Door Linings for Blockwork

[MortarThePoint]

This feels like such a daft question, so sorry. I have Blockwork walls to be wet plastered (HardWall + MultiFinish). As I imagine it, the lining depth should be the sum of

 - 2no. (i.e. 1no. on each side) MultiFinish skims 2mm each

 - 2no. HardWall base 11mm each

 - 1no. "100mm" block 96mm

TOTAL: 122mm

But linings are 108mm or 132mm finished depths?

 

Howdens Door Lining Kit

 

Am I missing something or should I be ripping them down to 122mm? @nod I hear plasterers hate linings being wrong so what do you suggest? Am I too thin on the MultiFinish layer?

[nod]

Not a daft question at all 

We have lots of issues with skimming and more often taping to the wrong linings 5 mil for skim flush for tape 

132 is fine for hardwall 

16 mil either side plained back 4 mil around casings and beads

Remember you will need at least 10 mil to cover an electrical capping 

I always allow for 10-25 mil of thickness when quoting 

[PeterW]

Doubt you’ll get perfect 11mm base and most spreads will hit the door linings if that’s what they can see. Also check your 132mm casings as I’ve had them as thin as 128mm and as thick as 138mm depending on supplier. 
 

I don’t like planted linings either but that’s just preference 
 

 

[MortarThePoint]

1 hour ago, nod said:

Not a daft question at all 

We have lots of issues with skimming and more often taping to the wrong linings 5 mil for skim flush for tape 

132 is fine for hardwall 

16 mil either side plained back 4 mil around casings and beads

Remember you will need at least 10 mil to cover an electrical capping 

I always allow for 10-25 mil of thickness when quoting 

Thanks, is that 16mm of just HardWall base to then have the finish skim as extra?

When you say plained back around casings and beads does that mean the finish layer is thicker there then?

[MortarThePoint]

1 hour ago, PeterW said:

Doubt you’ll get perfect 11mm base and most spreads will hit the door linings if that’s what they can see. Also check your 132mm casings as I’ve had them as thin as 128mm and as thick as 138mm depending on supplier. 
 

I don’t like planted linings either but that’s just preference 

 

Howdens seem OK on the one I have so far opened :-)

[nod]

18 hours ago, MortarThePoint said:

Thanks, is that 16mm of just HardWall base to then have the finish skim as extra?

When you say plained back around casings and beads does that mean the finish layer is thicker there then?

Yes 

They will float the hardwall out flush to the lining Then once it’s set run an angle plane around the angles and lining Cutting it back 2-4 mil 

[joe90]

18 minutes ago, nod said:

Yes 

They will float the hardwall out flush to the lining Then once it’s set run an angle plane around the angles and lining Cutting it back 2-4 mil 

That’s doing it properly, I have come across so many not cut back, just the skim feathered to the lining giving a rounded surface fir the architrave to fit too 🤯.

Edited December 27, 2022 by joe90

[nod]

4 minutes ago, joe90 said:

That’s doing it properly, I have come across so many not cut back, just the skim feathered to the lining giving a rounded surface fir the architrave to fit too 🤯.

 

[MikeSharp01]

Wonder how all this works with shadow gaps? Layer of plaster then the gap forming strip on that then the rest built up to the strip? Then there is the ones with the LEDs in - respect to plasterers🙂. 

[nod]

2 minutes ago, MikeSharp01 said:

Wonder how all this works with shadow gaps? Layer of plaster then the gap forming strip on that then the rest built up to the strip? Then there is the ones with the LEDs in - respect to plasterers🙂. 

The shadow gaps are easier to run with wet plaster than boards 

Much more versatile for curves etc 

 

We wet plaster very few homes now 

Mostly schools and high traffic areas 

[Radian]

15 minutes ago, nod said:

We wet plaster very few homes now 

 

 

Such a pity. I'm seriously considering going through the house one room at a time, chiselling off the dry lining, taping for airtightness and wet plastering - which is what I wanted when the house was built but the building contractor managed to talk me out of it. 😪

 

I did actually win for one room which I plastered myself, the ground floor loo under the staircase which was so small, the dot & dab would have taken up a significant amount of space. Just told 'em to clear off and leave it to me. 🙄

[nod]

The same level of airtightness can be achieved with dry lining and skim as wet plaster If it is done correctly 

 

As a business I use hundreds of bags of Parge coat Always for soundproofing I never refer to it as an airtight coat As it does little or nothing  for airtightness and encourages the dry liners not to seal everything off probably 

 

I dot and dabbed our first build which is extremely airtight and will do the same with our next 

Its roughly the same cost for both 

Probably cheaper for me to wet plaster as I’ll do all the laboure myself 

[ProDave]

1 hour ago, nod said:

I dot and dabbed our first build which is extremely airtight and will do the same with our next 

Its roughly the same cost for both 

Probably cheaper for me to wet plaster as I’ll do all the laboure myself 

Not having a service void then?  I would never build a house without a service void.

[nod]

26 minutes ago, ProDave said:

Not having a service void then?  I would never build a house without a service void.

No

Weve been in five years and haven’t needed to get behind the plaster so far 

 

[ProDave]

20 minutes ago, nod said:

No

Weve been in five years and haven’t needed to get behind the plaster so far 

 

Which means you got it right first time.  But a service void would mean you have a fighting chance of making some alterations without needing to patch it up and re decorate afterwords.

[Mr Punter]

3 hours ago, nod said:

 

 

I have not seen this before.  What is it called / used for?

[nod]

1 hour ago, Mr Punter said:

 

I have not seen this before.  What is it called / used for?

Angle plane 

Gives nice sharp angles and takes any high spots off 

 

[Onoff]

4 hours ago, nod said:

The same level of airtightness can be achieved with dry lining and skim as wet plaster If it is done correctly 

 

As a business I use hundreds of bags of Parge coat Always for soundproofing I never refer to it as an airtight coat As it does little or nothing  for airtightness and encourages the dry liners not to seal everything off probably 

 

I dot and dabbed our first build which is extremely airtight and will do the same with our next 

Its roughly the same cost for both 

Probably cheaper for me to wet plaster as I’ll do all the laboure myself 

 

By not page coating the blocks but having a really good, airtight, dot and dabbed, boarded wall do you not end up with it "cold" behind the plasterboard?

 

 

[nod]

2 hours ago, Onoff said:

 

By not page coating the blocks but having a really good, airtight, dot and dabbed, boarded wall do you not end up with it "cold" behind the plasterboard?

 

 

Not at all
Parge would make absolutely no difference to the void behind the boards 

 

In all my years as a plastering company I’ve never been given a bill of quantities stating that Parge coat is for anything other than soundproofing 

 

Years ago the block work would be full of snots and gaps A Parge coat would have definitely helped there 

But nowadays blocks should all be jointed 

Very little air will pass through a 100 mil block 

But if the D&D is sealed properly Along with ceiling lines Very little will get through 

 

But if anyone does decide to add Parge About 4 hour on a a five bed house 

Tell the dry liners it’s a soundcoat Like a says on the bag 

Or nothing will get sealed 

 

Weave one Multi National contractor that does actually carry out 1-7 air tests Brick and block They are scoring a two without any special measures 

Contractor standard windows and doors ( Velfag )

[Onoff]

3 minutes ago, nod said:

Years ago the block work would be full of snots and gaps A Parge coat would have definitely helped there 

 

Ta. This is more the case with my house where it would have helped. There's one room, block built with a 2" cavity. Outside is rendered so most are sealed. Inside it's just 1" batten onto the blocks then 1/4" hardboard and woodchip paper. Behind the hardboard there's a gale blowing. Comes up through the suspended floor into the walls too.

 

 

[Radian]

One small wall in my recent room-in-roof garage extension got the D & D treatment - as I'd missed giving any other instruction for it and the builders automatically reached for the easiest solution: 

 

 

The wall has two concrete block leafs with EPS insulation in the cavity. The plasterboard was fitted up to the slope of the roof (visible at top right) and . While there was an attempt to put a continuous bead around the perimeter (as the contractor assured me had been done) clearly there are gaps so any infiltration from the cavity works its way around the edge and blows around behind the boards.

 

I just don't see enough care and attention ever being likely to be applied in the construction industry. One small gap in a supposedly continuous bead of adhesive can open up an entire wall to external air currents totally short-circuiting the insulation.

[ProDave]

4 minutes ago, Radian said:

I just don't see enough care and attention ever being likely to be applied in the construction industry. One small gap in a supposedly continuous bead of adhesive can open up an entire wall to external air currents totally short-circuiting the insulation.

I am convinced the only way the average building monkey will ever get a room in roof right, is to make the entire roof a warm roof. Fairly easy to detail, then all the roof space even the bit not used for the rooms, is inside the warm envelope of the house.

[Radian]

3 minutes ago, ProDave said:

I am convinced the only way the average building monkey will ever get a room in roof right, is to make the entire roof a warm roof. Fairly easy to detail, then all the roof space even the bit not used for the rooms, is inside the warm envelope of the house.

 

Amen to that. But as we are right on the border of a conservation area, adding 200+mm to the ridge height was going to put a major crimp in our planning approval.

[Gus Potter]

On 26/12/2022 at 12:58, MortarThePoint said:

Am I missing something or should I be ripping them down to 122mm?

The tolerance that the brickie is allowed in the verticality of the block work.

 

I have an old Elu table saw, good 300mm dia blade and expect to have to rip down the door standards on occasion, facings and stops from time to time.. use old scool skills to hang a door.

 

You can buy door sets.. like you go to Kwik fit, but if you want quality expect that a door will take an extra 6 hours to fit right and remain right for many years. I have used hard woods that are oiled hence part of the extra time.

 

Take your time on hanging doors and forming the door sets.. in my own house I spent ages fitting them.. they just shut great, tight and will remain so.. but it takes time to get this quality job. You also need good quality ironmongery.

 

What has made the job easier when I look back is modern adhesives and the invention of the chop (mitre saw)... but if you have a finishing joiner turning up and they don't have a sharp hand plane.. then they probably don't know what they are really doing.

 

If you are having really traditional finishes you may not want to use posidrive screws on the hinges, to keep things authentic you want to maybe use slotted wood screws.. the slot in the screws in a traditional hinge should be vertical when tightened.. this is to stop the oils / paints from dripping and the slots should all be in aligment.. yes it's those details that matter.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[MortarThePoint]

Door linings are progressing nicely and I am staying a week ahead of the plasterer there. I only have three more to do in blockwork now. One of them is a bit odd though. It's an interior section of a cavity wall. The Utility is a single storey bit on the side of a two storey wall so the lower part of the cavity wall is warm on both sides and has no cavity closer, just a full blockwork reveal. What's the normal ay of doing a door lining in this situation? fit it to one side and plaster up to the back face of the door lining? Not sure how the plasterer would get a good edge on the back face of the door lining.