Why insulate

[Oz07]

  On 03/12/2017 at 12:25, Nickfromwales said:

It's a digression, but I think your logic is arse over tit with that statement. 

If someone lights a fire now and then youd still rather a lifetime of high and higher fuel bills

 

Not me . I'd go passive in the wink of an eye. Then all the money your used to throwing at the energy companies can be thrown to your mortgage instead. It's a no-brained afaic.  

I hate the house we're in, as I'm paying to keep it warm and like @Onoff I can literally hear the meters going round whilst I continue to pump heat in to offset its draughty inefficient ways, but capital expenditure puts any sensible anti-measures in place. . 

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I'm not saying I want to use a wood burner and live in a draughty house. I built the house I'm in now last year 150mm cav, double glazing, gsh no wood burning! Was easy to build, bills are low ish and mortgage lenders will readily lend on it when I decide to sell. It's perfectly logical really and just depends how much you value your time. 

 

You have a good understanding of the mechanical aspects from your trade so you might enjoy the concept of passive. I wasn't knocking anyone who does it at all but just admitting it's beyond me and my efforts are better spent elsewhere. I think @joe90 is about where I'd want to be next time I build one for myself. 

[Declan52]

  On 03/12/2017 at 11:08, JSHarris said:

 

I have external finned vents and the intake one regularly clogs with cobwebs and fluffy seeds.  The "old man's beard" fluff seem the worst of the fluffy seeds, as there is loads of it in the hedges around here and I'm forever having to get up a ladder and brush the intake grille clear.  Being able to do this from ground level would be a lot easier.

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@JSHarris what about one of these with a brush or even a roller attached and maybe a set of steps to reach up if needed.

https://www.screwfix.com/p/harris-3-section-aluminium-extension-pole-3m/10063

Edited December 3, 2017 by Declan52

[Oz07]

Btw @Nickfromwales how much is your annual gas and leccy? Going on what plumbers charge at the minute I bet you earn it in a week or two! Mines around 5/600, 3 days of your time sir!

[Onoff]

I'd love to go passive but I'd want a traditional, "solid", feature exterior like maybe @sussexlogs with all the flint detailing. 

 

You MUST have a partner who is willing to buy into it. Best I can hope for without a major windfall is a slow, torturous raft of improvements on what I have. 

 

 

 

 

 

[Jeremy Harris]

I think what we need to do is de-mystify the whole low energy house building thing.  I'm guilty of using science and technology here that helps some, but probably confuses and puts off others, and I'm not the only one.

 

We've had step changes in house building many times over the centuries, from wood and mud huts, to stone houses, then, more recently the introduction of cavity walls and damp proof courses, and more recently still the incorporation of insulation in houses from new (our old house that was built in the late 70's early 80's had no insulation at all, for example).

 

There's nothing magical about making a more energy efficient house, it's just that solving one problem tends to create a need to solve other problems that arise.  This is no different to things like the introduction of cavity walls, they solved the problem of water penetration but created another problem - much higher heat loss than some thick solid walled houses.  Our first cavity wall house was icy when compared to the several hundred year old stone cottages we'd lived in before, for example.

 

We're still working through the solutions to the problems created by reducing heat loss, like needing to provide MVHR because we've improved airtightness to reduce unwanted ventilation heat loss, or needing to fit vapour control barriers on the inside of houses because we've improved the wall and roof insulation to the point where interstitial condensation can be a risk.

 

Gradually, all these things will just naturally migrate into normal building practice, much as the fitting of central heating to houses has.  I bet there were a lot of people who felt that central heating was complicated and unnecessary addition when it first came out.

Edited December 3, 2017 by JSHarris
typo

[Jeremy Harris]

  On 03/12/2017 at 13:24, Declan52 said:

@JSHarris what about one of these with a brush or even a roller attached and maybe a set of steps to reach up if needed.

https://www.screwfix.com/p/harris-3-section-aluminium-extension-pole-3m/10063

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I have a Heath Robinson alternative, I stand on a step ladder and the stiff yard broom can just reach, and does a reasonable job of cleaning the fins!

[Onoff]

  On 03/12/2017 at 13:24, Oz07 said:

Btw @Nickfromwales how much is your annual gas and leccy? Going on what plumbers charge at the minute I bet you earn it in a week or two! Mines around 5/600, 3 days of your time sir!

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Like I said earlier just done £900 on oil (no gas). That's without leccy. About £2K a year here.

 

With my boy at uni i.e more space and his room spare I often half consider putting a scaffold over the whole place then redoing the roof then re-jigging the dormer to temporarily include a kitchen and living room. Then gut downstairs in one hit. Blitz the exterior and go 3G / EWI. 

 

It's only having to do a day job and the lack of £££ stopping me!

 

 

[Nickfromwales]

  On 03/12/2017 at 13:24, Oz07 said:

Btw @Nickfromwales how much is your annual gas and leccy? Going on what plumbers charge at the minute I bet you earn it in a week or two! Mines around 5/600, 3 days of your time sir!

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It's not how much you earn, it's what you want ( or don't want ) to spend it on. 

 

[Onoff]

I still think Government is set against widespread fuel efficient homes/cars as it risks losing revenue on a massive scale.

 

Whoever invents small scale point of use hydrogen generation or similar from good old H2O is on borrowed time. Conspiracy theorists say it's already happened. Check out the Paul Pantone and Stanley Meyer stories.

 

[Jeremy Harris]

Governments have always been creative when it comes to generating taxes.  Before we had things like cars to tax, there were taxes on things like windows, for example - the more windows you had in your house, the more tax you paid.

 

At one time or another governments have taxed just about everything going, so I'm sure they can come up with ways to raise revenue if they start losing it from fuel taxation.

[SteamyTea]

  On 03/12/2017 at 12:00, JSHarris said:

A tree that falls and decays naturally releases CO₂ at a rate that's pretty close to the uptake rate of the living trees around it.

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It does not convert all stored carbon to CO₂ and CH₄. Around 40% becomes relatively inert "soil" that is one of the largest carbon stores we have.  It is about 5% by mass in the first 100mm of soil depth (Upson et al, 2016),  reforestation of pastoral land is even better.  SO planting new trees is a better idea that managing existing forests.

There is also a lot of scope to vary the types of trees planted if you want to sequester carbon in soil, but balancing growth rate, decomposition rate and leaf fall.  That is before plantation location is considered.

 

As for the 'black helicopters'.  Whenever @JSHarris mates fly over Porthleven heading towards Goldsithney or Relubus (where SarahSW lives, what happened to her), I think of this.

 

[Ferdinand]

Can we go all Georgian, and tax bifold doors?

[Simplysimon]

  On 02/12/2017 at 18:38, Onoff said:

The FiL burns ANYTHING inc MDF and chipboard in his wood burner. Periodically has to decoke the boiler flue. Nasty!

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only thing mdf is good for ! 

[Ferdinand]

  On 03/12/2017 at 14:18, Simplysimon said:

only thing mdf is good for ! 

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Slander ! Libel !

 

It was only last week that I bought an 18mm sheet of MDF at B&Q for £19.50 (reduced to £19.36 by B&Q Trade Discount). (*)

 

The nice man on the saw cut it into 11 slices of 3, 4 or 5 inches for me, to make radiator shelves (to prevent Tenants drying washing on radiators) and door liners.

 

F

 

* I shall treat myself to one two-finger KitKat with that.

 

Edited December 3, 2017 by Ferdinand

[SteamyTea]

Are you allowed to burn MDF and chipboard legally.  I would have thought is was treated timber.

[Jeremy Harris]

  On 03/12/2017 at 16:20, SteamyTea said:

Are you allowed to burn MDF and chipboard legally.  I would have thought is was treated timber.

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I suspect not, as it doesn't burn well and probably gives off some pretty nasty stuff when it is burned.

[Nickfromwales]

  On 02/12/2017 at 15:07, Onoff said:

That's got be a risk albeit a small one if somebody "had it in for you" and decided to feed something nasty in via the MVHR intake. 

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One Bond film too many ? ?

[Onoff]

  On 03/12/2017 at 14:18, Simplysimon said:

only thing mdf is good for ! 

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Primed and painted scrap cover boards from the local timber yard:

 

 

[Onoff]

  On 03/12/2017 at 17:15, Nickfromwales said:

One Bond film too many ? ?

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2002 Moscow theatre siege?

[Nickfromwales]

  On 03/12/2017 at 17:48, Onoff said:

 

2002 Moscow theatre siege?

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No more Speckled Hen for you tonight.   

[Simplysimon]

  On 03/12/2017 at 16:54, JSHarris said:

 

I suspect not, as it doesn't burn well and probably gives off some pretty nasty stuff when it is burned.

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burns well in the wood burner and puts out a fierce heat, probably does do the second though

[Onoff]

  On 03/12/2017 at 18:54, Nickfromwales said:

No more Speckled Hen for you tonight.   

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I'll have you know I've been dry for 3 weeks now. No particular reason why...old man was in hospital so I couldn't / wouldn't drink and drive, then I had man flu. Just haven't had the urge. 

 

The Cobra, Doom Bar & Whitstable Bay Pale Ale in the fridge have just sat there. They're not even calling to me...

[Onoff]

Back on thread...

 

If you EWI a traditional house what's the score with trying to mitigate heat loss where internal walls come up or is it something you just live with? Say like mine with suspended timber floors.

[Ferdinand]

  On 03/12/2017 at 21:01, Onoff said:

Back on thread...

 

If you EWI a traditional house what's the score with trying to mitigate heat loss where internal walls come up or is it something you just live with? Say like mine with suspended timber floors.

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Depends how you have insulated it.

 

A skirt would keep them warm, assuming no side draughts. /metaphor

 

If you have cross flow then you probably have to suck it up.

 

Gable walls into the attic may lose more heat by conduction, as the ground is warm.

Edited December 3, 2017 by Ferdinand

[ProDave]

There has been a lot of EWI applied up here, mostly to social housing. They always seem to take the EWI right down to ground level. They also seem to cover any air bricks in the process.  Obe can only wonder what trouble this is storing up for the future.

 

A suspended timber floor can be well insulated, but unless you have a really good crawl space, you would not want to do it from underneath, in fact you would not want to even wit a good crawl space. It really is a boards up in every room job.