Kitchen Downlights Layout Help

[richo106]

Hi all

 

I am now first fixing my kitchen and trying to work out position/number of downlights needed in my kitchen/diner area

 

I have done a layout on the pc as currently on holiday, I have marked on the drawings my rough spacing (joist position depending)

 

The blue lines split up the room with the sofa and table being further to the left within the blue lines

 

I don't want to install too many but on the other hand want to be bright enough, all 3 zones will be switched separately and also a separate kitchen plinth lighting/wall lighting circuit

 

Any comments at all on the downlights would be appreciated

 

Many Thanks

 

 

[richo106]

Meant to add the green section is not worktop they are full height units

[JohnMo]

I would move away from using small spot lights and use much bigger brighter ones, and way fewer lights.

 

For example our kitchen diner area is like yours, an L shape (we don't have the sitting area you have), but we have 8 lights in total (instead of your 13), the lights are flush fit 150mm dia. The kitchen is very bright with the lights on.

[Mike]

While I do use downlighters, but am not keen on using them in rows for general illumination - though I know many do. Though for a regular grid of downlighters, I do commend your restraint on the quantity selected  which, subject to beam angle, could create some variation in light and shade. But it's not the way I'd do it.

 

Personally I'd first be thinking of choosing lighting to suit the particular uses of the space - so lighting above the dining table and the kitchen island, to the sides of the sofas for reading / watching TV, and additional task lighting over the kitchen worktops. That could be a mixture of pendants, floor / table lamps and spots, for example. Then I'd be looking at highlighting any particular architectural features (including plinth lighting), or where any paintings or other features may go. Finally I'd be considering whether or not there are any particular gaps that may need additional illumination. Ideally, have at least 3 different layers of illumination, with dimmers on at least the principle layer. Other factors to consider are beam angles, light temperature and the colour rending index of the bulbs.

[Buzz]

Oddly enough our Kitchen lounge dinner is almost identical in size to yours apart from ours is a perfect rectangle being 6.7m wide , after a lot of debate and advice we went with 8 spots in a c shape around the island 3 pendants over the island 1 large hanging light over the dining table a matching hanging light in the lounge and 2 5amp sockets in the lounge for floor lamps so they can be turned on and off via a light switch. 

They were only put in a couple of weeks ago and we were both nervous about how much light we would have thinking that there didn't look to be anywhere near enough but I can honestly say I can't imagine a scenario when we will need to have them all on at the same time unless we have a house full like at Christmas and birthdays etc.

[Kelvin]

I posted a similar question on here and got great feedback. Consequently I reduced the number of downlights but added some pendant lights. We now have three glass pendant lights over the island plus the ‘task’ downlights and a single glass pendant over the dining table. The pendants create ambience and the downlights are for tasks. The downlights are dimmable and each strip is a separate lighting circuit.  We added a recess in the back wall to create a feature wall that has a hidden LED strip. This allows us to create layers of lighting for different purposes. We’ve continued this approach throughout the rest of the house. 
 

Edited October 7, 2023 by Kelvin

[Thorfun]

9 hours ago, Mike said:

While I do use downlighters, but am not keen on using them in rows for general illumination - though I know many do. Though for a regular grid of downlighters, I do commend your restraint on the quantity selected  which, subject to beam angle, could create some variation in light and shade. But it's not the way I'd do it.

 

Personally I'd first be thinking of choosing lighting to suit the particular uses of the space - so lighting above the dining table and the kitchen island, to the sides of the sofas for reading / watching TV, and additional task lighting over the kitchen worktops. That could be a mixture of pendants, floor / table lamps and spots, for example. Then I'd be looking at highlighting any particular architectural features (including plinth lighting), or where any paintings or other features may go. Finally I'd be considering whether or not there are any particular gaps that may need additional illumination. Ideally, have at least 3 different layers of illumination, with dimmers on at least the principle layer. Other factors to consider are beam angles, light temperature and the colour rending index of the bulbs.

+1

[saveasteading]

On a small kitchen revamp I used tiltable downlighters. Just a few degrees allowed tweaking to improve distribution.

[Thorfun]

here's what we did after getting a design from a lighting designer.

 

 

we will have 3 pendants over the dining table and island, directional spots to light artwork/walls etc, led strips under wall units and the walkway around the island we decided to swap out spots for an plastered in LED strip channel. we think it looks amazing and have planned for it to be equidistant from the island so it 'should' frame the island. here's a photo, kitchen is being delivered next week so we'll see if our planning worked out.

 

so the only actual downlight spots we have will be the couple shown in the entrance to the kitchen/dining area. we really wanted to avoid that grid of spots look. you can be so much more creative and your layout for the room really lends itself to be so. using different lighting for each 'section' of the room will help the demarcation of each area and give different mood lighting for the activities that will be done in those areas.

 

we feel that the £1500 we paid the lighting designer to give us a concept design for our house was invaluable. but we'll only know for sure once the house is finished and we're living in it.

 

[Pocster]

Ahhh the joys of a suspended tile ceiling . I can chop and change lights and positions to suit ☺️

[Thorfun]

1 minute ago, Pocster said:

Ahhh the joys of a suspended tile ceiling . I can chop and change lights and positions to suit ☺️

perfect for that city office look

[Pocster]

1 minute ago, Thorfun said:

perfect for that city office look

I think you’ll be surprised how ok it looks . Problem in offices is the ceiling tiles are usually bust / discoloured etc . You wait , you see …..

[Temp]

Think about the beam angle. Narrow beam has less glare but more shadows an a "spotty" appearance. Wide beam angles give more even lighting with fewer shadows but more glare.  My preference is for wide beam angles but they are a bit harder to find. I also look for bulbs/fittings producing at least 400 Lumens. 600 Lumens can be too bright and need a dimmer.

[saveasteading]

41 minutes ago, Temp said:

wide beam angles but they are a bit harder to find. 

I once got some at tlc where there were additional lens options so I had some wide angles where needed.

[Temp]

7 minutes ago, saveasteading said:

I once got some at tlc where there were additional lens options so I had some wide angles where needed.

 

Last purchase was some Osram Parthom 120 degree GU10 bulbs but only because we have that style fitting. They are just under 8W and 650 Lumens which is too bright on max. Next time I'll go for bit lower power but they do dim pretty well with no flicker.

Edited October 7, 2023 by Temp

[Eric]

@Thorfun do you have a link for these recessed ones? All the plaster in ones that I have seen seem to sit proud & your ones look to be recessed perfectly.

Do you have any photos while fitting them also?

[Mike]

2 hours ago, Eric said:

All the plaster in ones that I have seen seem to sit proud & your ones look to be recessed perfectly.

Not sure what @Thorfun used, but I've recently bought (not yet fitted) a mix of Faro Hyde and Fresh frameless, under the impression that the latter wasn't orientable. Turns out they are too, it's just not mentioned on the spec sheet. Both can be set, pre-plastering, for a 1 to 20mm plaster depth (though with different adjustment mechanisms). There are some visual & build differences, including:

• Fresh is a bit larger with a 90mm cut-out, comes with a GU10 bulb connector, a twist-off bulb retaining ring, and a max rating of '8W LED' (though the web page, only, says max 50W)
• Hyde is smaller but with a larger 104mm cut-out, comes without a bulb connector, has a pull-off bulb retaining ring, and a max rating of '8W LED'

As they're going in distinct places I'll be keeping both, but otherwise I'd have standardised on the Fresh and sent back the Hyde. I'll be fitting them with Tridonic modules as suggested by @Carrerahill in this thread from a while back.

[Thorfun]

13 hours ago, Eric said:

@Thorfun do you have a link for these recessed ones? All the plaster in ones that I have seen seem to sit proud & your ones look to be recessed perfectly.

Do you have any photos while fitting them also?

we bought these https://www.ultraleds.co.uk/plaster-in-standard-recessed-plaster-in-led-aluminium-channel-3-metre-length.html but I see they have dramatically increased in price since I bought them! I paid £19.70+VAT for a 3m length.

 

here are a couple of photos after we fitted them. I cut out the channels in the plasterboard after they were put up and then fitted the profiles.

 

[Tetrarch]

6 hours ago, Thorfun said:

we bought these https://www.ultraleds.co.uk/plaster-in-standard-recessed-plaster-in-led-aluminium-channel-3-metre-length.html but I see they have dramatically increased in price since I bought them! I paid £19.70+VAT for a 3m length.

 

here are a couple of photos after we fitted them. I cut out the channels in the plasterboard after they were put up and then fitted the profiles.

 

 

These are looking fabulous. Do you have a picture with it lit?

 

Regards

 

Tet

[Thorfun]

35 minutes ago, Tetrarch said:

 

These are looking fabulous. Do you have a picture with it lit?

 

Regards

 

Tet

nope. not finished yet. maybe one day though

 

ask me again in about 6 months. 🤣

[richo106]

Thanks all for the comments so far, certainly gave us food for thought! we like the led strip idea but not sure it would fit as we are going quite traditional with our house/kitchen style

 

I have attached what the rough layout would be, the lightest blue is worktop and the darker blue full height units. Red is the dining table (not sure of shape or size etc yet) we are planning to have a L shape sofa in the TV area in green

 

In the kitchen side we are planning to have wall lights (sconces) and plinth lighting to create ambient lighting in the area

 

We are not toying with the idea of having a pandant (s) over the dining table area, we were originally put of this as not sure on what table we would be having, but I feel it would be a big open ceiling with no pendant breaking it up potentially. 

 

If people were to add spots to this plan where would they put, I am planning to wire this next week so nothing like leaving it last minute!

 

Thanks again for all the comments 

 

[OwenF]

On 08/10/2023 at 02:07, Mike said:

I'll be fitting them with Tridonic modules as suggested by @Carrerahill in this thread from a while back.

@Mike May I ask where you sourced the Tridonic led modules & drivers? I’ve been through the ‘configurator’ on their website but cannot find anyone stocking the full SLA DC range of modules..

[Mike]

2 minutes ago, OwenF said:

@Mike May I ask where you sourced the Tridonic led modules & drivers? I’ve been through the ‘configurator’ on their website but cannot find anyone stocking the full SLA DC range of modules..

Not sure if they do the full range, but I bought mine from Dimco - https://www.dimco.eu/

[Andehh]

Put lights where you need them, not everywhere. Illumination levels should vary based on what you're doing.

 

We did Leds over the counters (food prep) then hanging lights over the table and island (atmospheric).

 

Lounge/study is atmospheric, you don't need

operating theatre grade lighting.

 

Terrible pics as camera over compensates the lights, but shows you what we did. Downlights ABOVE the counters so your body isn't casting a shower on the food you are preparing.

 

Leds stepped out so not above the tall units, so the light is between you and the cupboard/fridge/oven.

 

Hanging lights over island which is our default light (atmospheric) . Table downlights for eating when you down need 500 lumens over your head.

 

This works very well. Leds everywhere just tells me your electrician decided the lighting arrangement, and priced per fitting.