Next Gen Samsung ASHP; 5.11 COP, 70deg HW, Small form factor....

[Andehh]

One we are looking out for, having originally planned to install a Samsung Gen6! Seems to have been released last week, so frustrating few details out there.

 

Anyone else in a similar situation?

 

EHS Mono, R32, High Temperature & Low Noise, Heat Pump | AE120BXYDEG/EU | Samsung Business UK

 

 

[Chanmenie]

I’ll watch out for details on this, I’ll be looking for a heat pump at some point next year.

[PhilT]

Highly impressive. Samsung are at the cutting edge of energy saving gear. One of their latest full height fridge freezer models is claimed to run at an average power consumption of just under 0.3kWh per day!

[SteamyTea]

70°C.

My car can do 113MPH.

Dreadful fuel consumption at that speed.

Cheaper to buy a bigger cylinder.

 

 

[joth]

1 hour ago, SteamyTea said:

70°C.

My car can do 113MPH.

Dreadful fuel consumption at that speed.

Cheaper to buy a bigger cylinder.

 

 

I think the high temperature is more useful for old rads than for DHW 

One sales pitch would be install this ASHP now, and as you gradually upgrade rooms to larger rads or UFH it will eventually be able to perform better.

 

The unit looks good. Scop 5.1 is at 35°C. Scroll compressor.

It'd be good to know standby current, and what the modulation ratio is (minimum output without short cycling).

Supports cooling down to 5°C.

 

Does anyone have the link to install manual for their controllers? Curious if it supports multiple zones at different temps, or a local TCP or modbus API.

 

 

[Radian]

1 hour ago, PhilT said:

Highly impressive. Samsung are at the cutting edge of energy saving gear. One of their latest full height fridge freezer models is claimed to run at an average power consumption of just under 0.3kWh per day!

 

That's nothing. Our 300L Liebherr fridge uses 0.26kWh per day. 😁

^{couldn't resist}

[MrMagic]

Due out beginning of October. Launch event was postponed because of recent stuff. 

[Andehh]

4 hours ago, MrMagic said:

Due out beginning of October. Launch event was postponed because of recent stuff. 

Thanks MrMagic, is that a confident date or one likely to be shunted back? 

 

Any thoughts on it as a product vs previous Samsung? 

 

Thanks again 

[JamesPa]

Looks like these are priced around 7-10K Euro in Poland/Portugal (which are the only places I can find prices). 

 

Not cheap!

[MrMagic]

Initial pricing here now - https://midsummerwholesale.co.uk/buy/samsung-heat-pumps 

[JamesPa]

That's a lot cheaper than in Poland and Portugal.  Let's hope they maintain these prices

[JohnMo]

Twice the price of the old models (8kW) why would you bother?   Not a big step forward in efficiency, either.

[JamesPa]

36 minutes ago, JohnMo said:

Twice the price of the old models (8kW) why would you bother?   Not a big step forward in efficiency, either.

At 8kW I'd probably agree, but for the higher capacity models, size and appearance appear to be a big improvement.  Granted that doesn't matter in some settings, but in others it does.  Until we see the full specs of course its too early to judge fully, but if the location favours a single fan unit and the output requirement is in the 11-16kW range there are relatively few choices.  This seems to add one more.  I could imagine putting this in a visually prominent location, unlike most of the double fan (and a good many of the single fan) units on the market. 

Edited September 23, 2022 by JamesPa

[JamesPa]

Some more specs now available at https://www.samsung.com/global/ecodesign_energy.  

[SteamyTea]

So what is the output modulation of these new units?

[Bonner]

30 minutes ago, JamesPa said:

Some more specs now available at https://www.samsung.com/global/ecodesign_energy.  

Link just takes me to general search page

[joth]

9 minutes ago, Bonner said:

Link just takes me to general search page

Type in the model number from top of this thread... (That's the 12kW model no)

AE120BXYDEG/EU 

 

 

Here's the standby power consumption. 22W is OK. not the best, but very far from the worst.

 

 

 

 

12 minutes ago, SteamyTea said:

So what is the output modulation of these new units?

 

Been looking for some indication of this but not found anything yet....

 

 

 

[JamesPa]

 

 

 

On 24/09/2022 at 08:26, SteamyTea said:

So what is the output modulation of these new units?

There is some info about part load performance here, but I don't know how to interpret this and whether or not it tells you the modulation ratio (but it does suggest that the 12kW unit modulates at least down to 4.7kW).  Midsummer wholesale claim that 12-16kW Samsung heat pumps need min 50l system volume which is pretty good (see here page 3 https://midsummerwholesale.co.uk/pdfs/quick-start-guide-samsung-gen-6-kits.pdf) but I don't know the assumptions or authority for this claim.

 

Perhaps someone on this forum knows how the parameters listed below are measured.

 

 

[Dave Jones]

On 19/09/2022 at 19:20, joth said:

I think the high temperature is more useful for old rads than for DHW 

One sales pitch would be install this ASHP now, and as you gradually upgrade rooms to larger rads or UFH it will eventually be able to perform better.

 

The unit looks good. Scop 5.1 is at 35°C. Scroll compressor.

It'd be good to know standby current, and what the modulation ratio is (minimum output without short cycling).

Supports cooling down to 5°C.

 

Does anyone have the link to install manual for their controllers? Curious if it supports multiple zones at different temps, or a local TCP or modbus API.

 

 

 

multiple zones at diff temps is bad practice and will lower the efficency. 

[SteamyTea]

18 hours ago, JamesPa said:

(but it does suggest that the 12kW unit modulates at least down to 4.7kW

It does, but think it depends just how big a part the part load is.

[markocosic]

Liquid injection to run the compressor harder without melting it or trashing the oil/refrigerant is the party trick. Doesn't do much for performance in the normal range AFAIK.

 

Figures for the 8kW unit vs some for an Ecodan and an R290 Vaillant Arotherm. (these show part load, Samsung doesn't)

 

 

sCOP 4.6 on the 35C cycle and 3.4 on the 55C cycle. It ain't 5+. 

 

Key features:

 

(1) is black (nice)

 

(2) capable of running hotter than you need to for idiots that want hot water over 50C (meh)

 

(3) capable of maintaining output at decently low temperatures for use in real winters (main application)

 

You won't be able to use it for space heating at high temperatures without murderous COP. The idea that you retrofit to old radiators is stupid but that's exactly how the marketing people are going to ensure installations are effed up along with official instructions that tell you to use a 4-pipe buffer vessel to maximise the temperature that the thing here to run at.

 

The sCOP at regular temperatures is good but nothing groundbreaking.  No published part load data so we can't tell how it's really going to perform yet. Uses yesteryear refrigerant but looks to be a generally nice unit even if it is still using legacy refrigerant.

 

Register for Samsung partner portal.for what data there is - no technical limitations to stop anybody doing this even if the official launch has been delayed. Not all the performance data is there yet though.

 

 

If you want a *really* tasty unit...I'd buy something else. €12k but makes sense if your heat load is large enough.

 

https://lambda-wp.at/luft/ 

 

Air to water unit. 

 

High efficiency courtesy of R290 (propane) refrigerant AND hulking great heat exchangers.

 

Seasonal COP of 5.7 on the 35C cycle / 4.6 on the 55C cycle in medium climate. (UK is warm climate so should be better)

 

Rated capacity is down to -10C. Can run up to 70C if required.

 

Quiet courtesy of blowing through the heat exchanger to muffle fan noise rather than sucking through it and giving you direct fan noise.

 

Three options for PV diversion

 

1) run at a set output when digital contact bridged 

 

2) measure the actual excess export and run at as close to this as possible using a meter

 

3) get told what to run by an external device using a modbus input

 

Also tall to avoid getting buried in snow; buried in cold lakes of air; and designed to thermosyphon from the house in the case of a power cut so needs no antifreeze.

 

[dpmiller]

RED are worth a look too as they have a couple of tricks to get to efficiency tailored per install. Pity the hydronic system is so different to everyone elses'...

 

[HughF]

This obsession with old rads needs to end, now.... Who the heck wants their old rads? Mostly they're scratched up, badly painted, undersized and full of sludge.

 

 

[markocosic]

RED are trying to compensate for misguided desire to some a system / general inability to design / balance a space heating circuit by using a very American style pumped zone setup then speed controlling the pumps to set the deltaT.

 

You can do pretty much exactly the same thing with any other heat pump if you swap the inbuilt pump for a spool piece and ensure that your minimum zone flow exceeds that of the heat pump.

 

Pointless though. Just do the pipes and valves right on the space heating circuit...

[dpmiller]

@markocosic that was my feeling too. But the ASHP unit itself has some interesting features- more liquid and vapour injection modes I think?