Zoot wood balcony job.

[zoothorn]

Render question.

 

Anyone know about the vertical white plastic vents between blocks? They're possibly set proud of the block?

 

If so maybe there's a standard extent renderers aim to set them proud of the block.
 

Thanks, zoot

 

 

[zoothorn]

Prolly 3/4" in here.. 

 

[Big Jimbo]

Hard to tell Zoot the hoot but, from the picture it looks like you may be way past the render and into the block. So hard to tell from looking at the pic

[zoothorn]

1 hour ago, Big Jimbo said:

Hard to tell Zoot the hoot but, from the picture it looks like you may be way past the render and into the block. So hard to tell from looking at the pic

Hi BJ, yes this is what I'm thinking too. Dammit. This is holding me up. If only I'd thought of asking this area under my doors to be smooth render.

 

So another option surely on paper anyway, is whether these mumps dips areas, can be added to.. to flatten it all.

 

But then Im fixing into who knows 2" of render, & still unsure where the block starts, to guage how far in to go with the studs.

 

Would anyone know if there's any way of -removing- this render?

 

Zoot

[Big Jimbo]

The only other thing is, do you know how thick the blocks used in the construction are ? (100mm). You could drill until you reach the cavity. Then using a wire coat hanger with a small 90 degree bend on the end, measure the depth of each of the holes. You could then plug each hole with a bit of plastic bag untill it gives you the 80mm depth you require for the stainless steel rod. Pump each of the holes full of resin and stick you overlenght rods in. When they have gone off, cut and put on your spacers and washers. Put your timber up, followed by your washers and bolts. Then trim off the excess rods.

[Onoff]

First off I'd sluice that drilled hole out with water from a plant spray bottle. Drilling dust may well be masking an obvious colour change between render and the underlying block.

[Onoff]

11 hours ago, zoothorn said:

Would anyone know if there's any way of -removing- this render?

 

I wouldn't remove the render. That makes up part of your protective "rain screen" against the elements. 

 

To remove it you'd have to first screw your ledger on to the bumpy face. Then use a grinder to cut into the render using the ledger as a guide. Then hope you could bolster off the render and that it would separate cleanly from the block face.

 

To make it "flat", for the ledger to sit against, you'd first have to remove the paint for any subsequent render to have a chance of sticking. Cup brush in a grinder for that. Messy. Eye protection, mask etc. As aforementioned, having some airflow behind the ledger is a good thing. 

[zoothorn]

4 hours ago, Onoff said:

 

I wouldn't remove the render. That makes up part of your protective "rain screen" against the elements. 

 

To remove it you'd have to first screw your ledger on to the bumpy face. Then use a grinder to cut into the render using the ledger as a guide. Then hope you could bolster off the render and that it would separate cleanly from the block face.

 

To make it "flat", for the ledger to sit against, you'd first have to remove the paint for any subsequent render to have a chance of sticking. Cup brush in a grinder for that. Messy. Eye protection, mask etc. As aforementioned, having some airflow behind the ledger is a good thing. 

Hi there Onoff. Understood. Those options sound a nightmare.

 

Ok so Im back to finding this block point. I've thought of getting the pro guy in.. but he'd be surely in the same boat. 
 

What I have found, as a clue?, is this photo. If these vents all put in to a similar proud mark (presumably all were) on all 3 walls prior to rendering.. & their extent out must be some "render guide" then I think my best bet is aiming for "20mm" below the vents.. as my block start point. 30mm sounds wrong/ too thick, to me.

 

Does 20mm ring a bell to anyone, as a standard dim to set these vents proud of the block I wonder? 
 

Better than a 30mm mark, if I'm aiming the studs into the block a good 50mm minimum surely.

 

Thanks, zoot.

 

 

Edited July 1, 2022 by zoothorn

[joe90]

Well Zoot if you go in 30mm, even if it’s into the block a little it won’t hurt.

[Onoff]

25 minutes ago, joe90 said:

Well Zoot if you go in 30mm, even if it’s into the block a little it won’t hurt.

 

If he wants all his spacers the same length he'll have say do one at each end of the ledger. Then string a line between the two to get the intermediate spacers at the same depth by careful drilling.

 

 

[zoothorn]

On 01/07/2022 at 13:53, Onoff said:

 

If he wants all his spacers the same length he'll have say do one at each end of the ledger. Then string a line between the two to get the intermediate spacers at the same depth by careful drilling.

 

 

Hi chaps. (More oldies' wknd duties. But Im free again!)

 

Great help Onoff with this sketch, really clear. Stringline good.

 

Ok back on board. I've (best I can) determined my highest bump, to the start of the block @ 45mm. Call it 50mm including "A Little More" safety.

 

Now is this figure excessively high for the spacers I wonder?

 

Thanks, zoot.

 

 

[zoothorn]

@Onoff

 

Just going over thread again. Gets clearer. I think joist hangers rather than routed rebates, just for ease.

 

One question: I get Peter's idea of 3x studs twds the top of ledger board ( 50mm down), & 2x twds bottom, midway 'between'. This seems to stabilise proceedings.

 

But don't the spacer's also need a flat say steel surface to press against, at the block? might they cut in without?
 

I realise tho getting a big square washer for eg, here... is a tricky prospect: clearing & prep a big smooth area of render.
 

I'm sure you'd have considered this "pressure point" though. 
 

Thanks, zoot

[joe90]

12 minutes ago, zoothorn said:

But don't the spacer's also need a flat say steel surface to press against, at the block? might they cut in without?

Fair question I suppose, but the stress on the fixings will be shear, in other words vertically down, the pressure on the spacers will depend on the tightness of the nuts only! Perhaps a thick walled tube as the spacer would suffice!, gentlemen, comment!

[Onoff]

2 hours ago, zoothorn said:

I realise tho getting a big square washer for eg, here... is a tricky prospect: clearing & prep a big smooth area of render.

 

The thoughts up to now weren't to have a washer here, just tube bearing against block. It's a fair comment though. Imho I don't think it will be an issue. 

 

If you are worried you could buy, quite cheaply, half a dozen large dia stainless washers. You will of course need a correspondingly larger hole. This could be made with a sacrificial flat wood bit. There would then be a gap around the spacer you would need to fill of course. Something like Sika EBT I would for piece of mind. 

 

I'll have another look for large OD round, stainless washers. I could tack them onto the spacer tubes...reminds me I asked laddo to buy more 316 stainless rods, I wonder if he ordered them as he's suffering quite badly from the Covid?

[PeterW]

2 hours ago, zoothorn said:

But don't the spacer's also need a flat say steel surface to press against, at the block? might they cut in without?
 

I realise tho getting a big square washer for eg, here... is a tricky prospect: clearing & prep a big smooth area of render.
 

I'm sure you'd have considered this "pressure point"

Nope - they won’t cut in as most of the load is in sheer not compression. Worst case you add a round washer the same size as the spacer and the hole at the back, it could also be used as a shim to level all the tubes if needed. 

[PeterW]

33 minutes ago, Onoff said:

reminds me I asked laddo to buy more 316 stainless rods, I wonder if he ordered them as he's suffering quite badly from the Covid?

 
Think I’ve got some along with some Fischer glue capsules somewhere that are M12

[Onoff]

1 hour ago, PeterW said:

 
Think I’ve got some along with some Fischer glue capsules somewhere that are M12

 

Of late I've only ever used the Fischer resin in tubes, FIS V 360 S I think it is.

 

I last used glass capsules in the mid 80's from memory. "Special" chisel pointed studs with a turned down end that accepted a hex bit...again from memory! 

[PeterW]

These are ones supplied for installing gates so just use a cross head stud you hit with a hammer and rotate 90

degrees. Will need to check. 

[Onoff]

Washers I have to hand are M16 and M20.

 

ID/OD is 17/30mm and 21/37mm respectively. Forgot to measure the thickness but would guess 1.5. - 2mm

 

[zoothorn]

15 hours ago, PeterW said:

Nope - they won’t cut in as most of the load is in sheer not compression. Worst case you add a round washer the same size as the spacer and the hole at the back, it could also be used as a shim to level all the tubes if needed. 

Hi Peter. Thanks for thoughts.

 

If the consensus is 'sheer' ( roughly understood) then Im happy to go with tubes as is, onto the block. I guess once the 2 pillars are joined on.. the load's then "spread" elieviating my concerns at these 5x points.

 

@Onoff once ledger board fixed up these 5 points are still weak in terms of water ingress, to the block aren't they?

 

Thanks for input so far. Zoot.

[Onoff]

3 minutes ago, zoothorn said:

@Onoff once ledger board fixed up these 5 points are still weak in terms of water ingress, to the block aren't they

 

Yes, they are weak points in terms of potential water ingress, that's a given. Earlier in the thread I mentioned CT1 around the spacer I think and if going for big washer at the back, like being discussed now, suggested Sika EBT (as a high quality, gap filling, flexible sealer that will last).

[Onoff]

On 12/06/2022 at 19:20, Onoff said:

At this point I'd go around the spacer where it projects out of the render with say CT1. 

 

As I said earlier.

[zoothorn]

10 hours ago, Onoff said:

Washers I have to hand are M16 and M20.

 

ID/OD is 17/30mm and 21/37mm respectively. Forgot to measure the thickness but would guess 1.5. - 2mm

 

Hi Onoff,

 

as said I'll go spacer onto block, without washer, after Peter's thoughts. But if you had a few anyway for -shim- duties, on the timber side of things.. that would be great. 

 

So 5x 45mm long tubes, perhaps the metal width as thick as poss, & overall tube width- up to your opinion.

 

Os that ok? I can shim, or grind a bit of render off my biggest 'mump' if needed. Or chisel the bleedin stuff off!

 

Thx Zh

[Onoff]

I'll send you a selection. I'm doing all sorts of cutty, grindy things today so may get them done. 

[zoothorn]

17 minutes ago, Onoff said:

I'll send you a selection. I'm doing all sorts of cutty, grindy things today so may get them done. 

Thanks alot Onoff.

 

The BCO came few days ago & seemed happy, even impressed dare I say, with workshop/ lower room. And the contour rendering said looks good. Pencilled him in for final checks once balcony done. 
 

( General question, perhaps @PeterW ).. I do have considerable black mould around my french doors reveals/ step area. I scrubbed off most in a panic in case he saw, but didn't go upstairs in fact. Is this a Build Control " issue " at all?

 

I also get it @ my same room window sill, reveals.. not as bad tho. Really bad black mould @ lower half of doors tho. 
 

Thanks, zoot.