pilgrim Posted April 23, 2022 Share Posted April 23, 2022 My underfloor heating pipes are lifting up a bit especially at the ends of the runs. I have not filled the manifold with water yet. They push back down easily, and will be held down by the concrete but do you think it is worth adding staples to them as well to make sure they all set at the right depth? has anyone else had this problem with their pipes? Ive googled for solutions and not found much helpful! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorfun Posted April 23, 2022 Share Posted April 23, 2022 our liquid screeder said the egg crate type system for ufh pipes is notorious for pipes lifting up. I would suggest that those pipes will be lifted up with the screed and would need to be held down somehow. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nod Posted April 23, 2022 Share Posted April 23, 2022 As above Five with traditional screed But will lift with liquid screed For what it costs I would add some staples 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pilgrim Posted April 23, 2022 Author Share Posted April 23, 2022 Thanks, hopefully it'll hold down ok got the screed being poured in 10 days time! damn youtube tutorials dont warn you about that happening! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nod Posted April 23, 2022 Share Posted April 23, 2022 1 hour ago, pilgrim said: Thanks, hopefully it'll hold down ok got the screed being poured in 10 days time! damn youtube tutorials dont warn you about that happening! Liquid screed is a great innovation As a business I’ve only tiled around 50 liquid screeds But I’ve known two lift Not great odds Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conor Posted April 24, 2022 Share Posted April 24, 2022 Fill the loops and pressurise and most of that will drop down. Is it on top of insualtion or concrete? If insulation, hammer down some staples at the bends won't take long. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pilgrim Posted April 24, 2022 Author Share Posted April 24, 2022 10 hours ago, nod said: Liquid screed is a great innovation As a business I’ve only tiled around 50 liquid screeds But I’ve known two lift Not great odds I've opted for a traditional sand and cement screed which will have engineered wood on top so hopefully I'll avoid any further headaches with it! 5 hours ago, Conor said: Fill the loops and pressurise and most of that will drop down. Is it on top of insualtion or concrete? If insulation, hammer down some staples at the bends won't take long. It is on PIR insulation so the staples should hold well, Ive ordered some staples which should arrive tomorrow. Todays job is connecting up the manifold, hopefully it'll go smoothly! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorfun Posted April 24, 2022 Share Posted April 24, 2022 52 minutes ago, pilgrim said: It is on PIR insulation so the staples should hold well, Ive ordered some staples which should arrive tomorrow. Todays job is connecting up the manifold, hopefully it'll go smoothly! interest to know why you used egg crate rather than staples in the first place if it's on PIR? they're a lot cheaper and not hard to fit. myself and my wife did ours in the basement and was actually quite enjoyable! 🙂 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pocster Posted April 24, 2022 Share Posted April 24, 2022 25 minutes ago, Thorfun said: actually quite enjoyable! You need to get a life 😀 Though if you do ‘enjoy’ mundane monotonous tasks you are welcome to visit ( work ) on my site . 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russell griffiths Posted April 24, 2022 Share Posted April 24, 2022 Personally I would. buy a staple gun and 2-3 thousand staples. rip out the egg box and throw it in a skip, staple the first 3-4 rows, rip out next lot of egg crates and repeat. do it right now before it turns into a drama with 20 tonnes of screed sitting there. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyT Posted April 24, 2022 Share Posted April 24, 2022 How did you install pipework? did you use a decoiler? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pilgrim Posted April 24, 2022 Author Share Posted April 24, 2022 8 hours ago, Thorfun said: interest to know why you used egg crate rather than staples in the first place if it's on PIR? they're a lot cheaper and not hard to fit. myself and my wife did ours in the basement and was actually quite enjoyable! 🙂 It was on the advice of some builder friends that said it would be easier... but yeah if I was doing it again I wouldn't bother. 6 minutes ago, TonyT said: How did you install pipework? did you use a decoiler? Yeah I used a pipe decoiler the pipes still seemed to get a bit twisted up though, I guess I need more practice!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperJohnG Posted April 24, 2022 Share Posted April 24, 2022 Ceasing the opportunity...I have a staple gun for sale. 🤣 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nickfromwales Posted April 25, 2022 Share Posted April 25, 2022 8 hours ago, SuperJohnG said: Ceasing the opportunity...I have a staple gun for sale. 🤣 Advertise it on the Marketplace here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nickfromwales Posted April 25, 2022 Share Posted April 25, 2022 On 23/04/2022 at 18:06, pilgrim said: They push back down easily, and will be held down by the concrete Screed will get under the pipes as it’s being laid, even with sand and cement “traditional” screeds, and they will lift to the surface. You have one single shot at getting this sorted and if you do not take it, more fool you I’m sorry. I’m with Russell, rip the lot out and staple down with a few thousand staples. If you do this strategically you can leave the pipe down and slide the trays out. Do it section by sections and it won’t get out of hand. If you do not want to remove the trays then you will need to go to 15-16mm nail clips with the nails pulled out and replaced with No.3.5x35mm screws AFAIC as the plastic staples will not push through the plastic trays. Is this Perez-al-pert pipe, or JG speedfit / Uponor / other non lay-flat pipe? Was it like a spring coming off the decoiler? Sort this NOW or you’ll live to regret it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonner Posted April 25, 2022 Share Posted April 25, 2022 21 minutes ago, Nickfromwales said: If you do not want to remove the trays then you will need to go to 15-16mm nail clips with the nails pulled out and replaced with No.3.5x35mm screws AFAIC as the plastic staples will not push through the plastic trays. Alternatively, drill or punch holes in the trays and push the staples through. I would leave the trays in place and add lots staples rather than disturb everything. Good luck! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onoff Posted April 25, 2022 Share Posted April 25, 2022 I used the egg crate type but the red Polypipe panels. They grip the 16mm pipe like sh!t to a blanket and didn't particularly lift at all. I did then lay A142 mesh over the whole lot which had a weighting effect of course. 100mm wet concrete over the top. No problems with de-coiling either, even with my homemade rig. Video: The jury's out on whether I'd use these panels again. There is a saving in concrete and it's super quick to lay the pipes. The resultant slab, though I'm sure strong enough, doesn't "ring" like a solid slab. I don't know, maybe having all those hollows in it is a good thing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperJohnG Posted April 25, 2022 Share Posted April 25, 2022 1 hour ago, Nickfromwales said: Advertise it on the Marketplace here I did already actually some time ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nickfromwales Posted April 25, 2022 Share Posted April 25, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, Bonner said: Alternatively, drill or punch holes in the trays and push the staples through. I would leave the trays in place and add lots staples rather than disturb everything. Good luck! I’d rather not have all the air pockets / voids / weaker reduced qty of screed caused by the castellated trays. These are the last option reserved for true DIYers ( to ease the install ). Edited April 25, 2022 by Nickfromwales 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pilgrim Posted April 25, 2022 Author Share Posted April 25, 2022 1 hour ago, Nickfromwales said: Screed will get under the pipes as it’s being laid, even with sand and cement “traditional” screeds, and they will lift to the surface. You have one single shot at getting this sorted and if you do not take it, more fool you I’m sorry. I’m with Russell, rip the lot out and staple down with a few thousand staples. If you do this strategically you can leave the pipe down and slide the trays out. Do it section by sections and it won’t get out of hand. If you do not want to remove the trays then you will need to go to 15-16mm nail clips with the nails pulled out and replaced with No.3.5x35mm screws AFAIC as the plastic staples will not push through the plastic trays. Is this Perez-al-pert pipe, or JG speedfit / Uponor / other non lay-flat pipe? Was it like a spring coming off the decoiler? Sort this NOW or you’ll live to regret it. These are the prowarm pex-al pipes, yeah it was a bit spring like coming off the decoiler. My staples arrived yesterday so I'll sort it out today hopefully. Then I'll go dump the egg crates on my friends drive!! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nickfromwales Posted April 25, 2022 Share Posted April 25, 2022 2 minutes ago, pilgrim said: These are the prowarm pex-al pipes, yeah it was a bit spring like coming off the decoiler. My staples arrived yesterday so I'll sort it out today hopefully. Then I'll go dump the egg crates on my friends drive!! It may feel like a pita now, but if those pipes rise during screening you’ll be in a totally irrecoverable world of pain. Trust us on this one Do you have a screed company organised? My guy is absolutely mustard and travels. When they’re done you can paint it green and get the snooker balls out. 👌. He’s laid floors for other folk here. If you want his details, send me a PM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pilgrim Posted April 25, 2022 Author Share Posted April 25, 2022 5 minutes ago, Nickfromwales said: It may feel like a pita now, but if those pipes rise during screening you’ll be in a totally irrecoverable world of pain. Trust us on this one Do you have a screed company organised? My guy is absolutely mustard and travels. When they’re done you can paint it green and get the snooker balls out. 👌. He’s laid floors for other folk here. If you want his details, send me a PM. I trust you guys! I will get it sorted before the screed goes down. Luckily Ive got a few days! Thanks I tried your guy but he said he would be quite expensive as the area is only 30m2 so quite a small job for him, ive got a local company coming to do it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onoff Posted April 25, 2022 Share Posted April 25, 2022 37 minutes ago, Nickfromwales said: I’d rather not have all the air pockets / voids / weaker reduced qty of screed caused by the castellated trays. These are the last option reserved for true DIYers ( to ease the install ). Blame Peter! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nickfromwales Posted April 25, 2022 Share Posted April 25, 2022 4 hours ago, Onoff said: Blame Peter! I’ll get right onto it 😎. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterW Posted April 25, 2022 Share Posted April 25, 2022 1 minute ago, Nickfromwales said: I’ll get right onto it 😎. They worked for him - leave him alone ..!! 🤣 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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