Michael Gove to ease housebuilding targets for councils in England

[Alan Ambrose]

Jeez...

 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/dec/13/michael-gove-to-ease-housebuilding-targets-for-councils-in-england

 

 

[JohnMo]

Sooner they are out of power the better - or at least I hope so.

[nod]

2 hours ago, JohnMo said:

Sooner they are out of power the better - or at least I hope so.

Be careful what you wish for 

A useless shower Granted 

The alternative will be great for anyone living on Benefits or wanting to come here and live for free 

The rest of us will have to fund there handouts 

[nod]

3 hours ago, Alan Ambrose said:

Jeez...

 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/dec/13/michael-gove-to-ease-housebuilding-targets-for-councils-in-england

 

 

If they are out at the next election 

Building lots of Counsul houses will be a Labour priority 

[Roger440]

9 minutes ago, nod said:

If they are out at the next election 

Building lots of Counsul houses will be a Labour priority 

 

But who will build them? As always, where will the people come from?

[nod]

8 minutes ago, Roger440 said:

 

But who will build them? As always, where will the people come from?

Good question 

Bringing in people from Eastern Europe isn’t the answer 

Getting an apprentice is far more difficult than it was 20 years ago 

kids arnt outdoory nowadays 

When I’ve advertised for an apprentice 

Nine out of ten have usally wasted two year at college Performing arts Sport science 

Our friends son has been with us for six month’s training as a tiler 

But has landed a place on a two year funded corse Computer game design 

Miles better than a building site in winter His mum is livid 

[MikeSharp01]

1 hour ago, nod said:

Miles better than a building site in winter His mum is livid 

Does his mum need some tiling done or does she think tiling is a more reliable career than games design?

[Ferdinand]

5 hours ago, JohnMo said:

Sooner they are out of power the better - or at least I hope so.

 

+1

 

I'll give them some credit for significantly boosting house building 2010 -> 2020 by various means.

 

But now he Hail Mary butt-saving passes all seem to involve burning down everything, including such achievements as they have made.

 

I think they know they are down the plughole, and it is about saving what is left of the South Eastern Tory heartland.

[nod]

8 hours ago, MikeSharp01 said:

Does his mum need some tiling done or does she think tiling is a more reliable career than games design?

She’s in despair 

[dpmiller]

2 hours ago, nod said:

She’s in despair 

why?

 

[SteamyTea]

13 hours ago, Roger440 said:

But who will build them? As always, where will the people come from?

We build cars, and in October we built 91k of them.  Very few of those people will have relevant qualifications in automotive engineering.

What will change is the building methods, they are changing already.

Out with the brickies, roofers and plasterers, plumbers and electricians, carpenters will be supervisors in the factories.

The skills will be in groundworks i.e. digging holes (are there proper higher level qualifications in hole digging) and pouring concrete (probably semi automated).

The skills, that will require some sort of technicians certificate will be on the logistics side and connecting to the services.

Real Engineers i.e. the Structural, Material, Mechanical, Electrical, Logistics Thermal Engineers will be via design consultants, not employed on site as such.

The really hard part will be on the legal and finance side.

 

Buildings can be quite different but they share a lot of common components, a lot of it depends on the size of those components.  Make things bigger, but still physically manageable between the factory and on site is the key.

Building with brick, block and tiles, 8 by 4 sheets and over long timber that has to be trimmed on site is, when you think about it, bonkers.  Nothing else with the exception of some furniture, clothing and food is made the same way.

 

So I suspect there is not really a skill shortage, and once we get rid of the old building methods, not even a labour shortage.

Maybe what needs to be created is a general Health and Safety course at GCSE level than can then have a secondary module that can industry specific, and make it compulsory at school, along with English and Mathematics.  They are really all that is needed to get a job these days.

Looking back at my academic qualifications and career, I should have just studied English, Mathematics and Physics (did them at 'O' Level and 'A' Level).  With those 3 I could probably have stopped formal learning and become an autodidactic learner.

Edited December 14, 2023 by SteamyTea

[Roger440]

30 minutes ago, SteamyTea said:

We build cars, and in October we built 91k of them.  Very few of those people will have relevant qualifications in automotive engineering.

What will change is the building methods, they are changing already.

Out with the brickies, roofers and plasterers, plumbers and electricians, carpenters will be supervisors in the factories.

The skills will be in groundworks i.e. digging holes (are there proper higher level qualifications in hole digging) and pouring concrete (probably semi automated).

The skills, that will require some sort of technicians certificate will be on the logistics side and connecting to the services.

Real Engineers i.e. the Structural, Material, Mechanical, Electrical, Logistics Thermal Engineers will be via design consultants, not employed on site as such.

The really hard part will be on the legal and finance side.

 

Buildings can be quite different but they share a lot of common components, a lot of it depends on the size of those components.  Make things bigger, but still physically manageable between the factory and on site is the key.

Building with brick, block and tiles, 8 by 4 sheets and over long timber that has to be trimmed on site is, when you think about it, bonkers.  Nothing else with the exception of some furniture, clothing and food is made the same way.

 

So I suspect there is not really a skill shortage, and once we get rid of the old building methods, not even a labour shortage.

Maybe what needs to be created is a general Health and Safety course at GCSE level than can then have a secondary module that can industry specific, and make it compulsory at school, along with English and Mathematics.  They are really all that is needed to get a job these days.

Looking back at my academic qualifications and career, I should have just studied English, Mathematics and Physics (did them at 'O' Level and 'A' Level).  With those 3 I could probably have stopped formal learning and become an autodidactic learner.

Id agree, the way we build houses seems bonkers. And stuck in the stone ages.

 

Whilst i know it happens to a limited degree, the solution to me seems to be build in a factory. But for some reason, this seems to be more expensive. Which doent compute in my mind.

 

But the pace of change is glacial in the building industry. Im not sure what will change that.

 

If i was 20 years younger and had the captial, its something id consider doing as a business. I think the bit thats missing, is any such system needs to churn out traditional looking buildings. All the ones ive seen look "different" in some way. Which surely must be to their detriment from a sales perspective.

 

 

[SteamyTea]

4 minutes ago, Roger440 said:

I think the bit thats missing, is any such system needs to churn out traditional looking buildings. All the ones ive seen look "different" in some way. Which surely must be to their detriment from a sales perspective.

Look pretty normal to me.

 

https://www.framehomes.co.uk/case-study/5-traditional-family-homes-in-leedstown-cornwall/

[jayc89]

I have an acre paddock that is just outside the local plan (our overall plot straddles it, with the current house being just inside it). Eventually I had hoped to build on the paddock but it looks like the chances of doing so are getting slimmer. 

[Roger440]

19 minutes ago, SteamyTea said:

Look pretty normal to me.

 

https://www.framehomes.co.uk/case-study/5-traditional-family-homes-in-leedstown-cornwall/

 

Nice. Good to see someone doing it.

 

But 5 is not going to change much. The big boys are not using them. Until they do, at a mass markiet level, life continues as normal.

 

 

[SteamyTea]

3 minutes ago, Roger440 said:

But 5 is not going to change much. The big boys are not using them.

I think they have the capacity to make 50 houses a week at the Redruth site (been a decade since I went there).

Back in 2009 they were making 60,000 linear metres of panels, so that would do 1,250 8m by 6 m houses.

I think the big boys are using them.

They are just one of many factories that make houses.

But yes, it does need to be scaled up and then purchasers have to be convinced that houses do not have to be clad in stone, brick or render.

 

[nod]

2 hours ago, dpmiller said:

why?

 

She doesn’t want her son dosing around for two years with nothing at the end of it 

[Roger440]

6 hours ago, SteamyTea said:

I think they have the capacity to make 50 houses a week at the Redruth site (been a decade since I went there).

Back in 2009 they were making 60,000 linear metres of panels, so that would do 1,250 8m by 6 m houses.

I think the big boys are using them.

They are just one of many factories that make houses.

But yes, it does need to be scaled up and then purchasers have to be convinced that houses do not have to be clad in stone, brick or render.

 

 

Last point is subjective. And wont happen either. Thats exactly why so many of the wheezes dont get off the ground. And the purchasers are secondary, its the planners to get past first.

 

 

[SteamyTea]

1 hour ago, Roger440 said:

its the planners to get past first.

Getting 500 houses past planners is probably easier and cheaper than getting 1 past.

I did say

9 hours ago, SteamyTea said:

The really hard part will be on the legal and finance side.

but that is true for all development be it a medical device or an aeroplane.

[ToughButterCup]

Until there is Parity of Esteem among post 16 courses. @nod , @SteamyTea, @IanR (?) , @ProDave and @ToughButterCup will continue to blow our collective fuses

[nod]

7 hours ago, nod said:

She doesn’t want her son dosing around for two years with nothing at the end of it 

Who knows

In five years time he May roll up in a Ferrari 

Or more likely bump into him in McDonald’s flipping burgers 🍔