ASHP " buffer "?

[zoothorn]

2 minutes ago, joe90 said:

NO, you had a split unit (noisy gubbins indoors) and are being supplied a monobloc like the rest of us (noisy gubbins outdoors). Apart from subtleties in software and controls all monoblock heatpumps are basically the same.

Not quite so Joe. A similar ' hydraulic unit " box" ' is with the replacement monobloc system. Plus has the exact same dreaded frost protect software.
 

NOW Im just told of another unit entirely, of which I dont have presently with my current system, is to be fitted. A huge tank. With an electric pump in ( the pump is the very thing that causes the overnight noise). With duties solely with regard to the dreaded frost protect mode. What these are i dint care to know so far my hatred is of all this ( plus what good/ difference does it make if I know its technical intricacies or none at all... it still will come active at 3.19 am I can do nothing about).

 

As Neil the hippy said " oh no: out of the frying pan... & into another frying pan". But really I cannot muster ANY humour with this. Im sick with it, literally affected my health in many ways this has.

[CotswoldDoItUpper]

Just install a different buffer of the same size and fit the pump required in a different location but still connected to the flow or return or whatever as required. Then you have the right setup but with no noise issue.

[Marvin]

Ear muffs?

[TonyT]

9 hours ago, zoothorn said:

Not quite so Joe. A similar ' hydraulic unit " box" ' is with the replacement monobloc system. Plus has the exact same dreaded frost protect software.
 

NOW Im just told of another unit entirely, of which I dont have presently with my current system, is to be fitted. A huge tank. With an electric pump in ( the pump is the very thing that causes the overnight noise). With duties solely with regard to the dreaded frost protect mode. What these are i dint care to know so far my hatred is of all this ( plus what good/ difference does it make if I know its technical intricacies or none at all... it still will come active at 3.19 am I can do nothing about).

 

As Neil the hippy said " oh no: out of the frying pan... & into another frying pan". But really I cannot muster ANY humour with this. Im sick with it, literally affected my health in many ways this has.

Why sign up for an install under a grant scheme and think you would get silent heating?

 

 

even panel and storage make some metal expansion/ contraction noises.

 

easy way to reduce stress- tell them just to forget about it, I’m sure the suppliers, installers, grant providers will be delighted.

 

 

[ProDave]

11 hours ago, Marvin said:

s this about protecting the water in the pipes from freezing up

My LG runs an undocumented cycle like that.  Once the temperature gets to about 5 degrees outside, it will turn just the water circulating pump on, and open the heating motorised valves to circulate the water.  It draws a little heat out of the house to keep the temperature of the water in the outside pipes above 0.  The colder it gets, the more frequently it does that. 

 

It only turns the water circulating pump on, nothing else, so the noise it makes is small and does not wake us, though I would prefer it did not do it.  In theory with the antifreeze fitted in the pipes, it should not need to do this until well below 0.  but I guess they don't trust people to fit the correct antifreeze  and maintain it so consider just circulating the water from time to time is safer.

[joe90]

Good morning @zoothorn, I hope your feeling calmer today. Do you have a link to what exactly they propose fitting fir you so we can understand any potential problems for you.

[ReedRichards]

10 minutes ago, ProDave said:

My LG runs an undocumented cycle like that....  

 

You get very little documentation with the LG!   If I look at the graph of power drawn by my house I occasionally see little blips in the middle of the night when everything else is off; I wondered what those were.  For me this is quite a rare phenomenon, presumably because it does not often get cold enough.  This water circulating pump is inside the outside (monobloc) unit and I am sure this makes no audible noise inside the house.

[Gone West]

10 hours ago, zoothorn said:

Anything would be better. A different mfr ASHP. Anything. 

We are hopefully replacing our oil fired Rayburn this year with an external oil fired boiler. Oil fired boilers are not quiet but I don't hear it when I'm in bed and it does produce very hot water very quickly. You are welcome to it if your new system doesn't work as you would like, although you would have to collect it.

 

PS. I don't suppose your buffer tank would fit in your workshop room downstairs.

Edited February 3, 2022 by Gone West

[Nickfromwales]

11 hours ago, zoothorn said:

Not quite so Joe. A similar ' hydraulic unit " box" ' is with the replacement monobloc system. Plus has the exact same dreaded frost protect software.

NOPE.

It is night and day different.

 

A question;

@zoothorn......nobody else......... "Do you understand, for once and for all, that the new system is a monoblock and not a split, ergo the noise from the internal compressor that has offended you to date, will then live OUTSIDE in the monoblock itself?"

 

Do you understand and accept that? Please only reply with a one word answer.....stating either the word "yes" or the word "no". One word, not a single other vowel. 

[SteamyTea]

1 hour ago, Nickfromwales said:

"Do you understand, for once and for all, that the new system is a monoblock and not a split, ergo the noise from the internal compressor that has offended you to date, will then live OUTSIDE in the monoblock itself?"

Pumps and valves may be indoors. They make a noise.

You get clicking, popping and gurgling from most CH systems in my experience.

None are silent.

I can hear my immersion heater when it is on.

 

[Nickfromwales]

18 minutes ago, SteamyTea said:

Pumps and valves may be indoors. They make a noise.

You get clicking, popping and gurgling from most CH systems in my experience.

None are silent.

I can hear my immersion heater when it is on.

 

Already clearly stated in my previous boss!!!

[SteamyTea]

1 minute ago, Nickfromwales said:

Already clearly stated in my previous boss!!!

Going to be fun this is.

 

60p/hour to run a fan heater.

Edited February 3, 2022 by SteamyTea

[Nickfromwales]

Just now, SteamyTea said:

Going to be fun this is.

The only way is up in this instance.

[SteamyTea]

4 minutes ago, Nickfromwales said:

The only way is up in this instance.

Time will tell.

[zoothorn]

17 hours ago, joe90 said:

Good morning @zoothorn, I hope your feeling calmer today. Do you have a link to what exactly they propose fitting fir you so we can understand any potential problems for you.

Hi J. Well, no Ive just today been threatened at my home with violence by n'bours.. so things not good.

 

This new fiasco, being cold , sleeplessnes & year plus fight causing stress/ all this.. plus this 5 year now ( been here 5.5 yrs) ongoing n'bour bullying awfulness has taken a huge toll on me tbh.

 

i'll leave the thread now, as i cant really cope with any additional nastiness from replies.

 

Thanks ProDave, Peter & yourself, & other kind voices. Zh

 

 

[joe90]

Really sorry to hear that, I hope it’s get sorted for you.

[ProDave]

23 hours ago, ReedRichards said:

 

You get very little documentation with the LG!   If I look at the graph of power drawn by my house I occasionally see little blips in the middle of the night when everything else is off; I wondered what those were.  For me this is quite a rare phenomenon, presumably because it does not often get cold enough.  This water circulating pump is inside the outside (monobloc) unit and I am sure this makes no audible noise inside the house.

I had to fit a second circulating pump to get the water flow rate high enough, that is in the house and is the one I can hear (though not as bad now we have carpet in the bedrooms)

 

If the power drawn is high enough to measure, I wonder if as well as turning the pump on, it also turns on the electric heating element?  I have never monitored the power while it is doing that.  I know it does not start up the heat pump.

[ReedRichards]

Yes, the thing I like least is about my ASHP is that the central heating is audible whereas with my old external oil boiler and external pump it was completely silent.  Now the central heating has its own internal pump and there is a bit of noise from this and also noise from water inside some radiators, presumably because of the high flow rate that ASHPs like to use in order to maintain a small temperature differential.  This noise is not loud enough to wake me up at night and it's not entirely bad to have some audible feedback that the central heating is running but I would rather it was not there.  It's the radiators nearest the pump that are noisy, the others are silent. 

[SteamyTea]

32 minutes ago, ReedRichards said:

It's the radiators nearest the pump that are noisy, the others are silent

Is that vibration or water noise?

[ReedRichards]

It's a bit of both but more water noise than vibration, I think.

[SteamyTea]

14 minutes ago, ReedRichards said:

It's a bit of both but more water noise than vibration, I think.

Good info, should make this thread even more fun.

[Marvin]

Our ASHP has a built in pump which pumps the water to the buffer tank: Never heard it working.  Our radiators and coils are fed by another pump and is on the slowest speed possible. I definitely heard this when it had air in it otherwise I never hear it, although the heating is on 24 hrs, and its the other side of the bedroom wall. Perhaps this is another benefit of a buffer....

[zoothorn]

Chaps, 

 

Im tentatively diving back in here to ask some basics. Its been attempted answering by Vaillant tech dept ( 3 chaps no less) but still I cannot understand it. You see the position Im in, is that this new buffer tank thing is suddenly sprung on me. They say " ok ok we can agree to fit the system without it, BUT then we're not responsible for any damage/ warranty invalid etc ".

 

SO. I now have to consider accepting this tank, in the only place it can possibly go due to sheer damn size of it. Where? In the same bloody place Im currently having the problems with the bedroom cupboard box. PLUS all I understand this tank's function is to do, is the very frost protect mode/ cycle thing ( with a damn pump inside too ), which is the CORE problem, with my current system, in this very problem siting: in this bedroom cupboard. So.... in principle, I am going to say NO WAY can I have such a unit, back here.

 

But it seems if Ido not accept it, the system is compromied, & warranty invalid.

 

So I need to try understanding what, if any, differences this tank thing has to my current box ( hydraulic unit ). So far as I can tell, it is essentially - exactly the same- IE having a pump inside to pump water around during the frost protect mode, which happens problemstically loudly ( currently ) & problematically close to bedrooms, in fact within one itself.

So, I need to try to understand firstly, going back a big step, what is being pumped.... where. And once known where..... then why.

 

Can anyone help? Thanks, Zoot.

[ProDave]

Don't over complicate yourself with the detail of what they are fitting.  Your objective is a quiet system that you can live with.  just make it clear they can fit whatever they require to make the system function as it should and within it's warranty BUT if it make a noise to the point of disturbing your sleep like the old system then you WILL be complaining again and expecting a resolution,.

[joe90]

59 minutes ago, zoothorn said:

all I understand this tank's function is to do, is the very frost protect mode/ cycle thing ( with a damn pump inside too ), which is the CORE problem, with my current system, in this very problem siting: in this bedroom cupboard.

I think this statement is wrong. As I understand your previous system half the noise generating part of the mechanics was within the house, with a monobloc all the mechanics are outside the house (except a pump and buffer tank). Nearly all central heating systems be they gas or oil will have a pump within the house and fairly quiet (depending where they are). The buffer tank is to create a bigger volume of water to stop the ASHP starting and stopping often (cycling) which makes it inefficient. The cupboard containing the buffer tank and pump can be sound insulated if it’s found to be annoying, not difficult and easy to DIY. why don’t you post up the spec of what they want to fit and we can collectively comment on its suitability. ?

Edited February 8, 2022 by joe90