CharlieKLP Posted February 13, 2022 Share Posted February 13, 2022 How can I either persuade them not to build such monstrosities or feel better about contributing to the awful things they want to build? This is particularly strong in the self build market, I just want to design people beautiful houses, but no one seems to want that, why? All they seem to want is a vanity project where they design their own houses with no design skill or knowledge. How can I improve things? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nod Posted February 13, 2022 Share Posted February 13, 2022 I can see where you are coming from But the self builder should end up with a home that they like Not what an Architect thinks looks right 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nod Posted February 13, 2022 Share Posted February 13, 2022 3 minutes ago, nod said: I can see where you are coming from But the self builder should end up with a home that they like Not what an Architect thinks looks right Just to add We new we would be selling our first build after three years Our Architecht talked us out of our first choice window colour Telling us while it was in Our property would look dated in five years Also the gf layout wast our choice But he was right on both Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlieKLP Posted February 13, 2022 Author Share Posted February 13, 2022 5 minutes ago, nod said: I can see where you are coming from But the self builder should end up with a home that they like Not what an Architect thinks looks right Do you think there’s any way I could persuade people to be more open to nicer design, like how you present the design or something like that. I sometimes think I don’t explain things well enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jayc89 Posted February 13, 2022 Share Posted February 13, 2022 For me it’s been a real struggle finding an architect who had their own ideas rather than providing an initial bland proposal and then just making the changes I suggest. As a consumer, I don’t want that. Just because something makes sense in my mind, doesn’t mean it will work in practice, and it’s their expertise that I’m paying for. We did find a really good architect a few years ago now who produced some plans for our previous house, but unfortunately he’s since retired. The last couple I’ve worked with have been a real struggle. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nod Posted February 13, 2022 Share Posted February 13, 2022 I think a nice design doesn’t have to cost anymore I like a gallery landing as it gives a wow factor Many just seem hung up with bedroom space I do think that if you are set in your ideas An Architecht is probably not for you We told our Architecht what we wanted and he came up with three designs I’d like to think we have the best bits of all three 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlieKLP Posted February 13, 2022 Author Share Posted February 13, 2022 1 minute ago, jayc89 said: For me it’s been a real struggle finding an architect who had their own ideas rather than providing an initial bland proposal and then just making the changes I suggest. As a consumer, I don’t want that. Just because something makes sense in my mind, doesn’t mean it will work in practice, and it’s their expertise that I’m paying for. We did find a really good architect a few years ago now who produced some plans for our previous house, but unfortunately he’s since retired. The last couple I’ve worked with have been a real struggle. It gives me hope that people like you are out there! I’m not looking to force my ideas on someone, I just want people open to designing together. Every time people draw me things to trace a part of me dies inside. I try to fix things they send me, but you can fix things that are wrong from the start. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteamyTea Posted February 13, 2022 Share Posted February 13, 2022 Tell people to stop watching those 'Grand Design' type shows. And fiddly, unnecessary details costs much more. Just ask customers to take/find some pictures of places they like, then work from there. But what do I know, I live in a grey house, with a corridor for a living room. But it is 2 minutes from A30, so can get to some great places in minutes. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ETC Posted February 13, 2022 Share Posted February 13, 2022 44 minutes ago, CharlieKLP said: How can I either persuade them not to build such monstrosities or feel better about contributing to the awful things they want to build? This is particularly strong in the self build market, I just want to design people beautiful houses, but no one seems to want that, why? All they seem to want is a vanity project where they design their own houses with no design skill or knowledge. How can I improve things? @CharlieKLP It may be that the consumer is duped into hiring someone they thought was an architect but turns out to be no more than a plan tracer who isn’t able to design. The public need to be made aware of the difference and that good design should not cost any more. I think that the average consumer sees the initial cost of appointing a registered architect and would rather go to a cheap plan drawer and spend the fee difference on a nice big TV. If you pay peanuts you get monkeys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterW Posted February 13, 2022 Share Posted February 13, 2022 1 hour ago, CharlieKLP said: All they seem to want is a vanity project where they design their own houses with no design skill or knowledge. How can I improve things? 33 minutes ago, CharlieKLP said: Every time people draw me things to trace a part of me dies inside. Not wanting to rain on your parade, but your comments actually are the reason a lot of people don’t like architects - it comes as a surprise that you’re not the only ones who can draw and use a pencil …. Some people are self building because they want what they want - down to design. What you see as vanity projects may well be what they want it to look like. It may not be to your taste, but given that it is their money, why is that a problem ..?? Yes, tell them where you could improve the design but telling them their ideas are crap is not going to win you customers. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedreamer Posted February 13, 2022 Share Posted February 13, 2022 1 hour ago, CharlieKLP said: How can I either persuade them not to build such monstrosities or feel better about contributing to the awful things they want to build? This is particularly strong in the self build market, I just want to design people beautiful houses, but no one seems to want that, why? All they seem to want is a vanity project where they design their own houses with no design skill or knowledge. How can I improve things? Your comments apply to pretty much any area where an individual is seeking professional services. We all want what is best for our clients and they have engaged you as the 'expert' to provide professional services. It's easier in some professions where you have a long term relationship with a client to become a 'trusted advisor'. If you have not worked with a client for long, building up trust as quickly as possible is what you need to do. This book has some tips to do this. I often adopt the Columbo approach with clients. https://www.waterstones.com/book/the-trusted-advisor/david-h-maister/robert-galford/9780743207768 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ETC Posted February 13, 2022 Share Posted February 13, 2022 I 23 minutes ago, PeterW said: Not wanting to rain on your parade, but your comments actually are the reason a lot of people don’t like architects - it comes as a surprise that you’re not the only ones who can draw and use a pencil …. Some people are self building because they want what they want - down to design. What you see as vanity projects may well be what they want it to look like. It may not be to your taste, but given that it is their money, why is that a problem ..?? Yes, tell them where you could improve the design but telling them their ideas are crap is not going to win you customers. I really do believe that most people wouldn’t know an architect from a hole in the hedge. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pocster Posted February 13, 2022 Share Posted February 13, 2022 54 minutes ago, SteamyTea said: Tell people to stop watching those 'Grand Design' type shows. And fiddly, unnecessary details costs much more. Just ask customers to take/find some pictures of places they like, then work from there. But what do I know, I live in a grey house, with a corridor for a living room. But it is 2 minutes from A30, so can get to some great places in minutes. No . This is what you want . A curved roof when a ‘normal ‘ one would do . A catilevered window when a support will do . A curved glass wall for ‘effect ‘ when a normal wall will do . A ‘mortgage free ‘ build that ends up with a 400k mortgage . K . Mccloud distain with ‘failure ‘ music before a commercial break . Followed by the upbeat musical joys of success . This is what people want . 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlieKLP Posted February 13, 2022 Author Share Posted February 13, 2022 47 minutes ago, ETC said: @CharlieKLP It may be that the consumer is duped into hiring someone they thought was an architect but turns out to be no more than a plan tracer who isn’t able to design. The public need to be made aware of the difference and that good design should not cost any more. I think that the average consumer sees the initial cost of appointing a registered architect and would rather go to a cheap plan drawer and spend the fee difference on a nice big TV. If you pay peanuts you get monkeys. Where I work it costs the same for a technician or a designer, or an architect who designs (ie me) Maybe we need to be clearer about who gets what service? It just feels like everyone who self builds doesn’t want a designer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteamyTea Posted February 13, 2022 Share Posted February 13, 2022 2 minutes ago, pocster said: This is what people want . Chav 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteamyTea Posted February 13, 2022 Share Posted February 13, 2022 1 minute ago, CharlieKLP said: It just feels like everyone who self builds doesn’t want a designer. Offer a QS and PM service, with the design thrown in for free. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlieKLP Posted February 13, 2022 Author Share Posted February 13, 2022 3 minutes ago, Thedreamer said: Your comments apply to pretty much any area where an individual is seeking professional services. We all want what is best for our clients and they have engaged you as the 'expert' to provide professional services. It's easier in some professions where you have a long term relationship with a client to become a 'trusted advisor'. If you have not worked with a client for long, building up trust as quickly as possible is what you need to do. This book has some tips to do this. I often adopt the Columbo approach with clients. https://www.waterstones.com/book/the-trusted-advisor/david-h-maister/robert-galford/9780743207768 this is amazing, exactly what I’m looking for! it’s not often you get actual help on a forum ty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlieKLP Posted February 13, 2022 Author Share Posted February 13, 2022 Just now, SteamyTea said: Offer a QS and PM service, with the design thrown in for free. lol aah no that’s the worst, I want people to value design. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IanR Posted February 13, 2022 Share Posted February 13, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, CharlieKLP said: such monstrosities 1 hour ago, CharlieKLP said: particularly strong in the self build market, 1 hour ago, CharlieKLP said: All they seem to want is a vanity project where they design their own houses with no design skill or knowledge. 1 hour ago, CharlieKLP said: I just want to design people beautiful houses I'm not really sure who you think you are. From what you have said previously, you are an employee of someone else's Architectural practice, has an actual house yet been built that is your sole design, and not one that the partners have been consulted on. What makes you think you are the arbiter of what a "beautiful" house is? Isn't that for the person paying the bill and choosing to live in the house to decide. House design is a compromise, and one that first and foremost has to be financially viable. There's no point building a "pretty" house in suburbia if what makes it pretty knocks 30m² off the floor plan, a bedroom and £150K off the value. For many plots "beautiful" is down the priority list, and rightly so. You say you want to head out on your own and have the self build community finance your new business venture. However, you appear to have nothing but contempt for them. 1 hour ago, CharlieKLP said: How can I improve things? A little humility, and listen to what the paying customer wants. Edited February 13, 2022 by IanR 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pocster Posted February 13, 2022 Share Posted February 13, 2022 (edited) 4 minutes ago, SteamyTea said: Chav What I summarise is “ The grand design “ . It’s any of : Architect who lives out his/her dreams with clients money Client with more money than sense Client delusional about the costs irrespective of their savings / affordability. True self build ‘mindset ‘ doesn’t come up on GD very often . Anyone notice I just need need to stick an ‘o’ in there and I get GoD . Mr. mccloud himself . Edited February 13, 2022 by pocster Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteamyTea Posted February 13, 2022 Share Posted February 13, 2022 Just now, CharlieKLP said: lol aah no that’s the worst, I want people to value design. I want people to value my cheffing skills, but they want Rick Stein food at kebab shop prices. I tell them which is my favourite kebab shop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteamyTea Posted February 13, 2022 Share Posted February 13, 2022 1 minute ago, pocster said: Client with more money than sense Not that much money, you still got some walk on glazing for sale. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlieKLP Posted February 13, 2022 Author Share Posted February 13, 2022 1 minute ago, IanR said: I'm not really sure who you think you are. From what you have said previously, you are an employee of someone else's Architectural practice, has an actual house yet been built that is your sole design, and not one that the partners have been consulted on. What makes you think you are the arbiter of what a "beautiful" house is? Isn't that for the person paying the bill and choosing to live in the house to decide. House design is a compromise, and one that first and foremost has to be financially viable. There's no point building a "pretty" house in suburbia if what makes it pretty knocks 30m² off the floor plan, a bedroom and £150K off the value. For many plots "beautiful" is down the priority list, and rightly so. You say you want to head out on your own and have the self build community finance your new business venture. However, you appear to have nothing but contempt for them. A little humility, and listen to what the paying customer wants. I’m the only architect at a firm, there are no partners. Yes I’ve designed a lot of houses. I don’t consider myself the arbiter of good taste, I consider myself a trained architect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlieKLP Posted February 13, 2022 Author Share Posted February 13, 2022 4 minutes ago, SteamyTea said: I want people to value my cheffing skills, but they want Rick Stein food at kebab shop prices. I tell them which is my favourite kebab shop. I’m sure you’re a lovely cook! But I don’t think the cost is the problem, as I say, people can have a designer or they can draw it themselves, it costs the same where I work. my question would be, if the design is cheap, do people assume it’s got no value? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteamyTea Posted February 13, 2022 Share Posted February 13, 2022 Just now, CharlieKLP said: my question would be, if the design is cheap, do people assume it’s got no value? Publicly yes, but sales of tat prove otherwise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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