Sunamp heat battery

[Nickfromwales]

1 hour ago, oldkettle said:

I know I've missed the discount (work and family commitments) but in case a good deal comes up again I have a question. 

 

We currently have a vented system with a relatively small hot water tank. Water is heated by a condensing boiler and there is an immersion heating element which we use regularly as washing long hair (not mine -:-)) takes a lot of time. The boiler short cycles quite often while heating water. We have hard water with no softener. 

 

As it a is not clear when we're going to get PP and following that builders to actually do anything I want to know whether it could be possible and feasible at all to buy a 12Kw Sunamp and hopefully directly replace the existing tank. Again, the idea is at some point it would be moved and the system would change quite a lot. Hopefully, the connections can be redone. 

 

Thanks in advance for any suggestions. 

Ill add more to this later. ? 

The PCM 58 would do it, and will recharge off the boiler. You just need to cap the max temp of the flow so you don't (cannot ever)  cook the PCM and kill the SA. 

 

[Onoff]

43 minutes ago, Nickfromwales said:

Ill add more to this later. ? 

The PCM 58 would do it, and will recharge off the boiler. You just need to cap the max temp of the flow so you don't (cannot ever)  cook the PCM and kill the SA. 

 

 

Is there anything that can fail, boiler wise and kill the SA? Boiler stat?

[oldkettle]

8 minutes ago, Onoff said:

 

Is there anything that can fail, boiler wise and kill the SA? Boiler stat?

I'd guess when the boiler HW overheats it happens quite quickly and I saw the temperature rising above 80C many times. 

[Onoff]

1 minute ago, oldkettle said:

I'd guess when the boiler HW overheats it happens quite quickly and I saw the temperature rising above 80C many times. 

 

Just thinking my oil boiler only has one stat on. Presume they fail safe?

[dpmiller]

oil boiler stats are often doubles- is the a small screw cap beside the knob? could be a reset in behind it if so.

[Simplysimon]

On 26/06/2018 at 16:31, oranjeboom said:

For anyone on the verge of committing to purchase a Sunamp unit, you may want to bite the bullet sooner than later:

 

current 10% discount - or 20% for a fully-paid purchase by 29th June!

 

hope others have better luck with SA. I've been informed of the cost of a 12kw unit after chasing them up as i heard nothing, was told i'd be given a phone....nothing. phoned head office on friday morning, didn't get a reply until after 10am even though website says from 9am. asked about a showroom to see units, discuss project and told sorry no showroom. 

 

if it wasn't for this site saying how good it is then i would just dismiss the system. if it weren't for @Nickfromwales i don't think they would do any sales.

[Nickfromwales]

3 minutes ago, Simplysimon said:

 

hope others have better luck with SA. I've been informed of the cost of a 12kw unit after chasing them up as i heard nothing, was told i'd be given a phone....nothing. phoned head office on friday morning, didn't get a reply until after 10am even though website says from 9am. asked about a showroom to see units, discuss project and told sorry no showroom. 

 

if it wasn't for this site saying how good it is then i would just dismiss the system. if it weren't for @Nickfromwales i don't think they would do any sales.

There is definitely a sense that there could be more hands to the pump. AndyT must look at my name coming up on his phone and cringe, as I think I take up a fair bit of his time with my many Q's and A's.  . 

This week must have been crazy in fairness, but that's not an excuse for you to have not received any attention.  

 

For a bit of clarity, SA sell boxes filled with magic goo. A retail supplier. Nowt else. 

They don't design systems they just give an indication of what type of unit would match your basic remit and give indicative costs thereof. 

If you went to Baxi for a combi boiler and asked the same of them you'd be given the same response, and then be told to go and consult your plumber. 

 

Im not here to promote SA or 'stick up for them', I just like the product. 

[Nickfromwales]

3 hours ago, Onoff said:

 

Is there anything that can fail, boiler wise and kill the SA? Boiler stat?

Of course there is / are. Thats why you mitigate against that with either a blending valve, or a combination of a blending valve and a temp sensor that closes a zone valve at a set temp rise. It'll be as safe as you make it, or it'll be as safe as the manufacturer deems fit to make it as per the instructions that will accompany it upon its delivery. 

The second resettable stat on the oil boiler will likely not have not operated in time to save the Sunamp unit, however as I have not designed for a boiler instance as of yet, I must admit I haven't asked the question or explored that marriage fully enough to be able to advise definitively.  

[Nickfromwales]

4 hours ago, oldkettle said:

I'd guess when the boiler HW overheats it happens quite quickly and I saw the temperature rising above 80C many times. 

Wont matter as the SA will not be fed off the HW side  

[Alexphd1]

1 hour ago, Simplysimon said:

 

hope others have better luck with SA. I've been informed of the cost of a 12kw unit after chasing them up as i heard nothing, was told i'd be given a phone....nothing. phoned head office on friday morning, didn't get a reply until after 10am even though website says from 9am. asked about a showroom to see units, discuss project and told sorry no showroom. 

 

if it wasn't for this site saying how good it is then i would just dismiss the system. if it weren't for @Nickfromwales i don't think they would do any sales.

 

I had a similar experience with sunamp, many phone calls and promises of to phone back when somebody was available and nothing (over a few weeks). I did contact AndyT direct who made time (on his own time) to explain a few things, ultimately the system didn't fit what we needed but high possibility we will be using a unit on build 2.  

 

 

[AndyT]

Hi,

I sure you understand that being an employee of Sunamp I have to keep on the right side of the BH Police.

I do try to have a look in here from time to time but it's by no means every day @Nickfromwales has my contact details if you need me.

Kind regards to all.

AndyT.

[Triassic]

I'm thinking, again, about hot water, given that the Sunamp units are on offer.

 

I'm considering having PV on the roof and using it to heat the Sunamp battery when the sun shines, and mains power when it doesn't. I'll also have a small buffer store of water preheated using the ASHP.

 

So having looked at what others have installed I'm confused. Jeremy has a Sunamp PV,  having got a quote from Sunamp, they suggest a Sunamp UniQ eHW 9.

What's the difference between the two units?

[le-cerveau]

The UniQ eHW is the way SunAMp now sell their units, they no longer make the PV, though retailers may have them.  They have a unified range with/without heater elements, PCM34/58/73, 3/6/9/12/30/60 kWh size with various control strategies.

 

You state your need and your heating engineer selects the appropriate units from the range.

[Simplysimon]

3 hours ago, le-cerveau said:

You state your need and your heating engineer selects the appropriate units from the range.

 

and that's as long as your heating engineer doesn't go, 'you're buying a what?', 'it works how?' 'phase what?' 'do you not just want a combi boiler?'

[AndyT]

3 hours ago, Triassic said:

I'm thinking, again, about hot water, given that the Sunamp units are on offer.

 

I'm considering having PV on the roof and using it to heat the Sunamp battery when the sun shines, and mains power when it doesn't. I'll also have a small buffer store of water preheated using the ASHP.

 

So having looked at what others have installed I'm confused. Jeremy has a Sunamp PV,  having got a quote from Sunamp, they suggest a Sunamp UniQ eHW 9.

What's the difference between the two units?

 

Hi physical differences are;

• No circulating pump because the heating element is now sitting under the plate heat exchanger. This has the benefit of simplifying the hydraulics.
• The safety thermostat is now remote, so you do not have to take the lid of the box off get a torch and long screwdriver to reset - just push the external reset button.
• Pipes now come out of the top of the cell and then into a 90 degree bend and can be directed out of the box through knockouts which ever way/direction you wish.
• Because of the pipe change and removal of pump heat exchanger can be larger with more PCM so it has a greater capacity
• Rather than having 2 cells there is now just 1 - again simplifies design and works better because there is no chimney effect between the cells and now gives us an ERP rating of A+
• SunampPV was 5kWh of storage UniQ eHW 9 is still just for DHW but has the increased capacity (nearly same size)

UniQ sizes now go (understated to kWh storage capacity)

3 - 70 lts

6 - 140 lts

9 - 210 lts

12 - 280lts or 14kWh in storage with 0.8kWh/24h SHL = 13.2kWh out

All of above have the same footprint and grow in height with size 

 

80 - 90kWh of storage, approx weight 1.5 ton.

20' container close to 2MWh - legal road weight is limiting factor.

[AndyT]

14 minutes ago, Simplysimon said:

and that's as long as your heating engineer doesn't go, 'you're buying a what?', 'it works how?' 'phase what?' 'do you not just want a combi boiler?'

 

And when the first motor carriage replaced the horse and cart - a man with a red flag was sent ahead ....

[newhome]

10 minutes ago, AndyT said:

 

And when the first motor carriage replaced the horse and cart - a man with a red flag was sent ahead ....

 

Indeed, but marketing, education, detailed information and solid case histories are the way forward almost 150 years on. I had never heard of Sunamp before I joined this site (and the main office is just down the road from me) and I suspect that 99% of the population won’t have either. 

[AndyT]

10 minutes ago, newhome said:

 

Indeed, but marketing, education, detailed information and solid case histories are the way forward almost 150 years on. I had never heard of Sunamp before I joined this site (and the main office is just down the road from me) and I suspect that 99% of the population won’t have either. 

 

Agreed early days and it took us 6.5 years of R&D before Mk1. we are now at Mk.3  - so I agree with trying to keep powder dry in the early stages.

Things are about to get "very " exciting and hence why I am staying on past retirement age to enjoy it!

[willbish]

@AndyT I appreciate you taking the time to answer questions on the forum but please would you be so kind as to confirm receipt of my order and money which I sent to you last week.

 

I made my order on the 27/06 and electronic transfer of over £5k. Since then I have sent two emails both unanswered. I spoke to you on the phone today just before lunch. You said you'd be right back to me.

I have at times since last Wednesday wondered whether I have been the victim of a hoax. Or at best wondering what the post sales service will be like...

 

I'm only asking for a simple confirmation that money has been received, perhaps a small thank you.

 

Really didn't want to post publicly but don't want to wake up for another morning wondering if there's a small possibility I might've been scammed!

[AndyT]

10 minutes ago, willbish said:

@AndyT I appreciate you taking the time to answer questions on the forum but please would you be so kind as to confirm receipt of my order and money which I sent to you last week.

 

I made my order on the 27/06 and electronic transfer of over £5k. Since then I have sent two emails both unanswered. I spoke to you on the phone today just before lunch. You said you'd be right back to me.

I have at times since last Wednesday wondered whether I have been the victim of a hoax. Or at best wondering what the post sales service will be like...

 

I'm only asking for a simple confirmation that money has been received, perhaps a small thank you.

 

Really didn't want to post publicly but don't want to wake up for another morning wondering if there's a small possibility I might've been scammed!

 

@willbish Humble apologies - you are quite right, - I did check and we did get your funds but I was tardy not to reply to you.

I do hope you will accept my sincere apologies.

And a BIG thank you.

Kind regards

AndyT.

Edited July 4, 2018 by AndyT

[willbish]

1 minute ago, AndyT said:

 

@willbish Humble apologies - you are quite right, - I did check and we did get your funds but I was tardy not to reply to you.

I do hope you will accept my sincere apologies.

Kind regards

AndyT.

 

No probs at all. I understand Sunamp are going through a busy period, and long may it continue.

 

I've got a quick question regarding electric immersions, as @Nickfromwales mentioned earlier 3kW immersion is actually 3x 1kW. If I want to power my Sunamp with DC solar PV should I request one or perhaps two of those immersions to be DC compatible?

 

Thanks

[AndyT]

1 minute ago, willbish said:

 

No probs at all. I understand Sunamp are going through a busy period, and long may it continue.

 

I've got a quick question regarding electric immersions, as @Nickfromwales mentioned earlier 3kW immersion is actually 3x 1kW. If I want to power my Sunamp with DC solar PV should I request one or perhaps two of those immersions to be DC compatible?

 

Thanks

 

@willbish  Many thanks for your understanding. Yes just super hectic since Silverstone  Fully Charged Live.

 

I am going to the office in Scotland next week where I will see the new production line in the factory and be discussing numerous things.

One of which is the new product is the UniQ dPV 2 and 3 ( 2=HW only and 3=HW and space heating) the importance of this is with no future FIT or export tariffs!

Clearly why would you want to install a PV system and give away the export for nothing. "bonkers"!

 

It also has an affect on DNO applications for connection to new builds.

 

If you go to the DNO and ask for a connection the 1st thing they now ask, (knowing that Building regs want Solar PV for SAP) is "oh and will you be installing solar PV on the property?"

As soon as you say yes, guess what the connection price increases (surprise surprise) as they want to penalise you for re-enforcing the grid.

 

So we took the approach - keep it DC, charge the heat batteries directly, avoid cost of a grid tied inverter and the losses converting DC to AC etc.

Combined Primary Storage Units (CPSU's) are very well favoured by SAP so add points.

 

It's fair to say I have not seen this yet as I have not visited the factory recently but "we" have engaged with a national house builder to do a trial on 16 properties.

When I get back I will know more and will be able to discuss.

 

KR

nite nite.

AndyT

 

 

[willbish]

A DC array or a mixture of AC fortified with DC is something I am exploring and would like this option to be kept open for my SA units.

 

Very keen to hear more info when it's available.

 

Cheers

 

[Nickfromwales]

The DC array had me thinking..... bigger array and no need for any grid-tie and its constraints. Then I thought of keeping things all AC but splitting a bigger array up into 2 halves or 3 thirds and just having one as the generic ( no grief from DNO ) 3.96kW array, and the others as non grid tied PV > SA dedicated arrays. 

Then a third option came to my attention, the SolarEdge inverter, with export limitation. Whack the lot on the roof, grid tie, and the system restricts itself to 3.96kW export. The caveat is that the DNO are still as aware of this as they are of inverter driven Heatpumps ( still in the dark ages with both ), so they may ask for a witness session ( some charge for that ) to actually witness the unit actively limiting. Once satisfied, they sign you off and thats that. More to follow when I dig a bit deeper on that, but ill add to a relevant PV thread instead of cluttering this up.  

[Triassic]

Great thread, thanks everyone for all the contributions.

 

ln my own installation I’m going for a Sunamp for my DHW, if I coupled this to the PV array described by Nick (above), why, in a well insulated house, do I need a ASHP?