Uphill poo?

[LnP]

16 hours ago, ProDave said:

 

Whatever you choose I would regard this shed loo as being for No 1's only.  Take a walk to the house if you need a No 2.  Trust me you don't want to be fishing a failed pump out of a raw sewage pumping station that has been used for "all functions"

 

I routed rainwater into the pumping station to help to keep it flushed out of the nasty stuff!

[G and J]

Ok, so if I adhere to the no poo rule then all I need is a bush. In fact, that was the on-site welfare arrangements we had when we built the first time.  It was a different world back then. 
 

We've got bushes so that option is free.  
 

Option 2, a macerator looking at circa £500 inc piping but opinions vary about feasibility. 
 

Option 3, a chamber and pump, circa £1,200, appears feasible but some think it’s overkill.  
 

Option 4, compost toilet - don’t know how much as I can’t contemplate it. Rather use a Thetford potty like in our campervan and I’d rather go without than have that.  
 

Unless there’s no other options I can focus my research on options 2 and 3. 

[Jilly]

At its most basic, a compost loo is a bucket and a lid. You can go upmarket and get a urine diverter and do a mini garden soak away if you like. A bale of straw works too.
Managed properly they don’t smell and I would rather have one than a  stinky blue cabin any day. I set one up on site and nearly everyone was happy with it, bar the electrician, who had a tantrum and nearly went home 😂

[Pocster]

Hello hello !

[saveasteading]

4 hours ago, Russell griffiths said:

will 100% not work in your situation 

distance is to far, pump not powerful enough

So one of us is wrong. Tables show that 50m is no problem for a £300 unit. 

Speak to the manufacturers...they might just know.

@Russell griffithswould be worried about a blockage. My ducting insurance with a pressure pipe all the way in it makes theoretical problems sortable.

 

Big commercial pumps have a big tank in case of  power cut,  and a spare pump in case one fails.

your plan b is to go round the back and plan c is to go into the house.

[Russell griffiths]

2 hours ago, saveasteading said:

So one of us is wrong. Tables show that 50m is no problem for a £300 unit. 

Speak to the manufacturers...they might just know.

@Russell griffithswould be worried about a blockage. My ducting insurance with a pressure pipe all the way in it makes theoretical problems sortable.

 

Big commercial pumps have a big tank in case of  power cut,  and a spare pump in case one fails.

your plan b is to go round the back and plan c is to go into the house.

Go and talk to a plumber 

ask him if he would fit one. 
guarantee if you fit it he will say don’t call him when it fails. 
 

lots of things work, but is it right, is it a robust solution 

or just a rough way of doing something 

not for me I’m afraid, 50m of poo filled pipe is not something i would want to mess with. 
and I’ve spent many hours in poo filled trenches. 
 

I will leave it for you. 

[saveasteading]

11 minutes ago, Russell griffiths said:

50m of poo filled pipe is not something i would want to mess with. 

But it will be  a tiny dia pressure pipe full of macerated stuff. Might it settle and congeal? I don't know but I haven't heard of problems.

As I said though, I'd put it in a  4" pipe so it can all be pulled out just in case. That's if I did it, and I might not. I might instead build a mini reed bed or dry compost. Or go indoors. Or use a  a bottle.....cost zero.

It is all so much more fun when it is someone else's decision.

[joe90]

I put a full loo in my garage/workshop on my build  because the pipework was going past it anyway, if it were not I might not have (as downstairs cloakroom in the house was just inside the front door with tiled floor)

[G and J]

A proper loo, which will very, very rarely be used for anything other than a pee, would be a useful thing to have in the cave, saves me dropping sawdust if I’m making stuff or sweat if I’m rowing in the house as we don’t have room for a downstairs loo right by the back door.  So it’s worth it to me to construct a water level to give me some accurate levels before I finalise my plans.  

Thank you for the inputs though folks, much appreciated.  

[Dave Jones]

dont bodge it with macerators. pumped chamber is way to go.

[Pocster]

20 hours ago, Russell griffiths said:

and I’ve spent many hours in poo filled trenches. 

Homo erotica will not be tolerated on this forum !

[G and J]

2 hours ago, Dave Jones said:

dont bodge it with macerators. pumped chamber is way to go.

I understand and appreciate your ‘do it right’ sentiment, but I’ve a nagging feeling that following that mindset might land me in ‘merde’.   I’ll explain.

 

Potty in man cave sits on floor whose level is just above the invert level of the sewer manhole at the front of our site.  If I dig a hole and put a pump in it, somewhere between the two, wherever I dig it in case of inevitable malfunction gravity ensures said hole receives all the nasty stuff that’s in the system.  Nasty.  Even if it’s only fermented pee.  In this case gravity is not my friend.
 

Imagine I lay a continuous length of black, 32mm pipe, from the potty, thence down into my duct, then more or less horizontal till it reaches my house, at which point it rises enough to finish its journey to the sewer manhole with a 1% fall.  One great big extended u bend.  Then imagine the macerator fails.  Unless an emergency has recently happened the pipe will be full of only (admittedly stinky) liquid.  I disconnect the macerator (if it can’t be fixed with a nose peg and rubber gloves) and the pipe just sits there, gravity in this case being my friend.  Maybe I can even attach a garden hose to flush it, there’s a thought.  Worst case new macerator, but I note some have five year warranties so that should cost me too often.   
 

Unless, of course, I’ve missed something essential. Yet again.

[Russell griffiths]

You need a TOPO survey with all your heights marked, otherwise it’s all just a rough guess. 
 

whats to stop you building up the far end of the garden. 

[G and J]

20 minutes ago, Russell griffiths said:

You need a TOPO survey with all your heights marked, otherwise it’s all just a rough guess. 
 

whats to stop you building up the far end of the garden. 

I’ve ordered some clear tubing and I’m going to make a water level to cheque my laser based conclusions.  The Hide (I wanted to call it the pig pen but apparently that would have given the impression we were going to keep livestock) and it’s attendant height was included in our planning app, now granted, and even if I did and I had the fall I needed it would mean an aerial sewer which would be a talking point (might get us on grand designs, you never know).

 

I know a water level is a bit Blue Peter but it will do the job well within the accuracy I need.

[Alan Ambrose]

Just jack up the throne until everything runs downhill?

[saveasteading]

1 hour ago, G and J said:

a water level is a bit Blue Peter

Nothing wrong with that. Also works round corners. Doesn't go out of adjustment....ever.

One improvement would be to use Irn Bru for easier reading.

I have used one in a basement underneath a factory, where nothing else would have worked.

I bought a hitech equivalent that uses pressure differences,  so it works up- hill/ stairs. 

[G and J]

31 minutes ago, Alan Ambrose said:

Just jack up the throne until everything runs downhill?

Is adding a rooftop al fresco welfare unit permitted development?

[G and J]

5 minutes ago, saveasteading said:

Nothing wrong with that. Also works round corners. Doesn't go out of adjustment....ever.

One improvement would be to use Irn Bru for easier reading.

I have used one in a basement underneath a factory, where nothing else would have worked.

I bought a hitech equivalent that uses pressure differences,  so it works up- hill/ stairs. 

I’m more of a mind to trust it’s readings than anything clever with batteries.  But as it doesn’t use an app it has earned me some very funny looks in the past.

[Dave Jones]

On 28/05/2024 at 15:25, G and J said:

I understand and appreciate your ‘do it right’ sentiment, but I’ve a nagging feeling that following that mindset might land me in ‘merde’.   I’ll explain.

 

Potty in man cave sits on floor whose level is just above the invert level of the sewer manhole at the front of our site.  If I dig a hole and put a pump in it, somewhere between the two, wherever I dig it in case of inevitable malfunction gravity ensures said hole receives all the nasty stuff that’s in the system.  Nasty.  Even if it’s only fermented pee.  In this case gravity is not my friend.
 

Imagine I lay a continuous length of black, 32mm pipe, from the potty, thence down into my duct, then more or less horizontal till it reaches my house, at which point it rises enough to finish its journey to the sewer manhole with a 1% fall.  One great big extended u bend.  Then imagine the macerator fails.  Unless an emergency has recently happened the pipe will be full of only (admittedly stinky) liquid.  I disconnect the macerator (if it can’t be fixed with a nose peg and rubber gloves) and the pipe just sits there, gravity in this case being my friend.  Maybe I can even attach a garden hose to flush it, there’s a thought.  Worst case new macerator, but I note some have five year warranties so that should cost me too often.   
 

Unless, of course, I’ve missed something essential. Yet again.

point is you don’t need fall with a pumped chamber , they have a head rating. Also they come with a non return valve.

 

 

 

[G and J]

So, I’ve done my measuring with my water level.

 

Oh dear.  Ground level around my man cave if 550mm below invert level of sewer access manhole at the front of my site.  Sigh.  I will never truly trust a laser level again.

 

I think that means a rethink …

[Mr Punter]

It will be no issue with a packaged pump station.

[G and J]

I did like the macerator plan when I thought the macerator would sit just above the main sewer manhole invert level.  That way if I disconnect the macerator there would be no backflow, and I could even flush the small bore waste pipe with a hose connection.  I know macerators can handle constant back pressure but everything goes wrong eventually and it’s not a good prospect if a load of filthy water escapes when dismantling.  
 

I appreciate that a pump station is a proper job but I think the notion of dealing with a failed pump in a manhole full of filthy water really doesn’t appeal either.  
 

I think it’s either put my potty on a 500mm pedestal or give up on having a potty.  

[saveasteading]

1 hour ago, G and J said:

the notion of dealing with a failed pump in a manhole full of filthy water really doesn’t appeal

Something is wrong if it does.

Pumps don't often fail. Yours would be operating for what? 5 minutes a day?

To do maintenance you hire another pump, or a tanker service, pump it out and sort it.

 

1 hour ago, G and J said:

give up on having a potty.

A very cheap and easy solution. I vote for that.

[G and J]

21 minutes ago, saveasteading said:

A very cheap and easy solution. I vote for that.

Me too by the looks of things.  

[TerryE]

I was thinking of doing an "Uphill Poo" topic when I saw this one. 

 

By way of background we have a cottage on a Greek Island where we live in spring and autumn, about 4 months of the year.  There isn't any centralised sewage here so every house in the old village has its own cesspit or "votra"; ours (like most) is a ~1m wide covered "stone well (in shape at least)" dug into the path immediately outside the cottage. This works well because the village is on a hill about 300m above  sea level and about 2 km from the sea.  There are so many fissures in the rock plug that the village is built on that liquids rapidly drain away, and the poo (no paper allowed) is a valuable resource to the local flora and fauna, and so is quickly carried off or absorbed, so absolutely no smells at all and AFAIK it has never been emptied in the 50-100 years that it has been there.  The grapevine covering our top terrace thrives on it.  There are maybe 1,000 dwellings on the island, most of which use a similar approach though the large and newer ones have proper septic tanks.

 

The Local Authority has just secured EU funding to replace this distributed solution which works well by a central problem one.   Step one is to put in a sewage system designed by politicians not engineers and to fund local LA workmen.  They've trenched the main road between the old village and the port to add a 160mm main sewer with access manholes next to every house and junction.  The main problem with this is that the pipe is buried about 0.6m below the road surface, and the road is not downhill only as there are often 30m dips over a few hundred metre sections, so the fall gradient varies between about 12° and -5°.  Poocrete plugs and popping manholes will abound.

 

So @G and J it could be worse, you could live on Alonnisos! 🤣