twice round the block Posted July 14 Share Posted July 14 Labour have just given the go ahead for a 2.500 acre solar farm in East Anglia. So they've just take away prime food production land for solar production. In the 1980's we we're 81% food self sufficient. This has declined year on year and now stands at 64%. So why are we destroying good agricultural land for another vanity project. HS2 has already taken out thousands of acres of land out of production. Any one have any information on the nutritional value and a recipe for a solar panel.? Someone will start bleating on about factory farming. Is there another option for feeding a growing population.? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProDave Posted July 14 Share Posted July 14 Here is a thought. Can't a solar farm share the same land as a wind farm? Mostly built in hills so not productive farmland. Yes some panels would get some shading from the towers but it would seem to be a good dual use of land and infrastructure. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe90 Posted July 14 Share Posted July 14 4 minutes ago, twice round the block said: So they've just take away prime food production land for solar production Is it prime agricultural land? When planning went in for a solar farm near my build it had to be on non prime land. 5 minutes ago, twice round the block said: another vanity project. Is it vanity ? If we want to pollute less solar is one of the options, also price wise is the gain financially better than producing food when we can buy it from elsewhere? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Thomas Posted July 14 Share Posted July 14 17 minutes ago, ProDave said: Here is a thought. Can't a solar farm share the same land as a wind farm? Mostly built in hills so not productive farmland. Yes some panels would get some shading from the towers but it would seem to be a good dual use of land and infrastructure. These do exist: https://www.ecotricity.co.uk/our-news/2022/our-two-new-hybrid-parks-have-launched-today Food self-sufficiency is a bit of a red herring here; national strategy is focused on security of supply, and isn't particularly bothered about small-scale land swaps in and out of agriculture. The UK has 17 million hectares of agricultural land; taking 1K hectares away reduces food production capacity by 0.006%. Or to put it another way, we could do 200 of these before the impact was worth walking about. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triassic Posted July 14 Share Posted July 14 Simply make the legs of the solar support structure taller and graze livestock below. Even more controversial, make it a planning requirement to install solar on all new building. Maybe even improve the build quality of homes, so we use less energy!!!! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DamonHD Posted July 14 Share Posted July 14 Proposed the last two for our local plan... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Thomas Posted July 14 Share Posted July 14 Oh nice, it's battery storage as well as PV. https://sunnica.co.uk/ . So already a kind of hybrid site. Another way to model this would be that we're swapping 0.006% (ish) of our agricultural land to increase our generation capacity by 0.06% (ish). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LSB Posted July 14 Share Posted July 14 the site near us, built about 8 yrs ago only got planning by agreeing to graze their sheep in the same field. I walk past there at least once per week with the dog, never been a sheep near the place, only agreed to get planning. But, the alternative was wind and the solar is so much quieter 🙂 Of course it's impossible for me to tell if it's even running as it's silent, just lots of cameras. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnMo Posted July 14 Share Posted July 14 2 hours ago, twice round the block said: Labour have just given the go ahead for a 2.500 acre solar farm in East Anglia. Good, we need more. Better than a field or ten or smelly pigs like we have near us. Best producing sites normally have sheep or cows to keep grass and weeds at bay. Vertical panels and crops go well together also so are ideally for food production Not all land east Anglia is prime farming land. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Temp Posted July 14 Share Posted July 14 East Anglia has numerous disused airfield that would be a better choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteamyTea Posted July 14 Share Posted July 14 I think class A farmland gives a better cash return than a solar farm, so only an idiot would swap farming for PV. (Caveat, most farmers lease the land to solar developers, they don't pay for the PV themselves). Hard to grow crops under a PV panel so any grazing is of low stock density, which is an uneconomic method if farming. As much as I like the idea of making it compulsory for new builds to have PV, many buildings will not be suitable (wrong angles and shading). There is the grid reinforcement costs to upgrade a lot of old buildings, which may also suffer the same problems as above. There is plenty to suitable land for farming, PV, Wind farms, housing and industry in the UK, just as there is plenty of land for golf courses and motor racing circuits, small air parks, military based and bus depots. We just need to allow people to develop sites and get grid connections in faster and cheaper (so don't force it to planning appeals all the time). How about open public voting, so we know who is for or against. If against the power companies can reduce your fuse size, say down to 30A, then 20A if you still vote against a development. It does seem odd that you can vote against a national infrastructure project which affects other people and not have any personally responsibility for the outcome. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Posted July 14 Share Posted July 14 4 minutes ago, SteamyTea said: Hard to grow crops under a PV panel so any grazing is of low stock density, which is an uneconomic method if farming. Not sure about the economics in the UK, but it happens elsewhere - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agrivoltaics France has recently published updated legislation on the topic - https://apasec.net/articles/18/04/2024/Agrivoltaisme-le-decret-est-enfin-publie-au-Journal-officiel-91204/ (summary in French). The key rules, to be reviewed after a year, are it must be possible to return the land to its previous state, no more than 40% of the land surface can be covered by panels, and the land must loose no more than 10% of it's production capacity each year (compared to a suitable reference plot). 35 minutes ago, SteamyTea said: As much as I like the idea of making it compulsory for new builds to have PV, many buildings will not be suitable (wrong angles and shading). France has made progress on that too. The 2019 ELAN law now (in 2024) requires all new or re-roofed commercial buildings >500m², to have at least 30% of the roof (50% from 2027) covered with solar PV, or a green roof, or something else of similar environmental value. It will be extended to cover most non-domestic buildings from 2028. There are exemptions where it's not technically / financially realistic to do so. Similar rules apply to new and existing car parks >500m², whether covered or open air, which must have at least 50% PV coverage. Existing car parks must be retrofitted by either 2026 or 2028 depending on size. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeSharp01 Posted July 14 Share Posted July 14 Car parks a great idea just add a structure over it and cover with PV it need not be fully waterproof although gutters might be nice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteamyTea Posted July 14 Share Posted July 14 22 minutes ago, Mike said: no more than 40% of the land surface can be covered by panels That is quite an interesting idea as you cannot really cover 100% of the land. As you tilt the modules more to the vertical, you need a larger space between them to reduce shading issues. https://pvrowspacingcalculator.com/ If local councils fitted PV over carparks, they could offer free parking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Posted July 14 Share Posted July 14 3 hours ago, SteamyTea said: If local councils fitted PV over carparks, they could offer free parking. Or maybe free recharging... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Posted July 14 Share Posted July 14 4 hours ago, MikeSharp01 said: Car parks a great idea just add a structure over it and cover with PV it need not be fully waterproof although gutters might be nice. Some examples: https://www.batimentphotovoltaique.fr/details-ombriere+solaire+de+parking+a+toulouse+marseille+bordeaux-114.html https://www.francebleu.fr/infos/climat-environnement/un-parking-ecolo-l-aeroport-de-montpellier-1447431640 https://actu.fr/pays-de-la-loire/saint-aignan-grandlieu_44150/pres-laeroport-nantes-citoyens-investissent-dans-photovoltaique_24928418.html The last one is particularly interesting as it's partly crowd funded. Projects that meet the required standards (suitable scope, transparent investment information, positive environmental impact, etc.) can obtain official recognition, via a number of approved crowd-funding platforms, under the national 'crowd funding for green growth' scheme. In this case anyone in the département (county), or the neighbouring ones, could buy a stake for €100 and earn a 5% annual return - https://fr.enerfip.eu/placer-son-argent/investissement-solaire/centrale-au-sol-de-saint-aignan/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeSharp01 Posted July 15 Share Posted July 15 7 hours ago, Mike said: Some examples: Very interesting - this is exactly how it should be loads of capacity in a wasted space zone above the cars and shading for cars in the summer so saving on Air Con when they move. Looks like we are doing it here somewhat as well. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-65626371 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saveasteading Posted July 15 Share Posted July 15 Aberdeen council are building a hydrogen plant that will fuel 7 buses. Sounds sensible enough. I suspect this is to show the public not to worry, and it will expand to a huge business. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onoff Posted July 15 Share Posted July 15 15 hours ago, SteamyTea said: If local councils fitted PV over carparks, they could offer free parking. A bit like the Dartford crossing model? Keep the parking charges in place for a number of years to offset the PV outlay then make parking free? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeSharp01 Posted July 15 Share Posted July 15 4 hours ago, Onoff said: A bit like the Dartford crossing model? Keep the parking charges in place for a number of years to offset the PV outlay then make parking free? That didn't go well did it, I dimly recall paying to visit Essex and return last week! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteamyTea Posted July 15 Share Posted July 15 36 minutes ago, MikeSharp01 said: dimly recall paying to visit Essex and return last week! You think that is bad, I had to pay to get away from @Onoff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeSharp01 Posted July 15 Share Posted July 15 1 hour ago, SteamyTea said: You think that is bad, I had to pay to get away from @Onoff Yes, totally get that, however those of us made of stronger stuff than clotted cream have mastered the art, with the help of small team of counsellors, of living close by him. Of course we take great care not to poke the dragon for fear of fire and brimstone being cast upon us. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteamyTea Posted July 15 Share Posted July 15 1 minute ago, MikeSharp01 said: stronger stuff than clotted cream Turns into Cathedral if left long enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onoff Posted July 15 Share Posted July 15 24 minutes ago, SteamyTea said: Turns into Cathedral if left long enough. Fromunder actually. Would you like me to reimburse you the toll fee? Even @MikeSharp01 moved to get away... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteamyTea Posted July 15 Share Posted July 15 4 minutes ago, Onoff said: Would you like me to reimburse you the toll fee? No way, you will forever been in my debt now. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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