Feck - frozen ufh causing leaks?

[Moonshine]

6 minutes ago, LA3222 said:

I wouldn't stress bud. Move on until you can pump it up to 3 bar with water and then see what happens. 

 

You've got a long way to go, you will have hiccups along the way and that's all this is, a PITA - yes, insurmountable - nah.

 

If it makes you feel better I asked the missus if she wanted the hob (I.e. power) to the island - she said no, me being a idiot chinned off a duct.

 

Guess who changed their mind🤨 Cue me chiselling though a concrete slab a long line so I could run power. That was after I had to buy a flir, Jerry rig the ufh to a willis heater in order to work out where the damn pipes were!

 

A PITA yep....but easier than I thought whilst I spent half hour stood staring at the floor and hating life😎

 

Make sure you mark the area well so when you come back to it, you can identify where the water was showing. Marker pen will not do as it will disappear as you work on the house due to dust etc.

 

yeah i have had worst stretch's with this build, its just one more f'ing annoying thing to sort out.

 

Hopefully not that much longer, we have just started boarding inside now first fix is done (last friday), skimming it next week.

Edited December 13, 2022 by Moonshine

[PeterW]

3 hours ago, LA3222 said:

Close the flow and return on the manifold for each loop then open them up one at a time to see if they hold pressure. Half hour or so.

the valves hold ok but the flow ports are not isolating so they will push past. 

[LA3222]

23 minutes ago, PeterW said:

the valves hold ok but the flow ports are not isolating so they will push past. 

Been a while since I did this, all I can recall is that I closed all of the individual flow and return valves for each loop and then opened them up one at a time. This did/does work because I identified the faulty loop and it is still closed off now and I've been using that manifold for over a year now. 

 

No loss of pressure or water marks since it was capped. I should fix the leak and then get the loop back in the game really, it's in the master bedroom and is one of three loops in there so it would help a lot with keeping the right temp - just keep getting sucked into loads of other jobs though!

[Andehh]

For what its worth OP, I have spent all day on the phone to my builder, his plumber, his site supervisor been on & off site three times etc trying to check my own exposure to this, i basically just didn't turn up for work today.

 

My builder is 3rd generation, a wily but incredibly competent, professional, experienced individual & he is totally confident of this being a very very low risk of pipes freezing in concrete. He never said 'never' but felt it was incredibly unlikely, unless fittings are in there, dodgy pipework fitment, damage etc. I am a Mechanical Engineering by profession, and have real OCD on my build, and he still impresses me with his competency on a regular basis.

 

He/supervisor/plumber etc have all seen fittings pop off, manifolds leak & pipes split when they are outside outside, in -8 degree temps...but for pipes to freeze in concrete is one he has never come across.

 

Out of sheer stubbornness & frankly just telling them to 'do it for my peace of mind' I have convinced our lot to wire the two UFH pumps in & run all the circuits on a high flow rate to keep the water moving, i've got heated oil rads boxed in with insulation near the manifolds to try and get a tiny bit of warmth in them & the team spent an hour sealing & insulating all our open apertures (we are missing two big doors & some large sliding doors) before finishing today...... Just to try and limit any damage/further damage our end, its sat sat totally exposed for the last week before I found this thread & paniced myself.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Andehh]

Out of curiosity, what is the fix if it is worse case scenario, floor up with concrete via cutter/jack hammer, pipes pulled out, re-laid & rescreeded? (few days per room?). Or bury a pipe join in the damaged section, remember where it is & check pressures monthly until you forget about it?

 

(for what its worth I lived for several years with two UFH couplers in our airing cupboard following a manifold move after installation and they never so much as wept once.... )

[LA3222]

Stick a repair coupler in and be done....that's what I intend to do fir my damaged pipe🤷‍♂️

[ProDave]

5 hours ago, Andehh said:

Out of curiosity, what is the fix if it is worse case scenario, floor up with concrete via cutter/jack hammer, pipes pulled out, re-laid & rescreeded? (few days per room?). Or bury a pipe join in the damaged section, remember where it is & check pressures monthly until you forget about it?

 

(for what its worth I lived for several years with two UFH couplers in our airing cupboard following a manifold move after installation and they never so much as wept once.... )

I fitted a repair coupler in our first house, with UFH in pug mix, after we changed the shower layout slightly and fitted a bigger shower tray, and jig sawing the opening for the shower trap resulted in a fountain.  Oops, especially as it was me that laid the UFH pipes so I should have known.

[Mr Punter]

Was this OK in the end @Moonshine?

[Moonshine]

1 hour ago, Mr Punter said:

Was this OK in the end @Moonshine?

 

Jury is out, wet spots have disappeared, and it's still holding 1 bar. 

 

I am still suspicious and want to pressure test at a higher level and see what happens over Christmas 

[BotusBuild]

Feeling smug (sort of) as my UFH loops in the slab have never had water in them, even when we poured the slab. Of course, I still don't know if there has been any damage as I haven't pressure tested yet. So not fully smug

[Mr Punter]

I was pretty sure it would be fine, but that link to the Grand Designs episode made me think twice.  I bet you asked santa for fresh underwear!

[Moonshine]

46 minutes ago, Mr Punter said:

I was pretty sure it would be fine, but that link to the Grand Designs episode made me think twice.  I bet you asked santa for fresh underwear!

 

oh yes, i am hoping its a worry over nothing.

 

The place has been plaster boarded and skimmed at its actually like a house inside, feels close but still a long way to go

[Andehh]

We're hoping to be boarding 2nd week January! 

 

We're still holding pressure, though I think it's dropped by 1 bar over last few days but who knows with temp fluctuations and it all still temporary bunged up. Either way, hoping we got away with it! Got fingers crossed for you. Please keep us updated 

[Andehh]

One for the OP, how'd you get on? 

 

[HughF]

I helped my neighbours pressure test prior to a pour, used air. No risk of freezing during the cold snap.

 

Made up some fittings to connect to my compressor and blew it up to 6 bar.

[markharro]

We have a similar issue - turns out a steel post bolt has nicked one of our UFH pipes and the antifreeze mix is slowly seeping out. The company responsible is accepting it is their fault and is talking about cutting into the slab (powerfloated and intended to be our final floor finish) and then somehow jointing the affected bit of pipe. Can anyone confirm what the best practise is in these circs so I can double check with them? thanks

[IanR]

35 minutes ago, markharro said:

 Can anyone confirm what the best practise is in these circs so I can double check with them? thanks

 

Can't say it's best practice, but what worked for me was cutting out the damaged pipe and inserting a new piece with some couplers.

 

 

I was sure the UFH pipes were nowhere near the shower wastes, so was confident cutting around them to make space for the trap. I guess you can't keep your eye on a couple of km of UFH pipes....

Edited October 6, 2023 by IanR