Barney12 Posted July 2, 2017 Posted July 2, 2017 (edited) I'm still undecided as to whether I'm going to tackle the tiling of the roof so had a guy out last week to take a look. As mentioned in another thread recently the standard method of roof assessment seems to be; "stand with your legs slightly apart, lean back, look up and then most importantly suck through your teeth" With this guy his next comment was almost instant "Oh, 600 centres, that's not good, I always prefer 400". To which I of course in an interested tone said "why is that then". His reply "Far too much nail bounce on 600 centres. Makes the job difficult and slower on a nailed roof". Is is he right? I understand his point as there is a little flex in the battens towards the centres and copper nails don't like being hit too hard! I haven't had his quote yet. Edited July 2, 2017 by Barney12
bassanclan Posted July 2, 2017 Posted July 2, 2017 It is more of a pain with 600 centres, rather than say 400 centres, but the savings on 50% less trusses should more than make up for the extra time.
ProDave Posted July 2, 2017 Posted July 2, 2017 I found the technique to combat nail bounce was change the way you swing the hammer. Instead of the normal "hit and withdraw" try for "hit and hold". It deadens the bounce and helps drive the nails in. The only real problems was when there was a knot just where you wanted to drive the nail in. I then went to plan B and fitted those few with a screw instead of a nail. 2
Jeremy Harris Posted July 2, 2017 Posted July 2, 2017 (edited) Yes, it is an issue, and one our roofers commented on. Our main roof was counter battened at 400 centres, then battened (both with 25 x 50 battens), and was no problem, but the garage roof was at 600 centres. However, when the roofers took a close look they realised that nail bounce wasn't going to be a problem with it as MBC had fitted 50 x 50 battens on the garage roof, and they were stiff enough to stop any bounce. Made the roofers happy bunnies! Edited July 2, 2017 by JSHarris
Nickfromwales Posted July 2, 2017 Posted July 2, 2017 This is more of a problem with slates rather than with tiles surely?
Barney12 Posted July 2, 2017 Author Posted July 2, 2017 Just now, Nickfromwales said: This is more of a problem with slates rather than with tiles surely? Sorry its 5mm slates! I keep saying tiles!!
Barney12 Posted July 2, 2017 Author Posted July 2, 2017 He did say that they could "slide" another batten down between the 600 centres and screw it on. Apparently that reduces the bounce. Would that impact the ventilation or membrane at all though?
Nickfromwales Posted July 2, 2017 Posted July 2, 2017 19 minutes ago, Barney12 said: He did say that they could "slide" another batten down between the 600 centres and screw it on. Apparently that reduces the bounce. Would that impact the ventilation or membrane at all though? Not if it's only a 100mm long packer . Sounds like a good idea TBH.
Barney12 Posted July 2, 2017 Author Posted July 2, 2017 9 minutes ago, Nickfromwales said: Not if it's only a 100mm long packer . Sounds like a good idea TBH. Sorry not sure what you mean by that? He was on about sliding a full 25x50 batten between the 600 centres and screwing it on.
PeterW Posted July 2, 2017 Posted July 2, 2017 Can't see how that will help as the centre will still bounce as much as the thickened area will only be 50x50. It may also create valleys in the membrane but they will be filled by the batten. Isn't your roof counterbattened ..? 1
Barney12 Posted July 2, 2017 Author Posted July 2, 2017 (edited) 8 minutes ago, PeterW said: Can't see how that will help as the centre will still bounce as much as the thickened area will only be 50x50. It may also create valleys in the membrane but they will be filled by the batten. Isn't your roof counterbattened ..? Yes. 25x50 vertical batten on each rafter and then 25x50 horizontal spaced for the slates. Edit.It would provide rigidity as you would be tieing the horizontals to the new middle vertical. Effectively creating a trellis. Edited July 2, 2017 by Barney12
PeterW Posted July 2, 2017 Posted July 2, 2017 So it would provide rigidity but not from the impact of a hammer - you would only have 50mm depth whereas your rafters are 150-200mm depth. Have they battened already and could you go to a 50x38mm perhaps ..?
Nickfromwales Posted July 2, 2017 Posted July 2, 2017 18 minutes ago, Barney12 said: Sorry not sure what you mean by that? He was on about sliding a full 25x50 batten between the 600 centres and screwing it on. Oh, I see, the trusses are also at 600 centre? Thought for a daft mo that they were bridging them with off cuts to catch 400 centered trusses rather than full pieces spanning the 600. . I'll make another coffee. ? 15 minutes ago, PeterW said: Can't see how that will help as the centre will still bounce as much as the thickened area will only be 50x50. What he said
ToughButterCup Posted July 2, 2017 Posted July 2, 2017 21 minutes ago, Onoff said: Would a "weight forward" hammer help? A what? Is there a Weight Backward version? OK, googlied it.... What difference does a weight forward make?
Nickfromwales Posted July 2, 2017 Posted July 2, 2017 4 minutes ago, recoveringacademic said: A what? Is there a Weight Backward version? OK, googlied it.... What difference does a weight forward make? Drumroll please ? Hammers a hammer ain't it? ?
ToughButterCup Posted July 2, 2017 Posted July 2, 2017 So, there's no point to a weight forward hammer.........? Shame. I won't need to buy one
Jeremy Harris Posted July 2, 2017 Posted July 2, 2017 I've got a dead blow hammer. Doesn't bounce, and gives a much heftier blow. No good for banging in nails, as it has a soft face, but a lot more effective than an ordinary soft face mallet.
Construction Channel Posted July 2, 2017 Posted July 2, 2017 3 minutes ago, recoveringacademic said: So, there's no point to a weight forward hammer.........? Shame. I won't need to buy one the only hammer you will ever need to buy is a 20oz straight clawed estwing, preferably with a leather bound handle. It will cost enough for you to never lose it, and are widely regarded as the best all round hammer you can buy. weight forward hammer............load of rubbish... "mutter" mutter"mutter" also you can get shot filled metal faced hammers, usually sold as metalwork hammers https://www.amazon.co.uk/d/Hammers-Mallets/Armstrong-ARM68-516-Cast-Dead-Hammer/B000I1ROCS/ref=sr_1_1?s=diy&ie=UTF8&qid=1498989654&sr=1-1&keywords=dead+blow+pein+hammer
Ferdinand Posted July 2, 2017 Posted July 2, 2017 Seriously. I log in on a Sunday morning, and it is all suddenly in Chinese. I have a rubber mallet, and it is very good for ice.
Barney12 Posted July 2, 2017 Author Posted July 2, 2017 43 minutes ago, PeterW said: So it would provide rigidity but not from the impact of a hammer - you would only have 50mm depth whereas your rafters are 150-200mm depth. Have they battened already and could you go to a 50x38mm perhaps ..? Yes MBC have arelady battened.
bassanclan Posted July 2, 2017 Posted July 2, 2017 Have you considered using imitation slate or does it have to be the real thing?
Stones Posted July 2, 2017 Posted July 2, 2017 Is this issue one of the downsides of not using sarking boards that you can nail directly into? When slating a roof in Scotland, slates are nailed straight onto sarking boards - our last house had 22mm whitewood boards.
Onoff Posted July 2, 2017 Posted July 2, 2017 (edited) 6 hours ago, recoveringacademic said: A what? Is there a Weight Backward version? OK, googlied it.... What difference does a weight forward make? This is mine, made by Roebuck. I was in the wholesalers years back and saw it. I've known the owner for like 30 years. They were the "in thing" at the time. He said "Take one (FOC) and try it!" Does seem to make me hit nails more accurately.....but tbh can't remember the last time I used a nail! Last used this to drift the bolt out of a lower ball joint! Edited July 2, 2017 by Onoff
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