Dave's Balcony

[Onoff]

I believe Scots pine is the timber used for telegraph poles? Using 2 of those as the main uprights, with a rich black stain might give a nice connection to the landscape and match the downpipes? Tall enough too to carry on to handrail height. You'd need to lay them flat and machine flats, mortices perhaps. 

[Ferdinand]

I'd have a serious look at a real glass system, but delay the purchase until energy comes back down or you can get a deal. Glass is currently very expensive - to the extent that my 2G man said wait for a year or two on blown units.

 

Have you considered whether you want a - something underneath, b - a canopy?

 

F

[Ferdinand]

How are you managing your runoff?

 

A channel and chains?

[ProDave]

1 hour ago, Ferdinand said:

How are you managing your runoff?

 

A channel and chains?

Not thought about that one.  It's only a small area so I could use mini gutter and downpipes, I don't see an easy way for a hidden system.

[Ferdinand]

1 hour ago, ProDave said:

Not thought about that one.  It's only a small area so I could use mini gutter and downpipes, I don't see an easy way for a hidden system.

 

Wouldn't a hidden system be underneath with a shallow fascia in front?

 

Shed gutters are 50mm systems, aren't they - so it should fit in a small space.

[ProDave]

That's the balcony finished, it only took just over an hour.

 

 

Only joking in case anyone thinks I am serious.

 

The actual balcony will be a little less wide than the scaffold, it won't overlap the landing window, and a bit deeper than the scaffold, I may later put another bay in front of that if I need more working room.

 

Now I am seeking some ideas.  I would like the space under the balcony to be pretty dry, i.e. I don't want water dripping through the gaps in the decking planks.  so either some form of waterproof sheet under the deck boards (with a spacer?) or does anyone sell interlocking composite deck boards that click together like some flooring and make an almost watertight surface?

 

And thinking of ideas for the banister and our thoughts are turning away from glass towards stringing it with stainless steel "yacht rigging" wire, but not wanting to pay chandlery prices. Does anyone know a source of the wire and end fittings at more of a consumer price aimed at this sort of application?

[Simplysimon]

ahh, H&S at it's best! what about a stair co for wire and fixings? tbh they may just get it from chandlery and re-sell

[ProDave]

I know some yacht rigging type fittings are available for banister applications.  I saw one in a house the other day I will see if I can find and upload the photo later.  The "terminal" that the wire attaches to appears to have a wood screw thread that you just screw into the newel post and make off the wire into that.  You certainly don't see rigging wire on a yacht terminated like that, so this is something made for buildings not boats.  But I have not yet found it for sale anywhere.

[joe90]

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/234632016056?hash=item36a12870b8:g:dI8AAOSwHjdi2XlC

[ProDave]

This is the sort of thing I have in mind. https://www.s3i.co.uk/balustradeB4.php

 

But say 4 wires all the way round, that would be 8 of 2M kits at £39.90 and 4 of 5M kits at £43.8

 

That's just shy of £500

 

At the other end of the spectrum is this https://www.amazon.co.uk/Pohoopo-Stainless-Balustrade-Invisible-Tensioners/dp/B092CYRQXY/ref=sr_1_11?keywords=balustrade+wire+kit&qid=1662214460&sr=8-11

 

Three of those might do, for £100

[Triassic]

Why is it that balconies are so difficult?

 

I've still got to construct ours, its 3m x 7.5m. Originally it was to be a steel perimeter with timber infill and glass balustrades. However, both the steel company and the joinery company have gone bust in the last few months. So it looks like I'll be doing the work myself, as I can't get a sensible quote for love not money.

 

Is there a design guide to constructing timber balconies?

[SteamyTea]

19 minutes ago, Triassic said:

So it looks like I'll be doing the work myself

In the middle of Lidl last week they had a self darkening wielding mask and an inverter arc welder.

Wait a while and they will have a band saw again.

Failing that, they have a cordless angle grinder, batteries (and I assume a charger somewhere) and a contraption to mount the angle grinder to make it into a cut off saw.

 

Sure they will have a tin of Hammerite as well.

[Triassic]

1 minute ago, SteamyTea said:

In the middle of Lidl last week they had a self darkening wielding mask and an inverter arc welder.

Wait a while and they will have a band saw again.

Failing that, they have a cordless angle grinder, batteries (and I assume a charger somewhere) and a contraption to mount the angle grinder to make it into a cut off saw.

 

Sure they will have a tin of Hammerite as well.

I'm not against to doing it myself, I just thought it would be nice to get something done for me for once! I could have just stood there and tutted!

[SteamyTea]

Just now, Triassic said:

I'm not against to doing it myself, I just thought it would be nice to get something done for me for once! I could have just stood there and tutted!

Have you been reading this weeks New Scientist!

[Onoff]

3 hours ago, SteamyTea said:

In the middle of Lidl last week they had a self darkening wielding mask and an inverter arc welder.

Wait a while and they will have a band saw again.

Failing that, they have a cordless angle grinder, batteries (and I assume a charger somewhere) and a contraption to mount the angle grinder to make it into a cut off saw.

 

Sure they will have a tin of Hammerite as well.

 

I've the Lidl version of the 140A inverter arc welder, it's ace. 

 

Also got a Scheppach bandsaw from Aldi. More a cut off saw than what we think of as a bandsaw that you push work through. Great piece of kit. Far less messy and scary than the Evolution Rage chopsaw.

[Simplysimon]

and for the technophobes, lidl have water levels for £4.99

[LnP]

What about these steel railings - FH Brundle Fortitude

I need to install 16 m of balustrade on a roof terrace and would have been happy with the Brundle stuff, but the balustrade needs to sit on a 200 mm parapet wall. Brundle only do the standard 1100 mm high railing required for Building Regs, and I think a 1300 mm high balustrade will feel like being behind bars in a zoo.

I got a quote for glass from Elite Balustrades for £6000, supply only. A local steel fabricator quoted £5400 to supply and fit a galvanised and painted railing, similar style to Brundle Fortitude, but 900 mm high.

if I hadn’t had the parapet wall I would have gone for the off the shelf Brundle Fortitude. Not decided yet what to do. 

 

[ProDave]

I will have a look, but all those prices you mentioned have an extra 0 on the end compared to my expectations......

[ProDave]

Turning my thoughts to hardware to get this project moving.  (Timber,  joist hangers and nails are easy)

 

I need to attach the joist adjacent to the house, through the wood fibre EWI into the timber ring beam that runs all around the house at inter floor level.  EWI is 100mm thick plus render, say 10mm plus a gap (I won't want the joist to touch) so say 130 to 140mm spacers.  I am considering aluminium tube for the spacers, cheaper and easier to work than stainless steel.  Something like this, 1" diameter, 3/4" bore  https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/324685597451?

 

Assuming I make the spacers 140mm, then there is the joist thickness, 50mm,  and a reasonable distance to screw into the 50mm thick ring beam, plus a washer either side of the joist, I am looking for coach screws about 250mm long.  My issue here is by the time you get to the long ones like this, I can only find them in thin sizes.  I had in mind M10 or even M12?  Any ideas? Largest I have found at 250mm is 7mm which seems too small for the job?

[joe90]

Gosh that’s a challenge, my thoughts are that that’s a lot of leverage over the distance. My initial thoughts are could you cut through the EWI and fit a timber the same depth as the ring beam, yes I know it would be a thermal bridge but timber is not that bad!!, probably not as bad as the aluminium? 🤔

[ProDave]

18 minutes ago, joe90 said:

Gosh that’s a challenge, my thoughts are that that’s a lot of leverage over the distance.

Hence why I want decent sized coach screws.  I am not trying to cantilever the balcony from that, it will be supported on posts that will take most of the weight, so this is to fix it to the wall and keep it there.  

 

The holes through the EWI will be drilled snug and bottom out when they meet the ring beam and be sealed to death when the spacers go in, then the coach bolt through the joist and spacer into the ring beam.  At the 2 ends where most of the load will be (see joist plan near the start of the thread) I plan on a fixing at the top and the bottom of the 8" joist, so that will cut down the leverage of any bending moment.

 

So far I have found 2 suppliers of M12 250mm coach screws.  One only has 5 in stock, I am waiting an answer on when they expect more.  Another has them in stock but wants to fleece me more in postage because of my location than the cost of the screws.

[PeterW]

@ProDave look at Dowel Screws. They are usually galvanised steel and have a torx drive in one end and come in all sizes. You would end up with studs poking from the wall then and just use M10/12 nuts and washers on the ends. 

[Onoff]

If you can't get the length you want...You could use a short, stainless dowel screw into the timber ring beam. Then a stainless thread connector and as long a piece of stainless stud as you need coming off that.  

 

 

[ProDave]

I can get long M12 Coach screws in Stainless steel.  Is there any reason not to use those?  e.g are they not as strong?

 

No luck finding Dowel Screws longer than 200mm yet.

[Onoff]

A2 or A4 are how corrosion resistant the stainless is. A4 (316) is sometimes referred to as marine grade. The strength will likely be 70 or 80. 80 being better than 70 and roughly skin to an 8.8 steel bolt. 

 

Doubt woodscrew manufacturers will quote the material strength just A2 or A4. 

 

Found these:

 

M12x250:

 

https://www.westfieldfasteners.co.uk/Bolts-Screws-Metric/Dowel-Screw-Hanger-Bolt-Centre-Hex-Drive-M12x250-A2-Stainless.html