BCO 'signing off' my build: Q's.

[TonyT]

What’s the humidity like in the house?

amazon sell cheap units for about a fiver that will help gather data

[Radian]

Borderline amounts of airflow may be all that keeps condensation forming on your walls. Therefore where things cover the wall (e.g. hats) there's a build-up of moisture that the mould is thriving on. Additional vapor from your breath on the wall you sit at might also tip the balance. If it is such a fine balance it might be solvable with a small amount of additional ventilation.

 

As for eliminating the mould, bleach solutions might not be enough. A 3% hydrogen peroxide solution (the standard percentage sold in pharmacies) would be my starting point. Stronger can be bought online if 3% doesn't clear it.

 

Edit: just read you ventilate the place by opening windows - but to what? Must be a rainforest out there.

Edited September 25, 2022 by Radian

[ProDave]

You bought an old stone cottage that will have no damp proof course and was built to standards of the era.  I could have told you it would likely be a cold and damp building to live in.  Unless you hermetically sealed the extension from the rest of the house then the damp air will circulate.

 

I very much doubt it is your location.  Put a modern house like the ones many on here have built in that location and I bet you would not have any problem.

 

[Adsibob]

I would seriously consider selling up and buying something newer that isn’t going to affect your health. I’m not sure I buy the “it’s the local microclimate” thing, because a good house should be built to deal with it’s climate. If you had a fully airtight and water tight well insulated new build with MVHR you just wouldn’t have mould anywhere, whatever the local climate.

[Onoff]

On 24/09/2022 at 21:56, zoothorn said:

Not here. It's something inherrant to us all here, we all moan about it.

 

If there's something strange
in your neighborhood or if there's something weird and it don't look good, who you gonna call?

 

Maybe it's ectoplasm? 

 

 

[joe90]

I once looked at buying an old stone cottage in a “dank” valley, very little sunshine etc and knew it would be damp and cold so never bought it. 

[Onoff]

2 minutes ago, joe90 said:

I once looked at buying an old stone cottage in a “dank” valley, very little sunshine etc and knew it would be damp and cold so never bought it. 

 

Unfortunately I did buy it...

[Gone West]

It is possible to have an old stone cottage that isn't cold and damp. I pumped a lot of heat into our place initially, because it had been empty for a year. Eventually the humidity decreased but it took a long time to dry out. I think it was @SteamyTea who explained how much moisture can be held in the plasterwork etc and therefore how much energy is required to dry it out. I think a lot of people who live in areas like @zoothorn think it's just the way it is and have always lived in cold houses which are therefore damp.

[markc]

I bought an old house that had been empty for a year, thick solid walls and cellar etc. probably took around 18 months of over heating it to dry it out properly.

now my heating bills are pretty low considering it’s an ex railway property.

[joe90]

I think position and amount of solar gain makes a huge difference, Wales is wet by nature. The cottage I referred  to above was in a deep valley so very little solar gain or wind drying effect. It’s a shame @zoothorn heating was a fiasco in the first place.

[SteamyTea]

5 minutes ago, Gone West said:

It is possible to have an old stone cottage that isn't cold and damp.

Yes, just costs a lot to get it dry again.

 

There is, at a fundamental level, no difference between a new brick and an old brick, or a new stone and an old stone, or concrete.  Really just where they are placed and what the environment around them is.

 

Here is what the environment is like around my house.

Gets close to saturation i.e. RH=1, but not quite (basically means very few foggy days this year)  Got to within 0.5°C.

This basically means that there is, in an unoccupied building, little risk of condensation.  Increase the internal temperature and there is no risk.

But add some people and cook, bathing, clothes drying, then there is, so ventilation is needed.

[Onoff]

Perimeter drainage and how the ground slopes (or not) away from the house helps I'm sure. We had a concrete path laid tight to the North facing wall above the DPC on one of the "modern" extension sections of the house (circa 1950 😂). Damp had come through the cavity wall. Not helped by the rubble filled cavity! When I removed the path it all dried out fine.

[zoothorn]

On 25/09/2022 at 08:39, joe90 said:

Plus @zoothornif this is a local damp atmosphere thing like you say then that is not a building regulation fail!!

Well surely it must be, if he finds rotting & moisture affected reveals though?

 

The difference with this BCO visit, is the timelag of 18 months since the build which I'd hazzard a guess at being far longer than normal to get a "sign off". Entirely my fault, I should've pulled my finger out & built balcony in early spring, if not last year. 

 

If I can cover these areas, then that's fine. And if the BCO won't care me using agricultural spindles, non-galv screws & some nails too.. then that's fine too. 

[PeterW]

3 minutes ago, zoothorn said:

Well surely it must be, if he finds rotting & moisture affected reveals though?

 Seriously … get the Zinniser mould paint, paint the reveals and invite him

over for tea and hobnobs… 

 

do you have the electricians sign off cert for the power install etc ..?

[zoothorn]

On 25/09/2022 at 20:15, Onoff said:

SWMBO here says she has to regularly wipe clean the insides of some window frames to remove mould. Especially bad around the old Everest patio door, aluminium frame, double glazed etc. The edges of the frame almost certainly wouldn't have been foamed etc. Likely great cold bridges.

Yes, but as you say your doors as you guess.. wouldn't have been foamed well, or at all. 
 

The difference is twofold here. 1) I & my builder --did-- build this correctly, with your own (& others) keen eyes & great help. 2) you don't live in  a similar environment, at all. 

[zoothorn]

23 hours ago, TonyT said:

What’s the humidity like in the house?

amazon sell cheap units for about a fiver that will help gather data

Tony, this is a total red herring.

 

I have cheap units, someone kindly sent me them. They shoe a " normal" humidity figure.

 

So something else is at play here for the descriptions I've outlined, the physical evidence I've described in photos & describing the strangely ott damp conditions of the local area, the physical pain my lungs were in for months.

 

So, readings of a % the figure are totally inadequate, useless. Why? Because it results in a collection of people desperate to disagree with me. With what I report. With what I say it's like living here. "Old stone cottages.. blah blah". It has bugger all to do with 'old stone cottages'!! It's a LOCAL facet. It is equally abundant here, as it is in the modern bungalow opposite (I had friends living there, I frequented it/ the same symptoms- of course the same symptoms if it's a LOCAL facet). And, similar too in my even more modern brand new extention. Actually this most modern build of all three eg's......... is by far...... the worst!! 
 

Please. Forget this red herring of old stone cottages, or humidity readings. Its a LOCAL facet. I've shown examples of the unusually bad mould on newly built areas, in extentions, not corners of my old part of the house which is totally, completely separate in terms of the odd 'usual' bit of "old cottage damp" I'm not not not ----whatsoever---- talking about.

 

Local environment. You cannot do anything about it!! Nothing. Apart from de-seed the clouds that is, &/ or flatten both steep hillsides here & remove the fir forests ( & reverse the westerly sea breeze bringing in moisture from sea 6m away); these these these are, can only be, the likely reason for this weird local facet 'thing'. It's just a combination of factors colliding, in an area, like a perfect moisture storm. I simply wouldn't have been in pain, in my lungs, for months, if it wasn't for such a 'thing' being real. Absolutely zilch all to do with 'old stone cottages'!

Edited September 26, 2022 by zoothorn

[zoothorn]

25 minutes ago, PeterW said:

 Seriously … get the Zinniser mould paint, paint the reveals and invite him

over for tea and hobnobs… 

 

do you have the electricians sign off cert for the power install etc ..?

Hi Peter. Yes will do, the zinsser stuff seems very effective.  I did get the electrician sign off, or give me something was it? Damn gotta find whatever it was then.
 

I have fingers x'd he won't be finicky & measure the loft fluff.. I still have another 3rd layer to go in new bedroom loft: just too much to bear doing this extra layer, an almost impossible prospect with the constraints in room up there. So I've plumped it up a bit.

 

Or hope he doesn't see my few non-galv nails, & all my screws that aren't weatherproof (thought they were at the time).

[Onoff]

37 minutes ago, zoothorn said:

2) you don't live in  a similar environment, at all. 

 

Erm yes I do. Lowest house in the valley pretty much. The road next to me is a seasonal water course. Watercress grows along the roadside. Steep valley walls meaning at certain times of the year we get hardly any sun and a frost pit in winter. The NW, NE facing and shallow SE roofs are covered in thick green moss.

 

 

I know all about damp and that it is not in any way insurmountable. Just needs good design, all which can be found on here. It's the time and money element I struggle with!

[zoothorn]

37 minutes ago, Onoff said:

 

Erm yes I do. Lowest house in the valley pretty much. The road next to me is a seasonal water course. Watercress grows along the roadside. Steep valley walls meaning at certain times of the year we get hardly any sun and a frost pit in winter. The NW, NE facing and shallow SE roofs are covered in thick green moss.

 

 

I know all about damp and that it is not in any way insurmountable. Just needs good design, all which can be found on here. It's the time and money element I struggle with!

Arghh.......!

 

I give up. It's impossible to explain, impossible anyone can understand unless they come to this village (& next vllg over hill: friends moan about it too, as we all do, all modern house theirs).

 

Im actually getting incredibly frustrated, my points on this LOCALLY-specific (not house-specific!!) hugely pervasive moisture aspect are totally lost.

 

Best I leave it- not doing myself any good or any favours. Thanks for replies on the BCO visit, I'll briefly dip back in for an update after he's here. 
 

Zoot

[Onoff]

53 minutes ago, zoothorn said:

Arghh.......!

 

I give up.

 

My sentiments exactly. 

[Gone West]

9 hours ago, Onoff said:

 

My sentiments exactly. 

Yes it's weird to think that my old PassivHaus would no longer function as a PH just because I built it in a different place.

[joe90]

5 minutes ago, Gone West said:

Yes it's weird to think that my old PassivHaus would no longer function as a PH just because I built it in a different place.

However, if I may, his original build is not passive, no cavity no wall insulation, perhaps no DPC and years of damp build up within the old stone. I am sure with lots of heat and ventilation the damp could be removed but it won’t be quick.

[Gone West]

 

7 hours ago, joe90 said:

However, if I may, his original build is not passive, no cavity no wall insulation, perhaps no DPC and years of damp build up within the old stone. I am sure with lots of heat and ventilation the damp could be removed but it won’t be quick.

The point is that Zoot seems to think that any house in his area will always be cold and damp. He said "LOCALLY-specific (not house-specific!!)", whereas I think a PH will function as a PH in his area.

[Radian]

Hopefully zoot has stopped reading this now to preserve his blood pressure but I'm afraid it would be a case of "magical thinking" to contend that no matter what type of house construction is subject to these conditions, they will all suffer the same fate. While it may seem this way, it can be shown to be physically impossible by considering extremes: For instance if we build a habitat on Mars it would have to behave exactly the same on Mars as it would when transplanted to zoot's location.

 

From there we can gradually widen the constraints and uncover the failings in construction and operation that lead to an exchange of indoor and outdoor environments. Of course it might take a considerable budget to achieve it. More than is commonly deployed for domestic dwellings.

[Onoff]

Presumably then neither vacuum flasks or refrigerators work in Fern Gulley as the whole area defies the laws of physics.