Alfapat Posted January 12, 2023 Share Posted January 12, 2023 I have a Samsung 16kw heat pump, model supplied. It runs but but cuts out and has days you would wander why it doesn’t pick the drops in temperature it is not that reliable . The company that installed have gone to the wall and so have no one in my area (Moray) to service or check it out. I have phoned Freedom pumps and tried to get help to set some Field settings Gen5 controller . One thing I need to get an answer with, is the hot water setting. Sorry if I am on the wrong place to discuss this , but could someone help please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Posted January 12, 2023 Share Posted January 12, 2023 (edited) There are some good Youtube videos on setting up the controller. The heat pump are usually set up to be controlled by a third party thermostat for heating and the inbuilt controller for hot water. Usually, hot water is set as a priority over heating (not too bad for a well insulated tank) so the main thing to check is that the temperature probe is properly sensing the water temperature in the tank. I did have to play around a bit with mine and in the end taped the probe to a stick so I knew it would be in contact with the hot water tank. It might be that the hot water is set on a timer which doesn't coincide with what you want. External temperature shouldn't affect hot water. Weather compensation (called water law on Samsung) only effects flow temperature for heating system. In Scotland that may want tweaking from the standard. Edited January 12, 2023 by George Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alfapat Posted January 13, 2023 Author Share Posted January 13, 2023 Thank you for your replies. Yes Iv watched a lot of the videos , including the one for separate timer on hot water , should it not heat , this is set as advised 3pm and 3am. But I can check that . On the water law I set for 3011 and for Scotland , I can’t remember the secondary figure for that. the hot water is suppose to be as I see it on a high of 48 deg., but never reaches that , so I set it for 50 deg.It doesn’t reach that . It barely reaches 42/43 and was the same before I raised the bar , so to speak. Before water is taken , bath wise in the evening , and the circulating temp is sitting at 52.5 the other night, this three hours after any hot water use, the water was still only 42deg. I’m wandering if it’s scavenging the hot water. A separate Danfoss thermostat which is moved about controls the heating. It’s set at 20 c just now , generally it’s not too bad but sometimes it has I have to waken up the heat pump by increasing the setting and dropping again. The pump doesn’t respond well to .5 , so by the time you realise there is a lot of making up. Presently, I pay 390 a month at 19p/kw, but was higher until I put in underfloor insulation. Not good. The probe sits about a foot above the immersion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bozza Posted January 13, 2023 Share Posted January 13, 2023 Have you tried https://plumbingandrenewables.co.uk they are based in Alves, are very good & they installed & service my ASHP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProDave Posted January 13, 2023 Share Posted January 13, 2023 Post some pictures of your hot water tank. If the water is circulating through the input coil at 52 degrees, then it should reach 48 in the tank, not get stuck at 42. Heat pumps normally heat the rooms OR the hot water, never both together. If it is "stuck" trying to heat the hot water for so long it might not be heating the rooms which might explain your other issue with heating. What is the background? new install in a new house or retro fit in an older house? How are the rooms heated radiators or UFH? if retro fit did you have a new hot water tank? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alfapat Posted January 13, 2023 Author Share Posted January 13, 2023 10 hours ago, Bozza said: Have you tried https://plumbingandrenewables.co.uk they are based in Alves, are very good & they installed & service my ASHP. Great but was it Samsung, I say this because a company merry Inverness agreed to look at the Cowboy installation on behalf of a well known Samsung pump fitting supplier in the south (Freedom) quite helpful they were but the Inv. Company said it was not fitted right so I was charged a further £4500 in order to recommission on top of 18000 and when the first fault came up they said we only do Mitsubishi ? That leaves me stranded a bit , however I will look into your suggestion , but I think I have asked them to look at my system and they also said they only do Mitsubishi as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alfapat Posted January 13, 2023 Author Share Posted January 13, 2023 4 hours ago, ProDave said: Post some pictures of your hot water tank. If the water is circulating through the input coil at 52 degrees, then it should reach 48 in the tank, not get stuck at 42. Heat pumps normally heat the rooms OR the hot water, never both together. If it is "stuck" trying to heat the hot water for so long it might not be heating the rooms which might explain your other issue with heating. What is the background? new install in a new house or retro fit in an older house? How are the rooms heated radiators or UFH? if retro fit did you have a new hot water tank? Radiators all replaced with larger ones at time of fitting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alfapat Posted January 13, 2023 Author Share Posted January 13, 2023 13 hours ago, Bozza said: Have you tried https://plumbingandrenewables.co.uk they are based in Alves, are very good & they installed & service my ASHP. Sent email. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radian Posted January 13, 2023 Share Posted January 13, 2023 The HW cylinder and buffer appear to be in a cold loft space with minimal OEM insulation. Could this be why it struggles so much? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProDave Posted January 13, 2023 Share Posted January 13, 2023 Nothing looks immediately wrong other than it's is a presumably cold loft so heat losses will be greater and you need more insulation on ALL the pipes you don't want to be seeing any bare copper up there. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alfapat Posted January 13, 2023 Author Share Posted January 13, 2023 39 minutes ago, Radian said: The HW cylinder and buffer appear to be in a cold loft space with minimal OEM insulation. Could this be why it struggles so much? It’s certainly cold, I am not a big fan of that foam to be honest , but there is still a large difference between what the temp gets to and the target. Some of the pipes are cold supply. However may look at wrap around alternatives , if there is such a thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saveasteading Posted January 13, 2023 Share Posted January 13, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, Alfapat said: wrap around alternatives Our plumbing contractor used rockwool pipe enclosure more than the foam stuff. You tend to see it in plant rooms and long hidden runs. I don't think it is theoretically better than the foam stuff, but in reality it seems to work better. Also I think it doesn't shrink or fall off like the stuff in my attic does. We are using Plumbing and Renewables too. Not at the stage of fitting the heat pumps yet, but happy so far. Edited January 13, 2023 by saveasteading Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterW Posted January 13, 2023 Share Posted January 13, 2023 5 minutes ago, saveasteading said: it doesn't shrink or fall off like the stuff in my attic does. means it’s not fitted properly and not had clips or tape applied.. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alfapat Posted January 13, 2023 Author Share Posted January 13, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, Alfapat said: It’s certainly cold, I am not a big fan of that foam to be honest , but there is still a large difference between what the temp gets to and the target. Some of the pipes are cold supply. However may look at wrap around alternatives , if there is such a thing. Ok to add , I’ve just spent 2 hrs tidying and doubling up at joints etc with the spare foam lengths and a lot happier , not a Bonnie sight but more secure . Thanks for the prompt ! Apart from needing a beer from the floor insulation on the throat haha! just read the thread on cold in the attic , perhaps there is some over all blanket I can put over bothe tanks and immediate area? Edited January 13, 2023 by Alfapat Amendment Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saveasteading Posted January 13, 2023 Share Posted January 13, 2023 21 minutes ago, PeterW said: means it’s not fitted properly and not had clips or tape applied.. Some has been displaced by big feet or boxes moving.A lot of it does seem to have shrunk though. Perhaps quality? There is no tape. I am going to give it an overhaul. Any suggestions on quality and even source for the foam stuff (the pipes are too close for anything else) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alfapat Posted January 13, 2023 Author Share Posted January 13, 2023 B and Q , have options . Am I missing pictures of what you are talking about? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alfapat Posted January 13, 2023 Author Share Posted January 13, 2023 So continuing my circulation and hot water temp being low , anymore suggestions apart from getting a knowledgeable ASHP Engineer! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProDave Posted January 13, 2023 Share Posted January 13, 2023 26 minutes ago, Alfapat said: So continuing my circulation and hot water temp being low , anymore suggestions apart from getting a knowledgeable ASHP Engineer! You mentioned the flow temperature at 52 degrees earlier? I run mine at 55 degrees to achieve a water temperature of 48 degrees. the close it is to the target water temperature the lower heat transfers. I wonder with higher heat losses you reach equilibrium before reaching set water temperature. Try increasing the ASHP flow temperate to say 56 degrees? And insulate all pipes, even the vent pipe top left. It may not have water in it but is a conduction path to the cylinder to then dissipate heat to the loft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterW Posted January 13, 2023 Share Posted January 13, 2023 JTM have Armaflex which is about 1/3rd better insulation value for same thickness and is flexible so bends etc are easier than poly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnMo Posted January 13, 2023 Share Posted January 13, 2023 The you have a photo of the cylinder data plate. It should show the size of your coil within the cylinder, I suspect it's too small. Ideally it should 3m2 a little smaller ok, bigger even better. But suspect it's not. Also the floor area around your cylinder needs to filled with insulation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alfapat Posted January 13, 2023 Author Share Posted January 13, 2023 So continuing my circulation and hot water temp being low , anymore suggestions apart from getting a knowledgeable ASHP Engineer! You guys are the first to following up my particular problems and I cannot thank you enough. I will post 3 further pics of my insulation improvements and water tank specs. I thought I posted comments a wee while ago but I think that’s disappeared. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProDave Posted January 13, 2023 Share Posted January 13, 2023 6 minutes ago, Alfapat said: That says nothing about the input coil capacity so I guess it is nothing special? It is certainly not a heat pump tank with an enlarged high capacity high surface area input coil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dpmiller Posted January 13, 2023 Share Posted January 13, 2023 I might be wrong but I think HGC is High Gain Coil in Joule parlance but if so that only means a 2.8m2 coil vs the 0.8 of the standard version. not stellar for sure Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnMo Posted January 13, 2023 Share Posted January 13, 2023 Smaller the coil the hotter the flow temp required to get cylinder to heat. As Dave says increase the flow temp. Watch the cylinder/heat pump as you need to know what temp you reach. The set the thermostat on the cylinder 1 deg below that. If the temp is not where you want, the only thing to do is increase flow temp. Note. You don't want the thermostat set higher than the flow temp temp can achieve, otherwise the heat pump run for ever trying to achieve it for no gain. But will cost you money for nothing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alfapat Posted January 13, 2023 Author Share Posted January 13, 2023 Thanks Guys , once again , who is right about cylinder , I have no had any comments from an ashp service local to here or Black isle renewables , who have washed their hands to repairing or looking after this. I have set the flow to 51 and cylinder to 49 , so will see what happens. 45 minutes ago, ProDave said: That says nothing about the input coil capacity so I guess it is nothing special? It is certainly not a heat pump tank with an enlarged high capacity high surface area input coil. I will look at manual for clues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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