certainly an element of this.

[nod]

3 hours ago, ETC said:

Lazy architects do this. A good architect will - if appointed to take the drawings to tender stage - will specify EVERYTHING. If you’re faced with a sample drawing that says that an element is “by others” don’t use them.

 

Sometimes I think that most posters have hired very poor architects (if they are even architects!). There are good ones out there and they won’t cost the earth.

Most tend to rely on SE drawings and rarely get involved with rooms 

[ETC]

3 hours ago, nod said:

Most tend to rely on SE drawings and rarely get involved with rooms 

Huh?