Vaillant ashp (my battle with).

[zoothorn]

1 hour ago, JohnMo said:

That bloke down the pub, now I understand. At least it's all straight now.

No.

 

By whoever did the structure calculations. As I keep saying but evidently falls on deaf ears.

 

The pro chaps with his clipboard, after zipping round Zoot Acres doing his sums, refused to green light the install. 
 

I begged. Because my cylinder was a rusty mouse-ridden clapped out affair, & the install would offer me a new one. How am I meant -not- to beg him?
 

Zoot

[zoothorn]

1 hour ago, JohnMo said:

Or just switch off the ASHP and do nothing. He seems to want a cold house. This threads being going on for 2.5 years and nothing changes. He had a cold house then, and still does.

Hang on.

 

Thread title JohnMo, is Battle with Vaillant. My battle lasted 5 years. I needed & the intention of the thread was to

 

A) warn prospective folks of this Co's fairly hapless hardware (new one, 3 weeks & a fault- say no more)

 

B) perhaps glean some BH support &/ or advice, by dipping in halfway through the battle at 2.5 years: it's taken a year off my life in stress.

And everyone now sticks up for Vaillant's hardware, rarely for me. All I did, picking up the thread recently a year later, was 1) to inform folks of winning my David-Goliath struggle, & then 2) to say incredulously that Ive already had a fault in 3 weeks of the new one.

 

Ok? Thanks, Zoot

 

 

[ProDave]

37 minutes ago, zoothorn said:

Because that will struggle too. And Ive just had this installed!

Oh no it won't.........

 

If you really don't believe a 30kW oil boiler would succeed in heating your house then there is no hope whatsoever for getting your house warm because you won't try anything.

[-rick-]

@zoothorn

 

I think I was the one who saw you saying you were still cold and suggested you try again at making changes to things so you could get warm. I know you didn't come back here asking for that, but since you have a new system it does seem worth trying.

 

I agree with @Nickfromwales that this thread could do with a timeout until after the engineer visit.

 

We are all trying to help. I know some of the suggestions seem wrong to you. The go against your experience. All I can say is that people aren't making these things up, they are the result of real-life experience in their own and friends homes. We are passing on what has worked for us and many others.

 

Once the engineer has visited then you have a choice, you can come back here and work with us to try new things (even things that seem wrong to you) to see if it works, or you can not.

 

As a group I think we all think its possible for you to be much more comfortable than you are now (not perfect, but better). To be clear though, it will cost you more in bills. If you can't stand any higher bills (at least double what you pay now) then that puts a blocker on things.

[zoothorn]

9 minutes ago, -rick- said:

@zoothorn

 

I think I was the one who saw you saying you were still cold and suggested you try again at making changes to things so you could get warm. I know you didn't come back here asking for that, but since you have a new system it does seem worth trying.

 

I agree with @Nickfromwales that this thread could do with a timeout until after the engineer visit.

 

We are all trying to help. I know some of the suggestions seem wrong to you. The go against your experience. All I can say is that people aren't making these things up, they are the result of real-life experience in their own and friends homes. We are passing on what has worked for us and many others.

 

Once the engineer has visited then you have a choice, you can come back here and work with us to try new things (even things that seem wrong to you) to see if it works, or you can not.

 

As a group I think we all think its possible for you to be much more comfortable than you are now (not perfect, but better). To be clear though, it will cost you more in bills. If you can't stand any higher bills (at least double what you pay now) then that puts a blocker on things.

Absolutely agree Rick.

 

I do appreciate what folks are saying, & once visit happens (tbh surely a quick fix- chap should have time for Q's) I can put his suggestions up/ see what he thinks of your 'list reply I've bookmarked.

 

Whether I'll understand him though, is often the problem for me. I'll do my best though.

 

Firstly see if I can persuade him to put controller/ thermostat, well away from near to cylinder as it is now. If not, ask him how I'd do it myself. That'll be a start, even if I'm thinking of convenience to get at it, rather than your pov which is to move it chiefly to put it in a cold room. 
 

Thanks fir the help chaps, it's all welcome even if loggerheads  arise. Zoot

 

 

[-rick-]

11 minutes ago, zoothorn said:

Firstly see if I can persuade him to put controller/ thermostat, well away from near to cylinder as it is now. If not, ask him how I'd do it myself. That'll be a start, even if I'm thinking of convenience to get at it, rather than your pov which is to move it chiefly to put it in a cold room. 

 

The important thing is the thermostat is moved into the cold, old, part of the building, not close a raditor or other heat source. It doesn't strictly have to be the coldest room as long as its generally cold in the area.

 

Putting it in the hallway or the bottom of the stairs is common.

 

If you moved it into your warm bedroom/warm workshop that would be bad and might make things worse.

Edited 5 hours ago by -rick-

[ProDave]

Another issue with heat pumps, is the supplied controller often comes with a pre made cable to connect it and that is not always very long.  Mine would not reach to where I ultimately would have liked it, so is in my plant room / workshop.  That is another reason why I don't use the timer or thermostat built into the ASHP controller and instead configured it to use external controls.

 

So just "move your thermostat" might not be a trivial exercise.

[-rick-]

11 minutes ago, ProDave said:

So just "move your thermostat" might not be a trivial exercise.

 

@Nickfromwales's suggestion of just wiring in an external wireless one is the easy solution to that. TBH I think that's likely the better option in anycase. But doesn't seem like something that will be ready for Monday.

[Nickfromwales]

3 hours ago, zoothorn said:

Because that will struggle too. And Ive just had this installed!

No it won't, a 30kw oil boiler would cook you alive in there. Accept this as a fact because I have installed gas and oil all my life. It's not a hobby, it's fed and clothed us, and if nothing worked I wouldn't have a career out of it would I? 

 

Part 1.

 

Please stop ignoring the fact that I live in a near identical house to yours, it's a little frustrating for you to keep dismissing direct and factual information.

 

My gas boiler doesn't ever output more than 12-14kw, because my house is never allowed to go "stone cold" each day (in winter) and only ever runs at its max output when producing instant hot water (it's a combi boiler).

 

To shut down what the buffoons who fitted this have stupidly said to you, because it is absolute and total fecking nonsense, you can listen to and rely upon what I am saying to you, because I happily consider myself to be an 'expert' in making homes comfortable. 

 

I've been fitting oil boilers / gas boilers / electric 1 and 3 phase boilers / ASHP's and GSHP's for around 30 years.

 

Installing MVHR etc for over 10 years.

 

Wiring things for over 36 years, including the QMII before it's maiden voyage out of Southampton.

 

Listen to me, and all the other people on here, most of whom know more than I do and have all got ASHP's or gas boilers, and they all work.

 

****************

 

Part 2.

 

I have already offered a solution which was to run the heating at night on the setback temp, the one you said you'd ask the engineer to implement for you so we can run at least one months TRIAL of the heating.

 

I suggested times for the heating to go between comfort and setback, I said go for 15^oC setback (this would not overheat you, but it would also allow the rest of the house to not go "stone cold"), and you can define these to suit your wishes; I suggested 22:00 - "setback" 07:00 - "comfort". 

 

This is how I use mine, but with a very small difference in temp between night and day. I do this because it is cheaper to not let the house go "stone cold" every night. FACT.

 

The above methodology of going from setback > comfort > setback > comfort and so on, is done by you having the heating "ON CONSTANT" vs it going "ON/OFF", but it will cycle the heat in only to replace what is lost to the clouds eg it won't be overheating you at all, just keeping you at the lowest temperature that you will accept (the one where you cant see your breath at night).

 

 

*************

 

Part 3.

 

The extra room stat would take command of the times and temp, and would avoid you needing to learn how to make these changes on the fixed controller that came with the ASHP.

 

I suggested this as:

a) it needs to be moved

b) moving it requires cable / time / labour / higher cost (even though I'd insist your "expert" should move it for free as it's their laziness that has resulted in it being in the wrong place) so you'd be spending money moving a thing you still fear or cannot manipulate.

c) the units like mine are very easy to use and to program / make changes on. These have simple timeclocks which are no more difficult to set than a digital alarm clock. This means as you trial and error different temps at different times, you can make these changes without any "experts" needing be in attendance. The one that you have now just becomes an installer interface for making fundamental changes (such as the 40-45 flow temp settings and hot water temp setting)

 

Lets get heating cracked, and then the installer tomorrow can better time the hot water to suit you. Think today what times each day you need the tank hot and ask him to set these times.

 

 

[JohnMo]

1 hour ago, Nickfromwales said:

No it won't, a 30kw oil boiler would cook you alive in there. Accept this as a fact because I have installed gas and oil all my life. It's not a hobby, it's fed and clothed us, and if nothing worked I wouldn't have a career out of it would I? 

 

Part 1.

 

Please stop ignoring the fact that I live in a near identical house to yours, it's a little frustrating for you to keep dismissing direct and factual information.

 

My gas boiler doesn't ever output more than 12-14kw, because my house is never allowed to go "stone cold" each day (in winter) and only ever runs at its max output when producing instant hot water (it's a combi boiler).

 

To shut down what the buffoons who fitted this have stupidly said to you, because it is absolute and total fecking nonsense, you can listen to and rely upon what I am saying to you, because I happily consider myself to be an 'expert' in making homes comfortable. 

 

I've been fitting oil boilers / gas boilers / electric 1 and 3 phase boilers / ASHP's and GSHP's for around 30 years.

 

Installing MVHR etc for over 10 years.

 

Wiring things for over 36 years, including the QMII before it's maiden voyage out of Southampton.

 

Listen to me, and all the other people on here, most of whom know more than I do and have all got ASHP's or gas boilers, and they all work.

 

****************

 

Part 2.

 

I have already offered a solution which was to run the heating at night on the setback temp, the one you said you'd ask the engineer to implement for you so we can run at least one months TRIAL of the heating.

 

I suggested times for the heating to go between comfort and setback, I said go for 15^oC setback (this would not overheat you, but it would also allow the rest of the house to not go "stone cold"), and you can define these to suit your wishes; I suggested 22:00 - "setback" 07:00 - "comfort". 

 

This is how I use mine, but with a very small difference in temp between night and day. I do this because it is cheaper to not let the house go "stone cold" every night. FACT.

 

The above methodology of going from setback > comfort > setback > comfort and so on, is done by you having the heating "ON CONSTANT" vs it going "ON/OFF", but it will cycle the heat in only to replace what is lost to the clouds eg it won't be overheating you at all, just keeping you at the lowest temperature that you will accept (the one where you cant see your breath at night).

 

 

*************

 

Part 3.

 

The extra room stat would take command of the times and temp, and would avoid you needing to learn how to make these changes on the fixed controller that came with the ASHP.

 

I suggested this as:

a) it needs to be moved

b) moving it requires cable / time / labour / higher cost (even though I'd insist your "expert" should move it for free as it's their laziness that has resulted in it being in the wrong place) so you'd be spending money moving a thing you still fear or cannot manipulate.

c) the units like mine are very easy to use and to program / make changes on. These have simple timeclocks which are no more difficult to set than a digital alarm clock. This means as you trial and error different temps at different times, you can make these changes without any "experts" needing be in attendance. The one that you have now just becomes an installer interface for making fundamental changes (such as the 40-45 flow temp settings and hot water temp setting)

 

Lets get heating cracked, and then the installer tomorrow can better time the hot water to suit you. Think today what times each day you need the tank hot and ask him to set these times.

 

 

If he ignores this, then there is no hope.

[Nickfromwales]

7 minutes ago, JohnMo said:

If he ignores this, then there is no hope.

The nation is on the edge of their seats.

[SteamyTea]

2 hours ago, Nickfromwales said:

clothed us,

A legend in a loincloth.