BCO 'signing off' my build: Q's.

[zoothorn]

Hi chaps over here,

 

I'm about to call up my BCO for the final check of my 1 up/1 down extention build, now I've at last pulled my finger out & built the balcony/ last stage. I have some minor "defects" I need advice on 1st though.

 

[Build recap: Builder work complete march 2020 (all external aspects). Then 2020 I built all inside work, completing & "moving in" as it were end of 2020].

 

Since moving in to the upstairs bedroom 18 months ago, I've watched an alarming ammount of mould grow ( my main concern). Below in workshop all fine on this front.

 

I wonder is this a BCO 'failure' per se? Also some very minor concerns I'll elaborate on afterwards. These areas/ patches in the bedroom are my main concern though.

 

Thanks, Zoot.

 

Worst mould around french doors cill area:

 

 

 

 

[zoothorn]

Next up is a similar thing around the nearby window cill (pic 1),

 

& (cold bridging black mould patch?) in adjacent corner where build meets the old wall (pic2)..

 

 

[zoothorn]

Lastly my least concerns inside; one workshop led spotlight ( I bought, then electrician installed) slightly drooping..

 

& some minor untidyness at juncture of wall to sloped ceiling area, in upstairs bedroom.

 

 

 

[zoothorn]

And really my final concern I think: on the balcony job I've used goldscrews ( I just read y'day aren't weatherproof)  generally on my top section of my balcony. IE the whole handrail/ top posts/ spindles section. All seems strong, & not gonna fail anytime soon.. but will the BCO pick up on the type of screws used is my point-?
 

I can next spring swap out for stainless. So these golscrews just to do for now as it were.

 

Thanks, zoot

[Adsibob]

So on the mould, I think whether or not BCO sign off is the last of your concerns. You need to fix that! I presume you don't have MVHR, as otherwise you wouldn't have mould. I presume also that those windows don't have trickle vents, is that right? You need to drastically improve the ventilation and if possible upgrade your insulation to fix this issue. Walls are cold, condensation from inside converts into moisture as it hits the walls, this creates a slightly damp area where mould thrives.

 

On the screws, I doubt the BCO will pick that up, but if you want a sturdy and rust free balcony in 10 years' time, why not replace the screws now?

 

On the spotlight, as long as it was installed with a fireshield, the fact that it's sagging shouldn't matter to your BCO. he might want to see the evidence of the fire shield though.

 

 

[zoothorn]

3 hours ago, Adsibob said:

So on the mould, I think whether or not BCO sign off is the last of your concerns. You need to fix that! I presume you don't have MVHR, as otherwise you wouldn't have mould. I presume also that those windows don't have trickle vents, is that right? You need to drastically improve the ventilation and if possible upgrade your insulation to fix this issue. Walls are cold, condensation from inside converts into moisture as it hits the walls, this creates a slightly damp area where mould thrives.

 

On the screws, I doubt the BCO will pick that up, but if you want a sturdy and rust free balcony in 10 years' time, why not replace the screws now?

 

On the spotlight, as long as it was installed with a fireshield, the fact that it's sagging shouldn't matter to your BCO. he might want to see the evidence of the fire shield though.

 

 

Hi bob, forgive me if I don't focus on how to eliminate the mould for this thread.. it's whether or not these concerns I have are "mot failures" as it were (IE my mot being my BCO coming here with clipboard).

 

I think I might be aiming my Q's at those knowing what a BCO will pick up on/ or what he might not be concerned about. I have no idea what this visit involves really, & so no idea what if anything I should prepare for.

 

I haven't yet heard of a "fireshield" during the build process.. a new one on me this is. Yes as said I will replace the screws in due course ( when I have time), but I know it's sturdy for the time being so it's just IF it can "pass the mot" as is. That's all I need to know, for this thread.

 

Thanks, zh

[joe90]

Just tell the BCO that the building is still drying out and as it’s a stone building will take some time. My neighbour had similar as (IMO) he moved in too quickly after building, after a few months and re decorating it was all fine.

[TonyT]

I can’t see the BCO having any issue with any of these defects.

 

the downlight may go further if you push the fitting and give it a clockwise turn at the same time?

maybe the springs behind the downlight need bend a little to push onto the plasterboard a bit more..

[zoothorn]

14 hours ago, joe90 said:

Just tell the BCO that the building is still drying out and as it’s a stone building will take some time. My neighbour had similar as (IMO) he moved in too quickly after building, after a few months and re decorating it was all fine.

Hi J, that gives me confidence. He knows the build/ property, having popped in a few times during the build.. so he knows it's a stone shell with extentions (4 now inc porch) added to it.

 

As to redecorating; I had thought of this, & with great results using Zinsser Bin stuff, last week I covered some seriously yellow lower walls in the porch either side of front door, the porch I renovated only last year, & so far.. no yellow damp showing through. Yet.

 

So should I just do the same on the plasterboard reveal/ cill areas I wonder. This would cover it (then redo the silicone blackened beads here, maybe not the correct thing I used).. but am I not covering over damaged plasterboard?

This is my main concern, above the BCO decision tbh; has the damp collecting near the cills here left me needing to replace all the reveals plasterboard-? In only 18 months this "damage" has been caused. 
 

Thanks, zh

[zoothorn]

14 hours ago, TonyT said:

I can’t see the BCO having any issue with any of these defects.

 

the downlight may go further if you push the fitting and give it a clockwise turn at the same time?

maybe the springs behind the downlight need bend a little to push onto the plasterboard a bit more..

Hi TT, good that's positive.. yes good idea I could try re-tentioning the springs. Or maybe just pin in up with a dab of fireproof silicone if still slumps, just for his visit/ doesn't bother me tbh, it's a workshop etc.

[ProDave]

BCO's can be very "individual"  One of the things they were not happy about was my stove, "it's too close to the wall"  but they did not tell me this on their visit, only afterwards when I got the "refusal to issue completion certificate" by email.  I had to email to them the stove installation manual and tell them which page to look on to find the minimum "distance to combustible materials" and then send a photograph of the stove with a tape measure showing the distance was about 1.5 times the minimum.  Why he could not just have discussed that with me, I could have shown him the manual and cleared it up in minutes during his visit.

[joe90]

1 minute ago, ProDave said:

BCO's can be very "individual" 

Read that as “inconsistent”, Jeremy had the same problem, found fault with every little issue (which Jeremy usually won), mine was brilliant, just nodded and said “you obviously know what your doing” 😎 (I wish).

[TonyT]

49 minutes ago, ProDave said:

BCO's can be very "individual"  One of the things they were not happy about was my stove, "it's too close to the wall"  but they did not tell me this on their visit, only afterwards when I got the "refusal to issue completion certificate" by email.  I had to email to them the stove installation manual and tell them which page to look on to find the minimum "distance to combustible materials" and then send a photograph of the stove with a tape measure showing the distance was about 1.5 times the minimum.  Why he could not just have discussed that with me, I could have shown him the manual and cleared it up in minutes during his visit.

Got to justify the job, life would be too easy I’d we discussed things face to face and came to a conclusion.

[ETC]

2 hours ago, ProDave said:

BCO's can be very "individual"  One of the things they were not happy about was my stove, "it's too close to the wall"  but they did not tell me this on their visit, only afterwards when I got the "refusal to issue completion certificate" by email.  I had to email to them the stove installation manual and tell them which page to look on to find the minimum "distance to combustible materials" and then send a photograph of the stove with a tape measure showing the distance was about 1.5 times the minimum.  Why he could not just have discussed that with me, I could have shown him the manual and cleared it up in minutes during his visit.

A bit of a pain all right - and you are correct it could have been cleared up then and there. But I think your BCO may have realised once he/she was back in the office that the distances were perhaps borderline and needed you to confirm the installation instructions. Don’t forget hat the distances shown in the Guidance Documents are guidance and we would always go with the installation instructions over the guidance.

[ETC]

19 hours ago, TonyT said:

I can’t see the BCO having any issue with any of these defects.

 

the downlight may go further if you push the fitting and give it a clockwise turn at the same time?

maybe the springs behind the downlight need bend a little to push onto the plasterboard a bit more..

I would - I’d be asking about the mould and as other posters have alluded to - I’d be looking for ventilation. And I’d be looking at the location of DPCs.

[saveasteading]

2 hours ago, TonyT said:

Got to justify the job

I think most try to be fair, and they cannot be expert in everything so I will give the benefit of the doubt at first. 

One BC told me of deliberate cheating by a contractor ('The reinforcement is on its way'). He went back and the suspended slab had no steel in the just-poured concrete.

He said this sort of thing was common and worst with big contractors with multiple subbies. 

The other big issue is straight ignorance by diy-ers and small builders.

They expect to see issues, but if they are not expert on a subject they need the proof.

 

On the other hand.... some in my experience (always local authority) have been arrogant along with their ignorance. It can be very difficult to get them to back down (But they do).

I put this down to the contractor normally doing whatever the bco instructs, blaming the designer, and charging the client.  So the bco sees themselves as a bit special.

Some of my examples may emerge on BH over time.

[Adsibob]

23 hours ago, zoothorn said:

I haven't yet heard of a "fireshield" during the build process.. a new one on me this is

installation of a recessed downlight requires a hole to be cut in the ceiling, which may compromise the ceiling's fire integrity and significantly decrease the time it takes for a fire to spread. In line with Part B building regulations, downlights should therefore have the ability to maintain the fire rating of the ceiling to 30, 60 or 90 minutes.

 

 If your spotlight is not fire rated (most aren’t) you fit a fire hood over it, like this:

 

https://www.nationallighting.co.uk/heatguard-small-round-fire-hood-60min-fibreglass?vat=1&gclid=Cj0KCQjw1bqZBhDXARIsANTjCPIFPJdmBU9DuAGEAaN5PoEMHPRsnMWi7APzPrCNo9YMbPHG6Umz3m4aAtZWEALw_wcB

Edited September 24, 2022 by Adsibob

[saveasteading]

2 minutes ago, Adsibob said:

may compromise the ceiling's fire integrity

With most lights being LED now, the heat is vastly reduced and we don't have hot heat sinks in the ceiling space.

 

The remaining risk is in there being anything highly flammable near the lights.  Rockwool isn't, and timber isn't likely to burst into flames. Paper very close though just might. Everything on its merits: don't take risks but neither waste money when not necessary.

But if the BCO requires a fire consultant report, then a few hoods would be pragmatic. They should not be expensive, but some are for no good reason.

Ahhh just done a search. My favourite fire protection company charges £2 each.. Envirograf. 

[zoothorn]

5 hours ago, ETC said:

I would - I’d be asking about the mould and as other posters have alluded to - I’d be looking for ventilation. And I’d be looking at the location of DPCs.

Well this concludes it for me then.. I gotta redo before booking him in if there's the slightest chance he'll "fail me" on these (mould) areas. And I'm not redoing the reveals plasterboard work after ( & each) 18 months. So it's a cover job- my only choice.

 

The build ETC, done all tickety-boo photos proove the dpc/ block/ timberframe/ & then via (ace) help from folks on here ( who collectively wouldn't have me miss a trick in order to conform to B.Regs).. I built all the inside work, bar electrics.

 

The BCO will likely know the area is -incredibly & unusually- damp & wouldn't be surprised I think to find this on a modern building here (although I definitely am at only 18months new). But a new build? Maybe he will be surprised. But it aint something my builder or I am responsible for.

 

It's not due to any sub-standard aspect of the build work this mould is my point; it's simply the environment (eg the french doors: saturated in condensation AM daily September to spring: so much it takes till lunchtime to clear). Even when Im away, the door panes (& less so the frames) are saturated. So I'm not surprised at the cill area mould if it can only drip downwards. It's just I cannot understand, using modern materials, all built correctly, the doors new upvc's conforming to regs, every box along the way ticked etc etc etc... I get this infuriating saturated glass I can do nothing about. The window adjacent too, but less so; the difference between window cill & doors cill water is clearly/ obviously consistant with the glass area. 
 

Put this build in warwickshire, my last place, & the doors & window would be clear as you'd expect. If you had this properly built just as I have, wherever (else) in the UK you are, & built the inside correctly just as I have... you just wouldn't have this issue/ you wouldn't expect to have this issue.

 

Thanks, Zoothorn.

Edited September 24, 2022 by zoothorn

[zoothorn]

17 minutes ago, saveasteading said:

With most lights being LED now, the heat is vastly reduced and we don't have hot heat sinks in the ceiling space.

 

The remaining risk is in there being anything highly flammable near the lights.  Rockwool isn't, and timber isn't likely to burst into flames. Paper very close though just might. Everything on its merits: don't take risks but neither waste money when not necessary.

But if the BCO requires a fire consultant report, then a few hoods would be pragmatic. They should not be expensive, but some are for no good reason.

Ahhh just done a search. My favourite fire protection company charges £2 each.. Envirograf. 

 

Hi SS. I'm quite sure the chaps on here who kindly & patiently helped me through installing the ceiling, insulation, & led spots, would've told me if I had needed hoods (PeterW for eg with his BCO credentials on board). So it's really just the slight slump causing -the gap- I'm concerned with tbh.

 

Thanks, zh

[zoothorn]

I wonder if @PeterW could have a look at my pics & cast an opinion.

 

Grateful if so, zoot.

[Adsibob]

1 hour ago, saveasteading said:

With most lights being LED now, the heat is vastly reduced and we don't have hot heat sinks in the ceiling space.

 

The remaining risk is in there being anything highly flammable near the lights.  Rockwool isn't, and timber isn't likely to burst into flames. Paper very close though just might. Everything on its merits: don't take risks but neither waste money when not necessary.

But if the BCO requires a fire consultant report, then a few hoods would be pragmatic. They should not be expensive, but some are for no good reason.

Ahhh just done a search. My favourite fire protection company charges £2 each.. Envirograf. 

All my bulbs are low wattage LEDs but my electrician refused to fit downlights without hoods.

[MJNewton]

1 hour ago, saveasteading said:

The remaining risk is in there being anything highly flammable near the lights.

You’ve missed out the issue of having gaps in the ceiling and the corresponding risk that it presents a passage for fire. That’s what fire rated fittings are for - they seal the opening whether at the back or the front.

[TonyT]

Put the light on, the dazzle will prevent them seeing the gap!!

 

[ETC]

2 hours ago, zoothorn said:

Well this concludes it for me then.. I gotta redo before booking him in if there's the slightest chance he'll "fail me" on these (mould) areas. And I'm not redoing the reveals plasterboard work after ( & each) 18 months. So it's a cover job- my only choice.

 

The build ETC, done all tickety-boo photos proove the dpc/ block/ timberframe/ & then via (ace) help from folks on here ( who collectively wouldn't have me miss a trick in order to conform to B.Regs).. I built all the inside work, bar electrics.

 

The BCO will likely know the area is -incredibly & unusually- damp & wouldn't be surprised I think to find this on a modern building here (although I definitely am at only 18months new). But a new build? Maybe he will be surprised. But it aint something my builder or I am responsible for.

 

It's not due to any sub-standard aspect of the build work this mould is my point; it's simply the environment (eg the french doors: saturated in condensation AM daily September to spring: so much it takes till lunchtime to clear). Even when Im away, the door panes (& less so the frames) are saturated. So I'm not surprised at the cill area mould if it can only drip downwards. It's just I cannot understand, using modern materials, all built correctly, the doors new upvc's conforming to regs, every box along the way ticked etc etc etc... I get this infuriating saturated glass I can do nothing about. The window adjacent too, but less so; the difference between window cill & doors cill water is clearly/ obviously consistant with the glass area. 
 

Put this build in warwickshire, my last place, & the doors & window would be clear as you'd expect. If you had this properly built just as I have, wherever (else) in the UK you are, & built the inside correctly just as I have... you just wouldn't have this issue/ you wouldn't expect to have this issue.

 

Thanks, Zoothorn.

Use your BCO for help and advice rather than re-doing the works before he/she comes - you might be surprised at the help you’d get. If it’s purely condensation and not damp coming up or through the wall a bit more ventilation might help - possibly trickle vents and this may be suggested during the inspection.

 

I'm afraid that I’d certainly question the existence of the mould if I saw it on site. I wouldn’t be too worried about the sagging plasterboard but I would be asking you to fix it and I would be asking you to prove that the recessed down lighters would not affect the fire performance of the floor.

 

Granny and sucking eggs - If the damp/mould issue is not addressed now it may cause problems later on.