is this reasonable?

[Dan1979]

Dear members,

 

I am building a self build with an architect and build team.

 

It's a long house - 23 metres and sits on a hill with views in both directions in the countryside. 

 

We've had some issues with the foundations which are now 'in'. We've put the first course of brick down having 'mm'd and ahh'd' about where to site it on those foundations. Now the first course is down I think we should have placed the bricks on a slightly different line - by around 200mm.  That would just look more "right" to me.  In particular over the length of the building (23 metres) one end would be moved 200mm and the other end would stay where it is. It would make it appear straighter, in my mind, to the views. But I am getting myself quite confused. It's not the end of the world to relay the first course but need to make a decision. 

 

Over the course of 22 metres however, part of my brain says 'will you ever notice?' a change of 200mm. But I have this idea it will be more straight. 

 

I want to ask the forum - should I get 'in a twist' over this? Because there have been some issues with the foundations I have found the process very stressful and my perspective may be waning!

Yours 

 

Dan1979.

 

 

[Conor]

You'll never notice once is up. How was this an issue in the first place? How were the footings and brickwork setout?

[Kelvin]

You’re never going to notice it. If you think you do then a bit of soft landscaping will address it. I suggest you’re probably overthinking it. 
 

 

[ProDave]

As above. Unless you have a gable wall full of glass, your view will be restricted by window positioning.  Are you building TF or brick and block?

 

Once foundations are in up to slab level, you might want then to check all window positions are correct and see if you need to move or re size some windows to maximise views.

[Alan Ambrose]

Ah the dreaded comprise…

 

if it’s easy and cheap I would relay them  - that’s one of the privileges of a self build.

 

Then make a mental note, particularly for later decisions that are hard to change after the fact, to ‘consider 19 times and build once’.

 

There will be some things during the build that will be hard and expensive to change after the fact. Brace yourself that you will just have to live with those decisions.

 

Alan

[Dan1979]

Thanks, 

 

all - to answer the questions: 

 

1. easy and cheap to change - tbc - three to four days for a brick layer.

 

2. History - we originally set out a line in the field with paint. For reasons I won't bore you with the concrete founds had to be lifted and re-poured. We lost the painted agreed line so I have been somewhat confused ever since about the line to adopt for the front of the house to 'address the landscape'. The whole thing has some what sapped my mental reserves!

D

[Conor]

Getting out of the ground is the hard bit. It might be worth getting somebody in with a total station to see where you've set everything out, esp the levels.

[ProDave]

For those reading (too late for the OP I am afraid) once you have your perfect line painted on the ground, you set up "profiles" around the site, far enough back to not be bothered by the digger, and these mark the lines you want to achieve.  So once the digger gets busy you can check you are digging in the right place with a laser or even a simple string line between your profiles.

[markc]

As above, plus I’m a bit confused regarding your dilemma, are you thinking the lines/corners may not be straight or square? If so this needs sorting now. If it’s your perception of the position “in space” then it may well be all in your head. Buildings never look right when the founds are dug … ohh it’s small, thought it would be bigger, feels odd etc. etc. this changes completely when walls are up.

[PeterW]

29 minutes ago, Dan1979 said:

That would just look more "right" to me.  In particular over the length of the building (23 metres) one end would be moved 200mm and the other end would stay where it is.

200/23000 is what you’re suggesting or just shy of 0.5 degrees out. That means over a 5km visual line, the horizon will move 43m left or right …. That’s not worth the hassle of moving !!! 
 

you also have the issue that you need to centre on the foundations - unless your founds are 800mm or wider then you will end up on an edge and the BCO may have something to say about that.

 

Leave it alone, and crack on

[Dan1979]

yep it's visualising it in the space - the blocks themselves are 'straight'! It is in my 'head'. The architect thinks it's fine, FYI. I think the fact that we've gone through the 'trauma' of digging up founds and making difficult decisions and losing our reference points has really confused me here, and causing some sleepless nights. But I do have this niggle which I'm struggling to address, thus turning to this forum. Your comments are all helpful, thank you.

[Radian]

One bit of psychology to add: once a big decision has been made, you're invested in it and won't give it a second thought. It's only at the umming and ahhing stage before the big decision has been made that your mind will be 'all over the place'. Crack on.

[Bonner]

Another bit of psychology … you will have much bigger issues to think about as the build goes up! Consider using a structured decision making process otherwise you will drive yourself mad, and hold up progress if you are not careful.

[Kelvin]

53 minutes ago, Radian said:

One bit of psychology to add: once a big decision has been made, you're invested in it and won't give it a second thought. It's only at the umming and ahhing stage before the big decision has been made that your mind will be 'all over the place'. Crack on.

This is very true. I used to drum this into my team at work. Occasionally the decision comes back to haunt you later of course 😂 

[JohnMo]

I moved into a house years ago, who ever did the foundation measured wrong and it 1m longer than it should be.  Brickie, just followed the foundation line.  Everyone assume it was correct including building control.  Great for me, a longer garage than expected.

[Thorfun]

if I may just add a +1 to the 'leave it and crack on' responses. I've had many of these 'agonising' decisions so far in our build and can safely say that they end up being quite inconsequential and soon fade into distant memory but, at the time, it feels like the biggest decision of your life that could have massive follow on effects as it's not what you thought it would be.

 

I remember our groundworker saying to me that 'building is basically a bodge'! now he wasn't saying that it's done by cowboys (although I think that sometimes it is) what he was saying is that it isn't precision engineering and things happen that are slightly different to as expected and then you just deal with them and find a solution around that. as has been said I don't think you'll notice it.

 

Also, even though you said it's cheap with 3 or 4 days for the bricklayer but that could end up being about £1000 which isn't really cheap. it is in the grand scheme of the whole build but when you get to the point of the build that you're penny pinching as costs have spiralled and you need to save as much as possible that £1000 could go a long way. when I first started I had loads of money from my bank and was like 'yeah, an extra £500 here or there is fine!'. now I'm like 's**t! I've got no money left. I could've done with that £500 I spent last year' etc.

 

just my 2 cents. 🙂 

[Radian]

I'm reminded of how we designed our house and garage to be at 90 degrees forming an L shaped plan. We were not on site when footings were put in and block and beam floors were constructed. Only after the patios were eventually laid did it become obvious that it was about 93 degrees between hose and garage so the slabs were all cut on an angle. At the time I had a mind to have the garage torn down and completely rebuilt but we were keen to see an end to it all. 25 years on it just makes me smile.

[MJNewton]

7 hours ago, Dan1979 said:

But I am getting myself quite confused. It's not the end of the world to relay the first course but need to make a decision. 

 

Over the course of 22 metres however, part of my brain says 'will you ever notice?' a change of 200mm. But I have this idea it will be more straight. 

 

Nothing constructive to add beyond that which has already been said, but I will say that with those thoughts, feelings and dilemmas you're going to fit in very well around here!! 

[MJNewton]

Actually, this might be constructive:

 

https://www.amusingplanet.com/2017/08/the-art-of-deliberate-imperfection.html

 

I can only assume that's what my roofer believed in.

(But come on, *everyone* knows flat roof aren't actually flat don't they? You've got me going again now...)

Edited December 16, 2022 by MJNewton

[saveasteading]

It is understandable to worry that you have one chance to change this. Hence probably overworrying.

 

When the position was first decided, you were at ground level and no ugly trenches. That surely was thd right time to make the decision. 

All the above comments are good. Windows prevent you seeing the wide picture anyway.

And relax.

[Alan Ambrose]

It took me many decades to figure out (before that time I was always fretting over the 'best' option) - that when several options are about equal, even more when you can't decide which one is best - then it doesn't matter much which one you take - it will be very nearly as good as the other option(s) anyway.

 

That's saved me a lot of energy since.

 

Alan