Need for banisters on steps?

[Andehh]

We have 3 large steps going into our kitchen area, total height of approx 700mm.

 

The top of the stairs 'opens' into the large kitchen, but apparently we need a handrail either side of these steps.

 

The challenge we have on one side of the stairs there is no wall to meet them, so we are needing to build a swarf wall approx 900mm tall by 600mm long to support a handrail. 

 

This is a really clunky design into an otherwise open kitchen.

 

Does anyone know how 'hard & fast' this rule is? Ill give building control a call tomorrow, but i'm keen to know the exact rules, and 'Part M' docs are not revealing to me what I need to achieve.

 

The stairs are 2m wide, and will have a bannister on one side! 

 

Many thanks,

Edited March 27, 2023 by Andehh

[Mr Punter]

700mm is a lot over 3 steps.  If it is just 3 risers, they would be 233mm and the maximum allowed is 220mm.  I would hope that BC would allow handrail on one side only.

[Andehh]

Thanks, I may be wrong in imaging it...im not on site now...... but it is only 3 very ''casual' steps to the top.

 

Just don't want to ring building control & use up any good will on such a ''small'' thing (in my mind!)

[ETC]

Can you post a couple of pictures?

[Andehh]

 

[Andehh]

Hopefully this helps demonstrate... You can see the stun wall we have installed, but it needs to go up an extra block and the more we look at it, the more of an eye sore it appears. 

 

This looks much more naff, vs not having it and opening up more of the kitchen as you walk up....

 

(we are plaster boarding as we speak,hence sudden need to double check it) 

 

Edited March 27, 2023 by Andehh

[ProDave]

You can have a stair type handrail supported from the stairs not attached to a wall.

 

It could (cough) disappear after sign off.

[markc]

I would have gone for a self supporting feature balustrade and rail instead of the wall.

[Temp]

13 minutes ago, markc said:

I would have gone for a self supporting feature balustrade and rail instead of the wall.

+1 There must be dozens of different solutions.

 

Oak posts and rail with glass panel.

Ditto but metal posts and rail.

All glass, no posts or rail

Numerous styles of wooden bannisters and railings.

Wrought iron.

Curved brickwork with holes in

Glass bricks to the ceiling.

Hugely expensive curved polished copper panel 🙂

 

 

 

 

[Andehh]

Thanks, builder is a bit twitched on installing something that obviously looks like it will be ripped out in day 2 of moving in, having installed the wall already. 

 

Have to admit, when we settled on the wall several months ago I wasn't thinking it through at the time. 

 

Could a bannister simply be screwed through the stairs stringer into the block work behind? Rendering wall no longer required?  Or even screwed through the tiles on the floor of steps, and grout/paint pen filled afterwards? 

 

This would factually speaking give a bannister, but building control arnt stupid... Would they smell a rat, and demand more 'permenance' ? 

Edited March 28, 2023 by Andehh

[Russell griffiths]

I would get a metal hand rail fabricated to bc spec, bolt it down to the concrete. 

After sign off find off bolts and replace with a new tile. 

some regs are a bit silly, it’s a domestic property, not a library or school. 

 

Get that wall  cut back and build it as you want it. 

Edited March 28, 2023 by Russell griffiths

[Marvin]

hi @Andehh

 

Not sure a hand rail would be enough. If you remove the stub wall, then I think you would need a banister set.  

 

You may need 3 forms of protection:

One to stop children's heads going through a barrier.

Two  900mm high protection at kitchen level.

Three a hand rail to the stairs.

 

In my humble opinion, the blue rails would be an option but not the rails at kitchen level.

 

 

Good luck

 

Marvin 

Edited March 28, 2023 by Marvin
clarification

[Marvin]

Building regs approved document K

 

https://www.planningportal.co.uk/applications/building-control-applications/building-control/approved-documents/part-k-protection-from-falling-collision-and-impact/approved-document-k

 

 

Edited March 28, 2023 by Marvin
Completely changed

[Conor]

As above, as the rise is more than 600mm, you need handrail, and ballustrading at the side to protect against falls, mum 900mm high.) As it's 2m wide, you will technically need handrail on both sides.... But here I think your BCO could show some compassion and leeway. I'd go for a metal free standing structure and just remove it after singoff if it really bothers you.

 

Why is the floor level difference 700mm? Your architect really should have known better. Is there an option to add more screed to the lower level? I'm guessing an onsite change / error And if that last step is less than 150mm rise, could be an issue as well.

[Mr Punter]

Can't you just fix a handrail to the wall on the right and get rid of the stub wall?

[Ajn]

As one who five years ago didn't need a handrail. I now need wheels or sticks to get around. Don't dismiss a handrail because today you and yours do not need it! Make it a clean feature and you all win.

 

[ETC]

On 28/03/2023 at 10:55, Conor said:

As above, as the rise is more than 600mm, you need handrail, and ballustrading at the side to protect against falls, mum 900mm high.) As it's 2m wide, you will technically need handrail on both sides.... But here I think your BCO could show some compassion and leeway. I'd go for a metal free standing structure and just remove it after singoff if it really bothers you.

 

Why is the floor level difference 700mm? Your architect really should have known better. Is there an option to add more screed to the lower level? I'm guessing an onsite change / error And if that last step is less than 150mm rise, could be an issue as well.

You won’t need a handrail or guarding to the bottom two steps but because you have a split level on the principal storey you do need a handrail - on each side because it’s a circulation route.

 

As others have said if the difference in floor level is more than 600mm unfortunately or fortunately you will need to guard the drop and as others have said you will need infill panels with uprights less than 100mm apart.

 

I really don’t see a reason why you can’t build something a bit “tastey” that complies.

 

Post a couple of drawings and I’ll have a bash at designing something .