2.500 Acre Solar Farm.

[twice round the block]

Labour have just given the go ahead for a 2.500 acre solar farm in East Anglia.

 

So they've just take away prime food production land for solar production.

 

In the 1980's we we're 81% food self sufficient. This has declined year on year and now stands at 64%.

 

So why are we destroying good agricultural land for another  vanity project.

HS2 has already taken out thousands of acres of land out of production.

 

Any one have any information on the nutritional value and a recipe for a solar panel.?

 

Someone will start bleating on about factory farming. 

Is there another option for feeding a growing population.?

[ProDave]

Here is a thought.  Can't a solar farm share the same land as a wind farm?  Mostly built in hills so not productive farmland.  Yes some panels would get some shading from the towers but it would seem to be a good dual use of land and infrastructure.

[joe90]

  On 14/07/2024 at 09:20, twice round the block said:

So they've just take away prime food production land for solar production

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Is it prime agricultural land? When planning went in for a solar farm near my build it had to be on non prime land.

  On 14/07/2024 at 09:20, twice round the block said:

another  vanity project.

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Is it vanity ? If we want to pollute less solar is one of the options, also price wise is the gain financially better than producing food when we can buy it from elsewhere?

[Nick Thomas]

  On 14/07/2024 at 09:27, ProDave said:

Here is a thought.  Can't a solar farm share the same land as a wind farm?  Mostly built in hills so not productive farmland.  Yes some panels would get some shading from the towers but it would seem to be a good dual use of land and infrastructure.

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These do exist: https://www.ecotricity.co.uk/our-news/2022/our-two-new-hybrid-parks-have-launched-today

 

Food self-sufficiency is a bit of a red herring here; national strategy is focused on security of supply, and isn't particularly bothered about small-scale land swaps in and out of agriculture. The UK has 17 million hectares of agricultural land; taking 1K hectares away reduces food production capacity by 0.006%. Or to put it another way, we could do 200 of these before the impact was worth walking about.

 

 

[Triassic]

Simply make the legs of the solar support structure taller and graze livestock below.

 

Even more controversial, make it a planning requirement to install solar on all new building.

 

Maybe even improve the build quality of homes, so we use less energy!!!!

[DamonHD]

Proposed the last two for our local plan...

[Nick Thomas]

Oh nice, it's battery storage as well as PV. https://sunnica.co.uk/ . So already a kind of hybrid site.

 

Another way to model this would be that we're swapping 0.006% (ish) of our agricultural land to increase our generation capacity by 0.06% (ish).

[LSB]

the site near us, built about 8 yrs ago only got planning by agreeing to graze their sheep in the same field.

I walk past there at least once per week with the dog, never been a sheep near the place, only agreed to get planning.

But, the alternative was wind and the solar is so much quieter 🙂

Of course it's impossible for me to tell if it's even running as it's silent, just lots of cameras.

 

[JohnMo]

  On 14/07/2024 at 09:20, twice round the block said:

Labour have just given the go ahead for a 2.500 acre solar farm in East Anglia.

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Good, we need more. Better than a field or ten or smelly pigs like we have near us.

 

Best producing sites normally have sheep or cows to keep grass and weeds at bay.

 

Vertical panels and crops go well together also so are ideally for food production 

 

Not all land east Anglia is prime farming land.

[Temp]

East Anglia has numerous disused airfield that would be a better choice.

[SteamyTea]

I think class A farmland gives a better cash return than a solar farm, so only an idiot would swap farming for PV.

(Caveat, most farmers lease the land to solar developers, they don't pay for the PV themselves).

 

Hard to grow crops under a PV panel  so any grazing is of low stock density, which is an uneconomic method if farming.

 

As much as I like the idea of making it compulsory for new builds to have PV, many buildings will not be suitable (wrong angles and shading).

 

There is the grid reinforcement costs to upgrade a lot of old buildings, which may also suffer the same problems as above.

 

There is plenty to suitable land for farming, PV, Wind farms, housing and industry in the UK, just as there is plenty of land for golf courses and motor racing circuits, small air parks, military based and bus depots.

We just need to allow people to develop sites and get grid connections in faster and cheaper (so don't force it to planning appeals all the time).

 

How about open public voting, so we know who is for or against. If against the power companies can reduce your fuse size, say down to 30A, then 20A if you still vote against a development.

It does seem odd that you can vote against a national infrastructure project which affects other people and not have any personally responsibility for the outcome.

 

[Mike]

  On 14/07/2024 at 16:09, SteamyTea said:

Hard to grow crops under a PV panel  so any grazing is of low stock density, which is an uneconomic method if farming.

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Not sure about the economics in the UK, but it happens elsewhere - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agrivoltaics

 

France has recently published updated legislation on the topic - https://apasec.net/articles/18/04/2024/Agrivoltaisme-le-decret-est-enfin-publie-au-Journal-officiel-91204/ (summary in French).

The key rules, to be reviewed after a year, are it must be possible to return the land to its previous state, no more than 40% of the land surface can be covered by panels, and the land must loose no more than 10% of it's production capacity each year (compared to a suitable reference plot).

 

  On 14/07/2024 at 16:09, SteamyTea said:

As much as I like the idea of making it compulsory for new builds to have PV, many buildings will not be suitable (wrong angles and shading).

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France has made progress on that too. The 2019 ELAN law now (in 2024) requires all new or re-roofed commercial buildings >500m², to have at least 30% of the roof (50% from 2027) covered with solar PV, or a green roof, or something else of similar environmental value. It will be extended to cover most non-domestic buildings from 2028. There are exemptions where it's not technically / financially realistic to do so.

 

Similar rules apply to new and existing car parks >500m², whether covered or open air, which must have at least 50% PV coverage. Existing car parks must be retrofitted by either 2026 or 2028 depending on size.

 

[MikeSharp01]

Car parks a great idea just add a structure over it and cover with PV it need not be fully waterproof although gutters might be nice.

[SteamyTea]

  On 14/07/2024 at 17:17, Mike said:

no more than 40% of the land surface can be covered by panels

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That is quite an interesting idea as you cannot really cover 100% of the land.

As you tilt the modules more to the vertical, you need a larger space between them to reduce shading issues.

https://pvrowspacingcalculator.com/

 

If local councils fitted PV over carparks, they could offer free parking.

[Mike]

  On 14/07/2024 at 17:46, SteamyTea said:

If local councils fitted PV over carparks, they could offer free parking.

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Or maybe free recharging...

[Mike]

  On 14/07/2024 at 17:28, MikeSharp01 said:

Car parks a great idea just add a structure over it and cover with PV it need not be fully waterproof although gutters might be nice.

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Some examples:

https://www.batimentphotovoltaique.fr/details-ombriere+solaire+de+parking+a+toulouse+marseille+bordeaux-114.html

https://www.francebleu.fr/infos/climat-environnement/un-parking-ecolo-l-aeroport-de-montpellier-1447431640

https://actu.fr/pays-de-la-loire/saint-aignan-grandlieu_44150/pres-laeroport-nantes-citoyens-investissent-dans-photovoltaique_24928418.html

 

The last one is particularly interesting as it's partly crowd funded. Projects that meet the required standards (suitable scope, transparent investment information, positive environmental impact, etc.) can obtain official recognition, via a number of approved crowd-funding platforms, under the national 'crowd funding for green growth' scheme. In this case anyone in the département (county), or the neighbouring ones, could buy a stake for €100 and earn a 5% annual return - https://fr.enerfip.eu/placer-son-argent/investissement-solaire/centrale-au-sol-de-saint-aignan/

 

[MikeSharp01]

  On 14/07/2024 at 22:38, Mike said:

Some examples:

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Very interesting - this is exactly how it should be loads of capacity in a wasted space zone above the cars and shading for cars in the summer so saving on Air Con when they move.  Looks like we are doing it here somewhat as well. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-65626371

 

[saveasteading]

Aberdeen council are building a hydrogen plant that will fuel 7 buses. Sounds sensible enough.

I suspect this is to show the public not to worry, and  it will expand to a huge business.

[Onoff]

  On 14/07/2024 at 17:46, SteamyTea said:

If local councils fitted PV over carparks, they could offer free parking.

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A bit like the Dartford crossing model? Keep the parking charges in place for a number of years to offset the PV outlay then make parking free?

 

 

[MikeSharp01]

  On 15/07/2024 at 09:24, Onoff said:

 

A bit like the Dartford crossing model? Keep the parking charges in place for a number of years to offset the PV outlay then make parking free?

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That didn't  go well did it, I dimly recall paying to visit Essex and return last week!

[SteamyTea]

  On 15/07/2024 at 14:00, MikeSharp01 said:

 dimly recall paying to visit Essex and return last week!

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You think that is bad, I had to pay to get away from @Onoff

[MikeSharp01]

  On 15/07/2024 at 14:37, SteamyTea said:

You think that is bad, I had to pay to get away from @Onoff

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Yes,  totally get that, however those of us made of stronger stuff than clotted cream have mastered the art, with the help of small team of counsellors, of living close by him. Of course we take great care not to poke the dragon for fear of fire and brimstone being cast upon us.

[SteamyTea]

  On 15/07/2024 at 16:14, MikeSharp01 said:

stronger stuff than clotted cream

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Turns into Cathedral if left long enough.

[Onoff]

  On 15/07/2024 at 16:20, SteamyTea said:

Turns into Cathedral if left long enough.

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Fromunder actually. 

 

Would you like me to reimburse you the toll fee?

 

Even @MikeSharp01 moved to get away...

[SteamyTea]

  On 15/07/2024 at 16:47, Onoff said:

Would you like me to reimburse you the toll fee?

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No way, you will forever been in my debt now.