Low first floor window - solution needed

[Paene Finitur]

We've been told by LABC that one of the windows in a bedroom on the first floor is too low and needs some kind of guard to prevent someone falling out (the windows do have child locks built in) Naturally, we're annoyed that this wasn't picked up earlier when building control signed off the plans, and it's too late now to replace the window.

 

I was thinking of putting some bars across, but the LABC guy said this wouldn't be sufficient as a child could climb the bars. He's suggested a toughened glass barrier. Personally I think this would be pretty intrusive but also probably very expensive. To be brutally honest, I doubt this is a feature that I'd want to keep long term.

 

I wondered if anyone had experience of this and what was acceptable from a building control standpoint?

[Roundtuit]

I can't remember the rules, but I think windows may also need safety glass if below a certain height. I think anything you do on the inside is going look a bit 'unusual'.  How big a job is it to move the window, or replace with a laminated non-opener?

[markc]

No reason for it to be picked up in ‘the plans’ and you can have low level windows but they have to be protected so either not opening at all, or only top part opening and any low level glass must be toughened and laminated 

[Temp]

We had same problem. BCO just asked for a wire to prevent the window being opened more than a few inches like you get in hotels. Cant think of their proper name.

[Temp]

Restrictors..

https://www.screwfix.com/p/smith-locke-window-restrictor-white-200mm/218HR?kpid=218HR&ds_kid=92700058176431263&ds_rl=1244072&gclid=CjwKCAjw1ICZBhAzEiwAFfvFhFN_OVI9RzxY2CyRkjx1HrucCxIL8dzw2IjpXDPQSPMQABzDtOG0GxoC_XsQAvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds

[joe90]

8 minutes ago, Roundtuit said:

but I think windows may also need safety glass if below a certain height.

Yes,

 

also this from NHBC. 
“The window must be prevented from opening more than 100mm in order to comply with Part K.”

I have seen this on hotel windows by a short flexible cable fixed from frame to openable window, also any guarding must not be climeable .

[ProDave]

Hand rail and spindles like on a banister, the important thing being they are vertical spindles so you can't climb up them.  BC accepted that to make a Juliet Balcony in front of a door.

[Paene Finitur]

Thanks all. I've emailed him to ask whether a jaclock (short cable restraint) would suffice. Fingers crossed.

[markc]

4 minutes ago, Paene Finitur said:

Thanks all. I've emailed him to ask whether a jaclock (short cable restraint) would suffice. Fingers crossed.

It will be fine as long as the glass is toughened and laminated and they will want to see paperwork to prove.

[Dave Jones]

23 hours ago, Paene Finitur said:

We've been told by LABC that one of the windows in a bedroom on the first floor is too low and needs some kind of guard to prevent someone falling out (the windows do have child locks built in) Naturally, we're annoyed that this wasn't picked up earlier when building control signed off the plans, and it's too late now to replace the window.

 

I was thinking of putting some bars across, but the LABC guy said this wouldn't be sufficient as a child could climb the bars. He's suggested a toughened glass barrier. Personally I think this would be pretty intrusive but also probably very expensive. To be brutally honest, I doubt this is a feature that I'd want to keep long term.

 

I wondered if anyone had experience of this and what was acceptable from a building control standpoint?

 

If its not a fire escape window make it non-opening (remove handles). Get signed off, re-attach handles.

[Conor]

Are they tilt and turn? Speak to your window company as a lot of them can be configured to be tilt only. (if not an escape window). We're getting ours done shortly, think it's about £25 a window.

[Bonner]

I have the same problem, first floor windows at 600mm from floor level ... but several are fire escape windows. Can I get an opening restrictor which also allows escape in an emergency (acceptable to BC)?

[Paene Finitur]

1 hour ago, Bonner said:

I have the same problem, first floor windows at 600mm from floor level ... but several are fire escape windows. Can I get an opening restrictor which also allows escape in an emergency (acceptable to BC)?

The feedback from the Warranty surveyor has been receptive to using a jaclock although they've asked me to check with building control. Point about escape windows is a good one though, as I chose the permanent version which is probably more suitable to third floor and above where window escape is not a realistic possibility. So do I go with a key version and keep the key nearby? What if someone unlocks it and leaves it unlocked? You could really end up overthinking this.

[Bonner]

I agree, lots of what if’s ... all windows are lockable, is that allowed for fire escape?

[ETC]

On 13/09/2022 at 07:41, Paene Finitur said:

We've been told by LABC that one of the windows in a bedroom on the first floor is too low and needs some kind of guard to prevent someone falling out (the windows do have child locks built in) Naturally, we're annoyed that this wasn't picked up earlier when building control signed off the plans, and it's too late now to replace the window.

 

I was thinking of putting some bars across, but the LABC guy said this wouldn't be sufficient as a child could climb the bars. He's suggested a toughened glass barrier. Personally I think this would be pretty intrusive but also probably very expensive. To be brutally honest, I doubt this is a feature that I'd want to keep long term.

 

I wondered if anyone had experience of this and what was acceptable from a building control standpoint?

Firstly - if the window is at first floor level only and the height of the opening is less than 800mm above the floor level then the glass needs to be safety glass to act as guarding.
 

Secondly - if the window can also open more than 100mm then then window needs guarding so that someone cannot fall out. The solution is simple - fit a non-lockable restrictor stay. Not one with a lock as shown by a previous poster. These do not comply. Fit something like this: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Window-Restrictor-Hook-Safety-Handed/dp/B00D9190BM/ref=asc_df_B00D9190BM/?tag=googshopuk-21&linkCode=df0&hvadid=214440742293&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=10205647162280157693&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=1007277&hvtargid=pla-421872985378&psc=1

[Paene Finitur]

21 hours ago, ETC said:

...  Not one with a lock as shown by a previous poster. These do not comply. 

This is strange as the windows already have child locks built in. When you open them, they open a max of 8-10cm, but there's a button inside the rim that, when pressed, allows it to open to full extent. I don't see how the linked item is any safer than that really, although I accept that one might be acceptable to building control and the other not for reasons I don't understand. I would guess the window would have to be openable by a competent adult (or even child) in an emergency, to meet fire regulations?

[ETC]

If the window is already fitted with a restrictor stay I don’t see the issue. Speak to LABC and ask them why the window needs guarding.

[joe90]

6 hours ago, ETC said:

If the window is already fitted with a restrictor stay I don’t see the issue. Speak to LABC and ask them why the window needs guarding.

Typical non consistencies with building control officers.

[ETC]

7 minutes ago, joe90 said:

Typical non consistencies with building control officers.

Sounds like they don’t know what to ask for.

[ETC]

On 14/09/2022 at 19:37, Bonner said:

I have the same problem, first floor windows at 600mm from floor level ... but several are fire escape windows. Can I get an opening restrictor which also allows escape in an emergency (acceptable to BC)?

Yes you can. See my post above for restrictor specification.

[Toaly]

@ETC did you come up with a solution for this.? I've got the same issue and need to come up with a solution so any suggestions would be greatly appreciate.

[Bonner]

I did … simply fitted restrictors similar to the link posted by @ETC which BC accepted.

[ETC]

It’s very simple.

 

1. You need guarding to a window where the cill is lower than 800mm above FFL.

2. If the window doesn’t open fit safety glass.

3. If the window does open fit safety glass and a restrictor stay to restrict the opening to 100mm.

4. If the window is acting as an EEW the restrictor stay must be capable of being opened without a key and in a single operation.

[Gordo]

On 18/09/2022 at 22:16, joe90 said:

Typical non consistencies with building control officers.

The reason for inconsistencies is there is no formal guidance for this scenario and BC must look at the functional requirements of the regulations and make a considered opinion. 

 

If the window opening is below 800mm it requires adequate guarding. this must be permanent and strong enough. No wise person would consider opening restricters screwed to a uPVC window as strong enough and an opening restricter that can be disengaged should not be considered adequate. A BCO who accepts this is making a poor decision IMO and would struggle to justify his decision should someone fall out a window that he deemed safe. A robust rail at 800mm may be considered adequate, if the gap to window opening is small enough that someone could not fall through it (but some may get hung up on the 100mm maximum gap rule, which i may/not agree with )

Edited December 5 by Gordo

[ETC]

On 05/12/2024 at 01:16, Gordo said:

The reason for inconsistencies is there is no formal guidance for this scenario and BC must look at the functional requirements of the regulations and make a considered opinion. 

 

If the window opening is below 800mm it requires adequate guarding. this must be permanent and strong enough. No wise person would consider opening restricters screwed to a uPVC window as strong enough and an opening restricter that can be disengaged should not be considered adequate. A BCO who accepts this is making a poor decision IMO and would struggle to justify his decision should someone fall out a window that he deemed safe. A robust rail at 800mm may be considered adequate, if the gap to window opening is small enough that someone could not fall through it (but some may get hung up on the 100mm maximum gap rule, which i may/not agree with )

Ideally physical guarding should be used. However where the cill is less than 800mm above FFL and its an EEW NI BC will accept a restrictor stay that can be opened in a single action and re-engages when the window is closed.