Our new house design

[Glen]

Hi everyone I’ve been keeping a low profile over the last few months dealing with LA to get full planning agreed on our new build proposal. Finally after 10 months we’ve got the green light to proceed. 
we (me & the wife) are building using an insulated raft with ICF walls clad in natural stone with a slate roof & oak porch & embellishments. (Similar feel to the attached images). I was hoping to invite opinions & recommendations on interior design layout. The current plans show a vaulted ceiling to the rear over the family room, the light grey areas upstairs show where the ceiling height slopes from 2.8m to 1.5m where it meets the walls. We are sat on a 1/4 acre rectangular plot, the front elevation facing NE. Looking forward to any view points or critiques. Thanks 

[JohnMo]

Hi a few comments below

 

Some odd sized room and lots of wasted space.

 

Lounge looks very small, hall looks to have a similar area.

 

Dressing room is huge, and what's a powder room?

 

Your master ensuite looks tiny?

 

I think the door going into the bedroom needs a bit of a rethink, I would design the bedroom around a super king bed, there looks to a normal double used in the drawing.

 

Is the sink going to useable in the guest bathroom?

 

You seem to have several chimneys? If you are putting in fires these need to be room sealed. So plan where the air duct is going through the wall or floor. An ICF build will have a good airtightness. If not room sealed you will need to add wall vents in each room to comply with building regs. 

 

Are you having an MVHR system? If where is it going, same for hot water cylinder. How are you heating and where is the boiler or ASHP going?

[ProDave]

Hi and welcome to the forum.

 

That is obviously a house to suit your particular needs and certainly not optimised for best resale price should you ever do that.

 

Agreed master suite needs a re think, apart from anything else it is a tortuous trek from the bed to the loo in the middle of the night.

 

Double garage while it may fit 2 cars at a push, the door is not wide enough for 2 cars.

 

Store room would be better as the family bathroom leaving 2 larger bedrooms above the garage (one used as craft room) and it might as well go to the back wall.

[Conor]

Well done on getting planning in just 10 months!

 

Agree, with most of what John says. A fire, never mind two, has no place in a modern ICF home.

Kitchen appears to be open to the rest of the house. You'll need some way of closing this off to satisfy building regs. You'll need to pull the stairs back or move the wall with the lounge forward to accommodate this. 

Roof angle looks low - less than 30degrees? Can you lift the ridge height a bit? This will match the style of the build better and give you more room upstairs.

I'm guessing the design brief has lead the design to be centred around the occupancy of just two people? The room layout upstairs will put potential buyers off if you were ever to sell - and lack of a proper second and third bedrooms will affect valuations for mortgage purposes. 

Does the craft room and second bedroom have escape windows? If they are via skylights they need to be quite low. You've mentioned a celling height of 1.5m in the eaves, which is too high for escape windows.

Upstairs landing/hall is dark and pokey - doesn't look like any natural light, unless I'm missing a skylight?

That whole master suite needs a good rethink. You have the room for a generous ES. We have a 2.5x3m one with full walk in shower and double sink vanity. It's fantastic. Don't scrimp here as it's the bathroom you'll use the most.

The RHS end of the wardrobe room looks either to small to use as a space and too big for a wardrobe. I'd pull the wall forward and give the space to the store (poss laundry room.)

Where is your hot water cylinder going? If in the "boiler room" (who uses that term these days?) then it's as far away as possible from your main shower!

Consider washing machine/laundry upstairs and ditch the awkward GF utility. We have ours upstairs and it's waaaay handier.

Ground floor looks pretty good - I don't think the lounge is too small. 

Nice big larder - good call.

Are you set on a vaulted ceiling for the kitchen diner? Missing out on another bedroom upstairs.

is the garage part of the thermal envelope? Hard to tell from the drawing as all walls shown as the same. Regret I have is not including an integrated garage in our build.  FYI you'll have to have the FFL of the garage 150mm below the FFL of the house.

 

Heating/ ventilation strategy etc?

 

Edited September 27, 2023 by Conor

[ToughButterCup]

1 hour ago, Glen said:

...

I was hoping to invite opinions & recommendations on interior design layout.

...

 

Hello: congratulations on getting planning permission in 10 months. As you know the secret of how to do that - most of us waited double that time and more - , share it here please. What a beautiful house you have planned . I love the detailing in the gables - shakes perhaps? 

 

I've read the replies, and they mirror closely the feedback I had on my house (not on BH - but visitors)

• wasted space
• lack of bedroom size
• use room 'x' as room 'y' instead.

How and to what extent does the building as planned fulfill the brief you gave the designer? What did you ask for, and what do you think about what has been offered?

 

My opinion about your house is close to irrelevant. In ours,  we wanted light airy space, we wanted small bedrooms, we played with room layout for ages. And yet many who visit say (politely) pokey bedroom, could have had this here instead of that, why isn't this a bathroom instead of bedroom ..... 

 

Since you are some time off breaking ground, there's a golden opportunity to go and have a look at houses all over the place: airBnB, weekend holiday rentals, open days for self builders, passivhaus demonstration houses. See what you think, what you like, what you want to avoid.

Good luck,

Ian

 

[Glen]

Thank you so much for the feedback, this I exactly what I was hoping for. It makes you question every aspect of layout, some of which I already had my doubts, hence the post. 
our previous history, we designed & built a 3000 sq ft 5 bed dormer house for our family, submitting & gaining planning myself, local builder put up the bare shell, we did the rest. That was 17 years ago! Wow, how things have changed in the last few years. We bought this plot on an un adopted lane which had planning for a 8m high 4 bed house, much to the objection of the neighbours as it’s surrounded by dormer bungalows. The location & surrounding was perfect for us, so we resubmitted planning for what we actually wanted. Again we drew up the design & submitted it. We had a few minor tweaks from planning & it passed!

We have designed the house for our forever home for ourselves, although I thought that when we built the last one, so a valid point on possible resale to consider. Our current home has 2 log burners, which we use all the time, hence the current design, but I do have reservations about incorporating here, the thinking behind it was, if we have to have heat pumps, then we may need an inexpensive back up for boosting in winter! We have thought to move the laundry upstairs as that’s what we currently have & works very well, then move the downstairs wc to that space, creating a larger office/storage space. The lounge is 7m x4m with a 2.8m hallway! (The wife wants a large hall & wide entrance door/windows to allow as much permissible light in as possible. The garage I’m happy with as it’s housing 1 car plus a small work area & several motorbikes, it was easier to show the 2 cars on the plan for planning, as that alone was adequate for highway’s approval, leaving us to do what we want with the access driveway. 
the hot water tank was going in the boiler room (that’s what we have now) but definitely thinking of moving into the upstairs space (due to your feedback) the vaulted area we like, we want as much natural light as possible (without the cost & use of mechanical ventilation)

the master bedroom currently shows a king size bed, but I think the en-suite needs a rethink. In our current house the only thing I would change is the size of the dressing room as it’s too small, but we may have gone to large with this one. 
The stair landing definitely needs a flood of natural light, I’ll check that. 
Again thanks for the input, it’s much appreciated. 

[Conor]

Sounds like you've really thought about this and happy to take on suggestions. 

 

Re the burners. The house you are about to build will be far more airtight and insualted that the one you built 17 years ago. It's a different way of living and thinking about heating. You're talking anywhere upto £10k for those two burners. That's an expensive backup plan! At no point have we regretted not putting a burner in our icf  house. I can imagine how uncomfortably hot it would get!

 

We have three 3kW blow heaters as emergency backups if the ASHP goes down. And in reality, it would be 2-3days of no electric before we got in to difficulty. If you spec everything right, your build will only lose 1-2c every 24hrs in the depths of winter if your heating is off. 

[ProDave]

Wood burning stoves is a marmite topic on here.  There is nothing wrong with one in a well insulated modern house as long as you fit a room sealed one, that takes it's combustion air in via a duct direct from outside, rather than from the room.  Beware not all stoves with an air in vent take both primary and secondary air from outside.  Check carefully.

 

Our main reason for having one is a good supply of free firewood. If we did not live somewhere with plenty of free wood we might not bother if we had to buy all the fuel.

 

Appreciate you wanting a house specific to your needs, nothing wrong with that.  It might be worth planning a way to floor over the vaulted area should you want to make way for another bedroom, i.e. design the structure to allow that should you want to.

 

A hot water tank really needs to be as close to the kitchen and bathrooms as you can.  Probably a little airing cupboard incorporated in your en-suite complex could achieve that.

[SteamyTea]

I don't comment on people's house designs, but I guess, from the look of it, you don't want PV.

[JohnMo]

1 hour ago, Glen said:

without the cost & use of mechanical ventilation

I would check your building regs on the requirement for ventilation. Unless your ICF build is really badly done, your airtightness is very likely to be better than 3m3/m2 @ 50Pa. Certainly in Scotland that mandates balanced mechanical supply and extract (MVHR). The point to find out is now, then you can plan for it.

 

[Jilly]

Minor thing, but watch out when the ufh is laid, as I'm assuming you wouldn't want it in the larder?

 

A neighbour's builder made that mistake and he (neighbour) nearly had a nervous breakdown over it. 

[Gus Potter]

9 hours ago, Glen said:

Looking forward to any view points or critiques.

Helo Glen.

 

Well done you for getting to this stage.. as a past self builder it is a mile stone, technically and emotionally... bet you feel great!

 

I'll comment first with my SE / past Contractor's hat on. 

 

Ok with the raft concept.. it has many advantages. So let's go with that for now.

 

ICF is not suitable for what you propose in terms of cost and complexity in terms to reinforcement design and buildability  = big cost. You have big open spaces and building stabilty issues. While I could maybe design this structurally on paper in ICF the detailing and the construction method is going to be so complex that costs will escalate exponentially.. and then you need to find a builder that can actually execute a complex design like that.

 

To expand a bit you have some chimneys, exterior details.. to marry this with ICF is going to be very costly. To sum up if you came to me as a Client ICF would be the last thing on my mind. There are so many other better options worth having a look at.

 

In terms of Architectural design.

 

The example you posted is unbalance in that the garage dominates the main dwelling.. the massing and complexity of detailing is not pleasing... it looks like something from America.. we in the Uk have better taste.

 

Your floor plans. This is something quite different. To simplify you have the main enterance, then you have to walk by the cloaks and the office.. before you get to your first feature which is the stair. When you get home or have visitors then there is nothing there that excites.. more like a 1970 sports pavilion enterance.

 

I don't know what to say other than there is a huge amount of wasted space and the flow (how you move around the house) is bizzare. Why can't you access that boiler room from the ground floor.. I think you need to go back and reconfigure the ground floor and then the upper floor. Go back and look at other layouts.. have a major internal design review.. then rule out what you really don't like.. then you will know that what you have suits you. Looking at this I would say to you.. I think what you have is not good.. let's see if we can do better.

 

Has anyone sat you down and explained your design and how it works on the different levels?

 

if you can tell us more about that it would help to generate informative comments.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Glen]

Hi Gus thank you for your comments, it’s certainly food for thought. I think we will most certainly remove the log burners & chimneys, I didn’t realise the ICF was so efficient, losing only 1-2’c as Connor mentioned. The original reasoning was we already have the stoves & ample supply of fuel.

As for the internal layout, our current house has a much more impressive round entrance hall with an oak helical staircase,  large open kitchen with social area & separate dining room & separate lounge. This currently works very well for us, with large family gatherings quite often, but we we’re struggling to replicate this concept in a much smaller space & we didn’t want a narrow corridor leading to the rear living area, hence the wide hallway. 
The house will be positioned almost centrally on the plot with a large garden to the front & rear & approx 7m on the left side (westerly facing), the garage is 1.5m away from the boundary. We want to make the most out of the views with the room positioning & the allowed glazing to comply with building regs. 
Currently, taking on previous comments I think we will ditch the stoves & chimneys, move the cloak cupboards into the office area, move the utility & hot water tank upstairs & move the downstairs wc into the current utility area, upstairs we will increase the bathroom space & maybe redesign the rest. 
I’m so glad i posted & feel we are really gaining from the valuable feedback. 
ps. If I thought we could incorporate PV I would consider it, but the whole front elevation is south facing & we have little roof space available , I’m also not a great fan of their appearance in a prominent position. 

 

[JohnMo]

When we were planning our layout, we went to the beach, with tape measure and a stick. Marked in the sand, the real size of the building and doorways. Checked how things flowed, or didn't, made changes in the sand.  You can add things like dining table, bed, sofa etc.  Did this a few times, worked well for us.

 

Also for room sizes, use you current house, fiends houses and show houses, to compare your proposed room size, to see how it feels, big or poky, also take account of furniture you want move to the new house.

[ProDave]

1 hour ago, Glen said:

Hi Gus thank you for your comments, it’s certainly food for thought. I think we will most certainly remove the log burners & chimneys, I didn’t realise the ICF was so efficient, losing only 1-2’c as Connor mentioned. The original reasoning was we already have the stoves & ample supply of fuel.

ANY build method, done properly with attention to detail will give similar results.  We are timber frame and achieve those sort of results.

 

Heat loss calculations, and proven by actual experience, says our house will need a maximum of a little over 2kW heat input when it is -10 outside and +20 inside.

 

You should seriously be aiming for something similar.

 

We originally planned 2 stoves, but only fitted one as you will find out in a well insulated house, it is near impossible to keep one part of the house cooler than others so the one stove does a good job of heating the whole house.

 

In such a well insulated house, a stove needs to be somewhere it can circulate heat all around the house.  Your open plan area would be good for that.  But put one in the living room with the door shut and you will cook in no time.

 

I would not fit conventional chimney's.  A stove just needs a twin wall flue system up through the house and out through the roof.  Then you can choose withing reason where to put the stove later on.

[Sparrowhawk]

1 hour ago, JohnMo said:

When we were planning our layout, we went to the beach, with tape measure and a stick. Marked in the sand, the real size of the building and doorways. Checked how things flowed, or didn't, made changes in the sand.  You can add things like dining table, bed, sofa etc.  Did this a few times, worked well for us.

 

Also for room sizes, use you current house, fiends houses and show houses, to compare your proposed room size, to see how it feels, big or poky, also take account of furniture you want move to the new house.

Seconding this.

 

When thinking about remodelling we got big sheets of cardboard, put them up where the walls would be and painted them. We've kept one up to see how much of a pain the doorway position is. I envy people who can see 2D plans or 3D renders and visualise themselves in it. I need to inhabit the space.

[JohnMo]

52 minutes ago, ProDave said:

But put one in the living room with the door shut and you will cook in no time.

I would echo that, we have a stove in our lounge, it's a little over 6m X 6m, but with a cathedral ceiling 6m tall. First time we had our stove on, we filled as we were told by the installer, spent the next 4 hours trying to dump the heat, windows and front and back doors open, it was cold outside.

 

If we light it now it's the bear minimum logs in the stove with minimum air.

[patp]

Firstly, I would keep an alternate heat source. We never know when we might get power cuts or breakdowns in heating systems. Plus, there is always the aesthetic value of a lovely log fire!

 

We have visited lots of friends homes where they have either built or renovated to get large open spaces in their living areas. Our hosts will often take us to some cosy room or corner where they feel more comfortable. Large open spaces impress people but living in them is not the nicest experience in my opinion. I am not a lover of kitchen diners as I like to leave the kitchen behind when I eat my meal and do not want any guests around when I am cooking. Each to their own. I would not buy a house with such a large living area attached to a working kitchen.

 

Another thought is the North East facing aspect. If you have the option could you not orientate more to the South or West to make the most of the light and sunshine that comes from that direction? After living in a South facing house I would never choose to live any other way!

 

Good luck with whatever you choose to do.

[AliG]

Congrats on the planning permission.

 

That's a nice looking house and the downstairs design is a good start.

 

As a starting point for the rooms I would suggest you consider what you want to do with each room and what furniture you want in there.

 

Larders seem to me to be the big in thing at the moment. All the food in our house fits in the fridge, the freezer and one 2m tall 600x600 cupboard., maybe a few things spill into another cupboard. You have allocated around 10sq metres to a larder. That is almost another entire room.

 

You describe this as your forever house. If that is the case have you not considered having a downstairs bedroom and shower room in case there is a scenario where someone cannot easily get up the stairs. There is ample room to do this between the rear of the garage, boiler room and larder. However it depends on if this is something you want before making specific suggestions.

 

As noted I would have the boiler room accessed direct from the house. I seem to be in ours a surprising amount of time.

 

BC issues with kitchen open to stairs also have to be looked at.

 

Upstairs is another matter. Why go to all the effort to have a lovely open sunny hall downstairs and then walk up the stairs to a totally enclosed and small landing. I always advocate for a window on the upstairs landing if possible. In this case I would incorporate the "powder room" as a small sitting area on the landing.

 

You probably don't need another store room upstairs with all that room in the integral garage downstairs. I would make that a bathroom and the current bathroom an en suite giving a much nicer bedroom for visitors.

 

Our dressing room is smaller than our ensuite. One thing to consider with this and the larder is that the larger you make these rooms th more they cost in fitted furniture. Fitted furniture for our dressing room cost around 7k if I remember correctly and that wasn't going to somewhere crazy like Sharp's. As mentioned I might look to take some space from the dressing room for a laundry room. The en suite seems OK to me, it could be a little larger. The master bedroom itself makes very poor use of space (TBF ours does too). Do you want a sitting area in there, or could you rejig it so more of the eaves space is storage as it will be wasted as part of the room. The RHS of the master next to the "powder room" would make a good storage cupboard if as I suggested you make the storage room a bathroom. Unless these areas are storage or sitting areas, no one wants to walk into an area with 1.5m ceiling height so it just becomes water space. You might also consider putting the headboard end of the bed under one of these areas as it is a better use of the lower space.

 

There seems to be a small vaulted area and extra velux above part of the larder. That seems a waste of money and it would look odd in the kitchen.

[SteamyTea]

3 hours ago, Glen said:

also not a great fan of their appearance in a prominent position

That is why roof integrated is used in new builds.

[Onoff]

5 minutes ago, SteamyTea said:

That is why roof integrated is used in new builds.

 

5 minutes ago, SteamyTea said:

That is why roof integrated is used in new builds.

 

Talking to a chap the other day, his son was scaffolding a place so they could retro fit mesh around the on-roof PV panels. Seems they had a pigeon / bird problem with them nesting under the array.

[Pocster]

On 27/09/2023 at 13:16, JohnMo said:

what's a powder room?

Cocaine lounge 

[JohnMo]

58 minutes ago, Pocster said:

Cocaine lounge 

That makes sense! Thank You for clarification.

[Pocster]

4 minutes ago, JohnMo said:

That makes sense! Thank You for clarification.

Not to be sniffed at .

[Onoff]

20 minutes ago, Pocster said:

Not to be sniffed at .

 

Maybe draw a line under it now?