Building Regs requesting ramp approach

[hmpmarketing]

Hey guys,

 

I am about to complete build, Building Regs came over and inspected, all is fine, except there is one requirement relating to ramp approach for wheelchair access. I have proposed to build the entrance as per attached picture, but building control has said:

 

The proposed stepped approach would not meet the minimum requirement of Approved Document M1, for wheelchair access on a flat site. Ramp approach should be provided in accordance with your Planning approval and Building Regulations approval.

 

Trying the simplest way to overcome this as I dont want a permanent ramp built, any ideas?

 

Thanks again

 

[bassanclan]

Make your level access to a sisde or back door?

 

Build the ramp ot the front door from type1 and slabs laid on sand, get it approved by BC then rip it out and build your preferred steps?

[Jeremy Harris]

I did as suggested above, and built a gentle ramp up from the drive, around the side of the house to the back door.  As there was then a 90 degree turn to get into the back door, I also had to add a flat wheelchair turning space right outside the door.  The door also had to be Part M compliant, and the internal access route from it to the entrance level WC also had to comply with Part M.

 

Doing this allowed me to have stone steps up to the front door from the drive, which look a lot better than a ramp.

 

An alternative (not one I'd do, as I have a friend who's a wheelchair user) is to do as a friend in Yorkshire did with his self-build.  He had York stone steps up to the main entrance, that were not Part M compliant.  To get around this he covered them with polythene and then made a weak concrete mix ramp over the top.  It looked pretty grim, but complied with building regs.  As soon as the house had a completion certificate he just broke up the concrete ramp, revealing his unmarked stone steps...................

[jack]

I can't help, but am interested in how you get on.  

 

My plan is to just build a temporary ramp (possibly even just out of wood), on the basis that building regs don't specify how they're constructed.  The private building control guy is unlikely to care much, but there's always a risk that he'll think I'm taking the mickey. 

[Jeremy Harris]

Just now, jack said:

I can't help, but am interested in how you get on.  

 

My plan is to just build a temporary ramp (possibly even just out of wood), on the basis that building regs don't specify how they've constructed.  The private building control guy is unlikely to care much, but there's always a risk that he'll think I'm taking the mickey. 

 

 

They won't usually pass a ramp that is portable or temporary in appearance, according to the friend mentioned above who made a weak concrete ramp.  He was going to just fabricate a steel ramp (he ran a steel fabrication company at the time) but his building inspector refused to accept it, hence the use of concrete.

[hmpmarketing]

Thanks for the feedback guys.

 

I had a conversation with one of the inspectors (I have a private BC) on a previous visit, and he had suggested a "temporary" structure as @JSHarris mentioned, something like timber and a a concrete mix coat to make it look "real".  I could then rip it apart after completion cert.

 

I have just asked if a wheelchair ramp with grip surface in metal would satisfy the requirements and he said that would be ok too, however they are not cheap!

 

18 minutes ago, jack said:

My plan is to just build a temporary ramp (possibly even just out of wood), on the basis that building regs don't specify how they're constructed.  The private building control guy is unlikel

 

Maybe I will just use some of the polystyrene laying around and build a ramp with it and cover it up with rapid setting cement !

 

 

 

Edited May 18, 2017 by hmpmarketing

[ragg987]

Maybe do both steps and (permanent) ramp? e.g. a ramp to the side of the top step? A ramp is not just for wheelchair users, it also aids infirm walkers.

[ragg987]

And I suspect we will all get to the point of needing one in the future...

[jack]

31 minutes ago, ragg987 said:

Maybe do both steps and (permanent) ramp? e.g. a ramp to the side of the top step? A ramp is not just for wheelchair users, it also aids infirm walkers.

 

Due to poor planning on my part, it isn't really feasible to have a permanent ramp. There's a single step up that's maybe 80mm, so no problem at all for those unsteady on their feet.

 

1 hour ago, JSHarris said:

They won't usually pass a ramp that is portable or temporary in appearance, according to the friend mentioned above who made a weak concrete ramp.  He was going to just fabricate a steel ramp (he ran a steel fabrication company at the time) but his building inspector refused to accept it, hence the use of concrete.

 

Yes, fully anticipating this response.  But if I start by proposing something completely portable, I may end up having to do less than if I start with something halfway decent.

[TerryE]

I can't recall where but IIRC, elsewhere in the regs there's a guideline that the FFL should be a minimum 150mm above ground-level and that's what we've got, so whatever you do you will normally have 150mm step from GL to FFL.  The maximum "level" gradient is 1:20 and that means a 3m ramp.  You see lots of those on new estate developments, don't you?

[jack]

15 minutes ago, TerryE said:

The maximum "level" gradient is 1:20 and that means a 3m ramp.  You see lots of those on new estate developments, don't you?

 

 

Interesting general reading on DPCs here, albeit not in the context of building control on new houses 

 

[TerryE]

Thanks Jack. The link just shows how Part C and Part M are really inconsistent, IMO.  I personally can understand the sense of future proofing a house internally for access as changes to the interior are a big deal.  However the requirement to put in a mandatory access ramp for a private dwelling is just daft in my view.  For the vast majority of home owners / occupiers it is totally unnecessary and is trivial to add if and when it does become a necessity.

 

In our case our GFL toilet is off the utility room adjacent to the rear door.  Our rear garden is quite shallow (7-10m) and rises up from G/L around the house some ½m at the boundary.  We have a concrete skirt around the house (mainly to protect the EPS of the MBC warm slab).   My current thinking is to step the garden up 15cm at the edge of this skit and deck the concrete skirt so that the garden and decking is pretty much flush with the house FFL.  Drainage /damp isn't a problem since the actual drains are at GL.  Mobility access will down he side of the house and through the rear entrance.

[Temp]

Our bco said it would be ok to have a level access from the car parking space to the front door so we created a parking space on the same level and have a flight of about 4 steps down to the rest of the garden. In effect we drive up our disabled access ramp. 

 

 

[Ferdinand]

@hmpmarketing,

 

One neat, and adjustable later should you wish, idea is to use what I call "Patio Feet" made by a company called Wallbarn - as below. They call them "Adjustable Support Pads".

 

 

They are intended for supporting decks and paving on roofing, or raised off the ground, and cost from about a £2 for fixed low ones to about £5-10 each (depending on the height), and support up to hundreds of kg. IIRC mine were about £4-5 each, and I used them at corner joints between pavers.

 

There are shims available (or we can make our own) which are designed to correct angles, but could be used to create angles for your ramp. For steeper angles one side of the support pad (which is a separate unit to the screw) could be cut off using a saw appropriate to tough plastic.

 

Given appropriate pavers (I used 3x2 pressed council slabs for my patio), a ramp could be created that can be turned into generous steps by adjusting a few supports, or vice-versa should you want steps now and a wheelchair or run-down-the-world buggy later.

 

The one proviso is that these require, or require you to create, a firm base .. though that could be made from a timber framework or MOT Type I (is that the one that turns into a compacted pan?). I guess that those eggcrate-full-of-gravel low impact foundations may potentially be a suitable base. Or breezeblocks bedded 25-50mm into the ground.

 

There is a tradeoff between the size and strength of slab vs qty of patio feet. Not suitable for mosaic pavements.

 

I like that I can raise my patio should I ever need to get underneath for maintenance.

Ferdinand

 

 

 

Edited May 20, 2017 by Ferdinand

[NSS]

Sorry, but can I ask what's wrong with having a ramp/level access? We designed it in from the outset and cannot imagine why we'd want to replace it with steps and, as mentioned earlier in the thread, many of us may need such access in years to come (never mind for visitors).

[Gone West]

9 hours ago, NSS said:

Sorry, but can I ask what's wrong with having a ramp/level access? We designed it in from the outset and cannot imagine why we'd want to replace it with steps and, as mentioned earlier in the thread, many of us may need such access in years to come (never mind for visitors).

+1 We did the same and designed the access with a ramp, not difficult in our case. We have also put thought into future proofing the interior.

[Onoff]

45 minutes ago, PeterStarck said:

+1 We did the same and designed the access with a ramp, not difficult in our case. We have also put thought into future proofing the interior.

 

I've got to ask...what happens when you're too old and decrepit to use the spiral stairs? Does the lift get fitted?

[Barney12]

6 minutes ago, Onoff said:

 

I've got to ask...what happens when you're too old and decrepit to use the spiral stairs? Does the lift get fitted?

 

No they sell your house to pay for the care fees 

[Stones]

12 hours ago, NSS said:

Sorry, but can I ask what's wrong with having a ramp/level access? We designed it in from the outset and cannot imagine why we'd want to replace it with steps and, as mentioned earlier in the thread, many of us may need such access in years to come (never mind for visitors).

 

We also found ramped access very useful when the kids were young / were using prams or buggies. It's one of those things that when introduced, I was very resistant as I preferred the look of steps, but level access, if thought out and designed in doesn't have to look bad, and can enhance the look of an entrance.  

 

I would agree that poorly designed or 'afterthought' ramps can be a bit of an eyesore.

[Onoff]

It'd be bloody useful for Tesco home deliveries too! Good access shouldn't be underestimated.

 

The van can barely reverse up our drive then the 15 or so crates need to be trollied / manhandled to our kitchen door at the back of the house. It's across the unmade drive, up one step to the patio, up a step and over a door threshhold then over another threshhold and down a step into the kitchen.

 

Going to be a pig when I'm in a wheelchair!

[Gone West]

7 hours ago, Onoff said:

 

I've got to ask...what happens when you're too old and decrepit to use the spiral stairs? Does the lift get fitted?

I did think about an electric lift but decided I'll sleep in the study instead.

[NSS]

12 hours ago, PeterStarck said:

+1 We did the same and designed the access with a ramp, not difficult in our case. We have also put thought into future proofing the interior.

Likewise, in fact my wife's health (and our advancing years) has heavily influenced the design, inside and out. We intend this to be the house we live in for the rest of our days, so it was imperative that we considered how it would adapt to meet our changing needs as time passes and health/mobility deteriorates. 

[Jeremy Harris]

I also decided that future-proofing the interior was a good idea, both because I have a wheelchair-using friend and because my father was a wheelchair user and I remember the hassle we had to convert the house I grew up in to accept wheelchair use.  The main things I did, apart from the wheelchair ramp, turning space and entrance, was to fit wide (33") doors everywhere, with completely flush door thresholds.  The extra few inches makes all the difference to a wheelchair use, and saves scraped knuckles.

 

I also fitted hidden hard points behind the wall alongside the stairs, along with allowing extra space at the bottom of the (straight) stair run to allow a stair lift to be fitted if need be.  I also arranged my study to be next to the downstairs WC, so that it could be converted to a downstairs bedroom, with an en suite alongside, if either of us was unable to use a stair lift.

Edited June 2, 2017 by JSHarris

[NSS]

Whilst our master bedroom is upstairs, we have (as closely as possible) replicated this downstairs so that we can switch to ground floor living if/when it becomes necessary. We also have gone for wide doors everywhere, no thresholds internally (Karndean flooring throughout), flush thresholds on all external doors (including onto patio/deck), lowered kitchen worktops on handleless cupboards, no wall cupboards, eye-level (actually slightly lower than normal) ovens with slide and hide doors, a four burner hob with all four arranged in a single row so no need to reach across to back burners, midi height fridge and freezers (no point having fulĺ height if you can't reach the top shelves), inward opening windows with the handles positioned low on the frame, low tray walk in showers with low level shower controls, simple push button privacy locks on the bathroom doors and a fully open plan kitchen/dining/living space.

[PeterW]

8 hours ago, NSS said:

Whilst our master bedroom is upstairs, we have (as closely as possible) replicated this downstairs so that we can switch to ground floor living if/when it becomes necessary. We also have gone for wide doors everywhere, no thresholds internally (Karndean flooring throughout), flush thresholds on all external doors (including onto patio/deck), lowered kitchen worktops on handleless cupboards, no wall cupboards, eye-level (actually slightly lower than normal) ovens with slide and hide doors, a four burner hob with all four arranged in a single row so no need to reach across to back burners, midi height fridge and freezers (no point having fulĺ height if you can't reach the top shelves), inward opening windows with the handles positioned low on the frame, low tray walk in showers with low level shower controls, simple push button privacy locks on the bathroom doors and a fully open plan kitchen/dining/living space.

 

If you look at that list there Ian nothing that screams out of the ordinary yet it's so elegantly designed to make a difference for you in the future. 

 

It always amazes me when I walk round new houses that don't have  even the simplest of adaptablity options included.