Critique of new new build design, please!

[LnP]

Hi Everybody,

 

I previously posted an earlier design for our new build project and got some very helpful comments. So helpful in fact that we couldn't fix the problems with it and decided to start again. Here's the latest and I'd love to hear your thoughts.

 

The house is just for my wife and me, but we want guest accommodation, hence only 3 bedrooms on the 1st floor. It's a "forever home" and we don't plan to develop the 2nd floor at this stage. But thinking about resale value, thought having the possibility for the extra 2 bedrooms would be a good thing to do. The dressing room could also be turned into a bedroom.

 

It's 136.5 m² on the GF, 105.5 m² on the FF and the loft is 48 m².

 

Views are to the rear (north) over a canal.

 

Many thanks

 

 

 

 

[ProDave]

Is the site layout plan north up?

 

Assuming it is, what is the the left (west) of the plot?  It is a shame not to have any west facing windows for evening sun

[LnP]

11 minutes ago, ProDave said:

It is a shame not to have any west facing windows for evening sun

You're right, thanks. We can fix that.

[ProDave]

You are essentially building a bungalow that you could one day develop the upstairs.  I would build the upstairs structurally now as if it was going to be 2 storey but do nothing with it.  I would put the stairs in leading to a small landing with a fire door into a boarded loft storage space.  You should be able to get completion like that and lower council tax banding.  If you do then develop the roof later the council tax should not go up.

[Radian]

Our house is oriented in exactly the same way:

• Our front elevation points SW but has smaller windows than yours to prevent overheating.
• However, do I wish we had some larger windows on the SE side to make more of the solar gain in the shoulder months. Unless shaded, these two elevations get the same irradiation - an obvious point that was lost on me when we designed it.
• NW is far from a write-off, in the summer at least - we have French windows in the lounge facing that direction and a bay window in the dining room and get lovely sunsets from there.
• NE is a real pick-me-up in the summer too. We start our day in the kitchen and garden room principally facing in this direction. You have your sitting and dining room with large sliding patio doors there. I'm not sure this would suit us so well. I would think about relocating the kitchen and breakfast area to here.

[AliG]

I like it in general, there are just some details points and some things may be personal taste.

 

Construction issues

 

1. The rear first floor wall will be quite awkward to build and require considerable steel. I would look to one up the top right corner of bed 3 with the kitchen wall, otherwise you are trying to bear the support for that wall above the door between the kitchen and study. Similarly the landing and bed 1 wall is not a straight line which would be easier to rest on a steel beam and will need support in the wall between the study and sitting area. 2

 

2. The skylights hard against the rear wall would maybe be difficult to weather proof and would be better further out into the roof. I'd probably lose the one in the sitting area, maybe personal preference here, but seems unnecessary. Further skylights under a north facing wall will receive little light and may be a waste of time.

 

3. That large window in the sitting dining area will be expensive and I personally don't like how it is off centre relative to the room.

 

Layout

 

1. Windows as mentioned. I would replace the roof lights with an east facing window in the dining area.

 

2. The WC is too small relative to the house and do you want your guests having to go through the utility room to get there? Also is the plan to not have a door to the utility room? I would probably move the WC to the back of the enormous pantry (personal issue here, but I doubt you'll ever need such a large pantry)

 

3. The plant room is possibly too small depending what you want in there. If you have an ASHP outside that will help.

 

4. The boot room is at the side of the house implying that this is where you plan to come into the house, but the garage and parking seem to be in front of the house. Maybe you plan to actually park at the side, but this could be annoying. Also depending on if you come in at the front or the side there could be an issue with lack of storage in the main hall. Could the garage be at the side and attached to the house?

 

5. It could be a bit dark in the middle of the kitchen without another window at the side. The sink is too far away from the table for clearing up dishes and getting glasses of water.

 

6. First floor seems good. I would consider making the dressing room smaller and putting a laundry room in part of the space. Then it might be easier to arrange the boot room space downstairs.

 

7. I'd put another velux on the second floor landing.

[ProDave]

Re the plant room too small.  I allocated a large plant room, then found there was very little "plant" to put there.  Just the MVHR and some valves and a pump.  the HW tank went elsewhere.

[Kelvin]

I like it. 
 

It’s quite big for just the two of you although I understand your point about your development schedule. 
 

Why split the boot room and utility room? I’d remove the wall and have one big room. 
 

The size of the plant room is an interesting point as we’ve had that challenge too but I think I’ve solved it. Having looked at all the stuff going in ours it does need to be a reasonable size. 

[AliG]

I too would be looking to combine the boot and utility rooms as you have to walk through the utility room to get to the boot room anyway.

[LnP]

2 hours ago, ProDave said:

You should be able to get completion like that and lower council tax banding.  If you do then develop the roof later the council tax should not go up.

Good point about council tax. I hadn't thought about that. I was also thinking about not installing the stairs to the top floor, which I think helps us regarding fire regulations. For example, I think it would mean we could delete the door between the hall and the sitting room, which would give a view right through the house from the front door.

[AliG]

A two storey house is a lot easier from a fire perspective.

 

However, you don't pay the VAT and it will be cheaper to do all of the work at once.

 

I would guess that you will be in band G or H anyway.

[LnP]

2 hours ago, Radian said:

Our house is oriented in exactly the same way:

• Our front elevation points SW but has smaller windows than yours to prevent overheating.
• However, do I wish we had some larger windows on the SE side to make more of the solar gain in the shoulder months. Unless shaded, these two elevations get the same irradiation - an obvious point that was lost on me when we designed it.
• NW is far from a write-off, in the summer at least - we have French windows in the lounge facing that direction and a bay window in the dining room and get lovely sunsets from there.
• NE is a real pick-me-up in the summer too. We start our day in the kitchen and garden room principally facing in this direction. You have your sitting and dining room with large sliding patio doors there. I'm not sure this would suit us so well. I would think about relocating the kitchen and breakfast area to here.

 

Interesting. Thanks @Radian for your comments. The orientation is just 11^o off being due north and south. It had occurred to me that we could rotate it a bit if that helps getting natural light to key places.

• Overheating - it's something I need to discuss with the architect. I wrote in the design brief that I wanted a roof overhang at the front so we could get winter sun but keep summer sun out. This design doesn't have that. I don't think the house would look right with small windows and I like big windows!
• Windows on SE side - I think we can fix that.
• NW elevation - yes, I think windows in the lounge and the study on that wall is a good idea.
• NE elevation - We've gone back and forth about where to put the kitchen. Our last house had French doors off an east facing elevation from the kitchen, and it was great to step out of the kitchen onto the patio for breakfast when the sun was out. That's why we've got those French doors on the SE elevation off the kitchen out onto a patio. Btw I think we'll move the house a couple of metres to the west to make more room for that patio. We're currently living in a house on this plot (which we plan to demolish) and the rooms on the NE elevation, which is really facing almost due north, are quite dark.

 

[LnP]

18 minutes ago, AliG said:

 

However, you don't pay the VAT and it will be cheaper to do all of the work at once.

 

Good point on the VAT, but I think it's money we'll probably never spend anyway. We're not planning to sell it unless it's to pay for social care! Our children can decide after we've popped our clogs, if they want to finish the top floor, if there would be a return on that, or sell it with the potential for the extra 2 bedrooms.

[LnP]

Thanks @AliG for your comments.

Regarding your comments on construction, I'll talk those through with the architect.

Regarding your layout comments:

1. Windows as mentioned. I would replace the roof lights with an east facing window in the dining area - I agree

2. The WC is too small .... I would probably move the WC to the back of the enormous pantry . Not a bad idea. We'll look at that.

3. The plant room is possibly too small depending what you want in there. If you have an ASHP outside that will help. The MVHR can go in the loft. Our current plan regarding heating is to future proof it for ASHP but install a gas boiler. So that means the plant room needs to take the boiler, DHW tank (sized for ASHP), manifolds and whatever gubbins the ASHP will need. How big do you think the plant room should be?

4. The boot room is at the side of the house implying that this is where you plan to come into the house, . Yes, that's right.

Could the garage be at the side and attached to the house?  We want to maintain access down the side of the house, and don't want to build right across the plot.

5. It could be a bit dark in the middle of the kitchen without another window at the side. I agree. We'll put a window on that wall.

The sink is too far away from the table for clearing up dishes and getting glasses of water. Great comment. We need to think about this.

6. ...I would consider making the dressing room smaller and putting a laundry room in part of the space. Then it might be easier to arrange the boot room space downstairs. Interesting. We have talked about a 1st floor laundry room to save carrying washing up and down stairs ... but these days if the weather is good it has to go on the washing line, which anyway means a walk downstairs. But the utility/boot/WC/plant room space is a crowded so your suggestion would help there.

7. I'd put another velux on the second floor landing. I agree

[ETC]

Looks a bit 80’s to me. Sorry.

[ETC]

Also - you’re going to need quite a bit of steel to support the first floor walls at the back of the house and very few of the GF walls line up with the FF walls.

 

You might want to simplify the structural steelwork and try and get more walls on the GF and the FF to line up. Will more than likely be cheaper to build.

[Kelvin]

The above is a good point. We’re building a modified kit house and it’s designed to minimise the need for a lot of steel supporting the structure 

[ash_scotland88]

I like it, typical traditional appearance to the front, more contemporary to the rear.

The only thing I would want to change, for me and after all it's a house not for me, would be access to study/music not off the main living area for noise.

If it's an office it would be distracting if the wife has the girls over for a drunken Tuesday brunch. Or if you're trying to teach yourself three blind mice on the piano come an evening and the wife just wants to sit curled up with a book.

You could combine plant, boot and utility to allow a small hallway here with a door in to the space here. It then becomes a totally private space and if really needed an other bedroom.

[Indy]

Personally:

 

1. I'd move the pantry and combine the utility, boot room and pantry into one large space. The current pantry seems to block the flow and makes your large open plan area look smaller.

2. Swap the position of the kitchen and dining so that the kitchen is at the back and looking out over the gardens

[LnP]

15 hours ago, AliG said:

 

The rear first floor wall will be quite awkward to build and require considerable steel. I would look to one up the top right corner of bed 3 with the kitchen wall, otherwise you are trying to bear the support for that wall above the door between the kitchen and study. Similarly the landing and bed 1 wall is not a straight line which would be easier to rest on a steel beam and will need support in the wall between the study and sitting area. 2

 

 

Hi @AliG, just making sure I understand this comment. Regarding the landing and bedroom 1, I think you're saying that the north wall of the landing (north is up) needs to line up with the north wall of bedroom 1 so the whole of that first floor wall can be supported on a steel which runs as shown as the dashed blue line on the GF plan below. Is that right? I've shown the new position of the landing wall in red on the FF plan.

 

Regarding your point about the FF north wall of bedroom 3, I see what you mean about how will that be supported. I think your suggestion is to extend bedroom 3 so that its north wall is directly over the study wall. I suppose we could also move the study door and have a steel as shown on the plan below?

 

Thanks

 

 

[AliG]

Basically yes.

 

As designed at the moment, the bed 3 wall  support would need to join to another pieces of steel across the door. Much easier if it hits the corner and rests on a steel post there.

 

Looking at it again though there may be an issue in that you will require a steel beam across the back of the house for the windows resting on the same post. I suspect that it is fine for them to meet at the same point, but I am not a structural engineer. You may also require steel for the east wall of bedroom 3 to sit on. All of this suggests to me that the wall between the study and sitting area should be a supporting wall of some description, as thick as the outside wall above it.

 

You will require an 8m long beam to support the rear of bedroom 1 etc above the kitchen. This creates two issues. The wall between the study and kitchen will need to be robust to hold this. Either a solid wall or a steel post will be required and the post will be large considering the size of the beam. You will also have an issue in that you will need to lose a large steel beam in the ceiling of the kitchen (otherwise it will stick down into the room). As well as the issue of putting the beam in the ceiling, it creates issues with routing services. The kink in the wall currently for the window on the landing would only further complicate things, it might be that the small area of window is small enough it does not require steel support, I'd be more worried about the return in the outside wall to the window.but again I am not a SE.

 

Architects persistently design houses like this and just leave the steel as an issue for the SE and builder to sort out later. Much better to design it as simple as possible to begin with.

 

As to other comments I agree that the pantry causes a lot of issues, jutting out in the middle of the house. All the food in our house fits in the fridge, freezer and two kitchen cupboards.

[ETC]

The steelwork won’t be a problem and can easily support the first floor walls. 

 

Lol at “Architects persistently design houses like this and just leave the steel as an issue for the SE and builder to sort out later. Much better to design it as simple as possible to begin with.”

 

No we don’t. FYI I really doubt an architect designed this house.

[ETC]

My GF proposal. 
 

FF and elevations to follow.

[ETC]

[Mr Punter]

The balcony may cause issues.  It is fairly large so will need to be a proper warm roof, with insulation and firrings on top of the structure, plus the deck. This can make it up to 300mm higher than the first floor level.  You will then need 150mm between the flat roof covering and the DPC for the cavity tray.  Doors and full height windows onto the balcony will need to be raised and you may require a couple of steps.  You also need to consider drainage as there seems to be a parapet all round.  I like to see downpipes shown on elevations as it shows that the designer has thought about it.

 

Also, will the rooflights effectively be walk-on glazing?