Siberian larch vs sweet chestnut cladding

[PeachyBeechy]

Hi,

I wander if anyone can help.

We have our tf up and bricked/blocked around. We've moved onto buying the cladding. We're having horizontal sawn weatherboard. We plan on leaving it untreated to silver naturally. We originally planned on siberian larch but on top of brexit/covid price hikes there's now less of it around due to sanctions on Russia. We've been offered sweet chestnut from a local sawmill at approximately 30 percent less than siberian larch.

 

We're attracted by the sweet chestnut being local (british), not giving our money to Russia and of course the price difference!

 

I'm not sure if anyone has experience of both timbers left in its natural state or if it's a good substitute? I welcome your views.

Thank you for reading. 

[Russell griffiths]

Have you looked at British larch, or western red cedar or Douglas fir. 

Depends if your looking at rustic finish or sharp clean edges. 

Ive recently seen British ash that looked good. 

[jack]

10 minutes ago, Russell griffiths said:

Have you looked at British larch

 

We got samples of Scottish and Siberian larch and left them outside for a few months. The Scottish stuff cupped badly across its width, whereas the Siberian stuff remained almost completely square.

 

Perhaps we were unlucky, but unless a very rustic look is desired, I wouldn't be considering Scottish larch.

[Bitpipe]

Bit left field but we're having to replace our failed render system (carrier board issue) and are thinking of a timber style finish as an alternative.

 

I'm considering Hardie plank - it's a cellulose fibre / cement product and the samples I have look decent. We're thinking of a vertical application but it works in a shiplap horizontal style also.

[markc]

20 minutes ago, jack said:

 

We got samples of Scottish and Siberian larch and left them outside for a few months. The Scottish stuff cupped badly across its width, whereas the Siberian stuff remained almost completely square.

 

Perhaps we were unlucky, but unless a very rustic look is desired, I wouldn't be considering Scottish larch.

Cupping really depends on how and when the timber was cut.

quarter sawn timber will not cup at all but doesn’t look as nice grain wise, flat sawn timber is for aesthetics and fantastic grain pattern but will not stay flat left on it’s own.

[jack]

5 minutes ago, markc said:

Cupping really depends on how and when the timber was cut.

quarter sawn timber will not cup at all but doesn’t look as nice grain wise, flat sawn timber is for aesthetics and fantastic grain pattern but will not stay flat left on it’s own.

 

The Siberian larch wasn't quarter sawn, it was flat sawn like the Scottish stuff. Same supplier (Russwood), same machined profile. 

 

When we were first making inquiries, the supplier specifically warned that there'd be more movement over time with the Scottish stuff, and I have no reason to doubt that.

[SteamyTea]

As Siberian Larch grows on the Finnish boarder, do the Fins sell it.

Get in quick before they join NATO.

[Bitpipe]

1 hour ago, SteamyTea said:

As Siberian Larch grows on the Finnish boarder, do the Fins sell it.

Get in quick before they join NATO.

 

As we used to say in Derry in the 80's - Buy Now While Shops Last!

 

Would love natural wood but going to start by baselining a composite plank and then seeing what the cost difference is. Also the fire retardant rating of the composite planks is attractive from an insurance purpose.

[JohnMo]

Our Scottish Larch has been on for around 11 months now and has stays remarkable straight.

 

So no complaints, photo was taken a couple of weeks ago after oiling.

 

About 30 roads miles from woods, to saw mill and my house.

 

 

Edited April 12, 2022 by JohnMo
Missed word

[Bitpipe]

29 minutes ago, JohnMo said:

Our Scottish Larch has been on for around 11 months now and has stays remarkable straight.

 

So no complaints, photo was taken a couple of weeks ago after oiling.

 

About 30 roads miles from woods, to saw mill and my house.

 

 

Beautiful.

[PeachyBeechy]

Thank you all for your replies. 

 

We have considered British larch but think it poses a risk for movement as we're going for the rustic sawn look.

 

I do think JohnMo's looks very good vertically though. 

 

We've discounted hardie plank even though its no maintenance and maybe the sensible choice, mostly because we like the rustic look of real timber.

 

Thanks Bitpipe, you're probably right, hesitation is the mother of all f*** ups!

 

I'll look into ash as suggested above. 

 

Has anyone used or seen weathered sweet chestnut?

[HerbJ]

Yes, we have sweet chestnut cladding that was treated with two coats of OSMO before installation, so it has not weathered too much in 5 years. 

 

It's performed OK and we are still pleased with the choice.

 

The attached pictures are from December 2016, when it was completed. I will take some current and close-up pictures tomorrow.

 

Edited April 12, 2022 by HerbJ

[Miek]

From a durability viewpoint do not use ash, it great indoors and very strong but rots very fast outside. 

 

Larch and chestnut have good durability,  I've used Welsh Larch local to me and its only cupped slightly, just make sure not to use any planks with sapwood in as the sapwood doesn't have the same resin content and rots more easily.

 

Chestnut was traditionally used for roofing shingles and fences so it's well known to last a long time..

 

 

[Modernista]

After going round in circles on wood cladding choices and getting very close to ordering Siberian Larch we've just settled on heat-treated radiata pine (Abodo). It's from NZ so can't beat home grown on wood-miles -and may be on the dark side colour-wise for some tastes but we've been worried about wetting and splashing in our house-with-no-gutters. We're having it stained a straw colour and it's to contrast with black-painted brickwork, so fingers crossed. Will post a pic when it's up.

[Rishard]

I’ve only really used Siberian larch and never Scottish. Mainly due to the supplier I use but they do produce good quality profiles. Duffields timber in North Yorkshire if you wanted to check them out. They might not come in the cheapest but always good to compare costs. I recently re-clad a clients gable with thermowood ( radiata pine) I’ve done plenty of jobs with it now. What I will say is it is super stable… I did some vertical shadow gap cladding for a shed 3 years ago with some square cut butt joints meeting on the counter batons and the stuff hasn’t moved 1mm. It works really well for contemporary looking finishes I would say. When I used it with a more traditional feather edge profile, I was a bit shocked at the grain or more the knot quality of the wood. It’s not particularly attractive when looking at such wide boards I don’t think. One good thing is it stays where you fix it. The initial colour is quite soft unlike fresh larch but un-treated they all end up that lovely silver colour.

 

Not sure why I can’t turn these pictures the right way round. But this is 3 years apart. Thermowood. I have tons of pictures of western red cedar jobs, thermowood and larch if I can find a way to turn them the right way round on here? 

 

 

 

 

Edited April 12, 2022 by Rishard

[SteamyTea]

 

 

[Rishard]

Thanks @SteamyTea is there a feature somewhere to do that? 

[SteamyTea]

45 minutes ago, Rishard said:

Thanks @SteamyTea is there a feature somewhere to do that? 

Not on he forum.

I use a small, portable, graphics program called Irfanview.

Copy and paste the image into the program.

Press L to rotate left, and R to rotate right.

Then just select, copy and paste it back into the forum text box.

Takes a few seconds.

Edited April 13, 2022 by SteamyTea

[PeachyBeechy]

Thanks for that Rishard. Looks good in narrow boards.

 

Herbj, thank you for your pictures. Looks very smart newly fitted. It would be good to see it aged if you can post a recent picture. But we are leaning towards the Chestnut. 

 

Thanks Miek for your experience of Larch and Ash. I didn't think about chestnut being used for shingles, of course it must be pretty durable. 

[HerbJ]

As promised, photos from this morning. 

 

All the cladding was treated with OSMO UV Protection Oil before installation.

[Thorfun]

probably doesn't help as you can't get hold of it but we were lucky and got our Siberian Larch just before the war kicked off. Chippies started putting it up this week and it looks fabulous.

 

 

got an amazing price for it from Jewsons. saved thousands over Silva/Russwood etc. 

[PeachyBeechy]

Thanks Herbj, still looks very neat and doesn't look like it's moved much if at all.

 

Nice thanks Thorfun. We can get hold of it it's just more money than the sweet chestnut. It might leave me moremoneg for the landscaping pot! I'll try jewsons.

 

Happy Easter, thank you all.

[R2021]

On 12/04/2022 at 22:49, Rishard said:

I recently re-clad a clients gable with thermowood ( radiata pine) I’ve done plenty of jobs with it now.

@RishardI've just bought 100m2 of Thermowood which I'm installing soon. Do you have any tips? It is T&G with shadow gap profile

• I read you butted up the boards tight against each other. Is that because there is no movement in Thermowood? I was a planning to leave a couple mm gap at the T&G and where two boards meet at a counter batten, but maybe I don't need to.
• Did you pre-drill the screw holes? I've heard Thermowood is brittle
• Did you use one or two screws side by side to secure each board to the counter batten?
• Did you put DPC between the board and the counter batten? Russwood's battening systems has this but I went to my local timber yard for the Thermowood and battens.

[Rishard]

My counter battoning is concrete screwed if going into blockwork. There is no need for dpc, I’ve never heard of dpc behind cladding as it is usually ventilated to some degree. Often there is a breathable membrane when applied over timber frame ect. I fix the cladding with stainless steel pins out of a nail gun. Either surface on wide boards or secret nailed on small profile boards. There is almost no movement across the cladding width or length so I wouldn’t worry about movement with thermowood. 

[ToughButterCup]

 

On 12/04/2022 at 09:15, PeachyBeechy said:

...

I'm not sure if anyone has experience of both timbers left in its natural state or if it's a good substitute?

...

 

Yes.

They both weather to a beautiful silver colour. The chestnut starts whiter than the Larch, but they both end up roughly the same colour.

The larch we had (about £4k's worth) attracts everyone's attention now, and all the more attention when I tell them that - now - it's contraband.

They both weather slightly differently according to exposure to the sun, prevailing wind and rain. 

 

Any Siberian Larch that exists must (ought?) to have been bought before hostilities commenced, hence I could only recently order 200 LM of Larch (144*14, unsorted, sqaure edged)  at £7.39 per LM from ProWood in Wigan.  I wanted 4m lengths - but all of that's gone and no more available. 3M lengths only. Annoying.

 

Original price?  £3.76 per LM. ( 2 years ago)

 

Chestnut good substitute? Yes. If you can get it at all.  But costs more than Larch