Mini Stove > Cabin job.

[zoothorn]

Hi chaps, happy new'ish year to all on BH.

 

I have a diddy 2.5kw stove, to install in my 3x3 log cabin, now the inside painted ( was badly water-stained before): quite a job, took many layers.

 

As stove is so small/ low, I 1st want to put it up onto a hearth area. I've seen this timber idea ( usa ) which could perhaps be scaled down. Then a hearth layer of some sort on top. Is this the right sort of approach I wonder? Like this its to go into a corner.

 

Opinions would be great, thanks Zoot.

 

'

 

[ProDave]

The important thing is what does the stove manufacturer say?

 

There are two important things, the first is what hearth does it need.  If it is small as you say and sits right on the floor with no storage space underneath, then it will require a constructional hearth, which is basically a big thick slab of cast concrete.

 

But if it has a storage space or other void at the bottom and the manufacturer certifies the bottom will never exceed 100 degrees then it only needs a 12mm hearth which may be a slab of stone, glass or even tiles if thick enough.

 

The second thing is what the manufacturer says is the minimum "distance to combustible materials" from the sides and back of the stove.  That dictates where it stands how far from the walls.

[jamieled]

Took a similar,  but simpler approach to your example zoot.  We have a small stove, about 4kw in the caravan. Put 3 timber bearers down, then a cheap slab of slate from b and q for the stove to sit on. Works a treat. Needed some cement board behind it to protect the caravan.

[Grian]

I don't know about yours but some stoves have optional heat shields that reduce the distance to combustibles, for example https://www.charnwood.com/all-stoves/stove-accessories/all-ranges/single-skin-heatshield/ and https://salamanderstoves.com/product/small-stove-heatshields/ the latter says "Our heatshields greatly reduce the distances that your stove can be placed next to combustible or non-combustible surfaces. If your Hobbit stove is equipped with this heatshield option, then your small wood burner can be placed 150mm away from combustible materials at the sides of the stove, and 100mm away from combustible materials at the back of the stove."

 

There is also this kind of spendy option for a complete surround https://www.charnwood.com/all-stoves/stove-accessories/aire/stove-pod/

[ProDave]

Care to post the make and model of stove and if you know it a link to the installation manual?

[zoothorn]

On 22/01/2022 at 11:37, ProDave said:

The important thing is what does the stove manufacturer say?

 

There are two important things, the first is what hearth does it need.  If it is small as you say and sits right on the floor with no storage space underneath, then it will require a constructional hearth, which is basically a big thick slab of cast concrete.

 

But if it has a storage space or other void at the bottom and the manufacturer certifies the bottom will never exceed 100 degrees then it only needs a 12mm hearth which may be a slab of stone, glass or even tiles if thick enough.

 

The second thing is what the manufacturer says is the minimum "distance to combustible materials" from the sides and back of the stove.  That dictates where it stands how far from the walls.

Hi ProDave,

 

thanks for this, very sensible which is critical I agree. Thing is there is no such info with the stove, its a tiny 1 man handmade company the only thing I got was details on the baffle plate inserting really. 
 

So it's reallya case of looking at photo eg's on his site of customer's own installs & taking approximate dims of H from back walls, material that might consitute a ( raised ) hearth. Better still Id think glean pro info like the clip I put up?

 

thanks zoot

 

 

 

 

Edited January 23, 2022 by zoothorn

[zoothorn]

On 22/01/2022 at 11:44, jamieled said:

Took a similar,  but simpler approach to your example zoot.  We have a small stove, about 4kw in the caravan. Put 3 timber bearers down, then a cheap slab of slate from b and q for the stove to sit on. Works a treat. Needed some cement board behind it to protect the caravan.

Hi Jamielad,

 

this is basically what I was thinking. The wall shield board is n/ a just for now, this bit is surely the easy bit last.

 

The hearth, or rather raised area below the stove is all I need to consider firstly. Now I have limited space in my small 3 x3 cabin, I can basically just lie down in it a few inches to spare. So I can't have the stove pulled super far out, or, have a super wide hearth. It neeeds to be minimum in size yet sensible enough. And same with distance to the corner/ the stove's position.

 

Can you tell me what your size slate hearth bed is? And do you have any pics of the timberwork under it? 
 

Thanks, zoot

[ProDave]

This is the one I fitted in our static caravan

 

 

It does NOT comply with building regs, it was just something I did the best I could.  The hearth does not extend far enough in front of the stove for a start.  We used to keep a cheap tough mat in front of it to protect the carpet.

 

The stone sides and back are to protect the timber cupboard and plywood wall covering, and there is an air gap behind both bits of stone, not easy to see in the photos.  These were some offcuts of stone worktop I got from freecycle years ago in the principle they might come in handy some day.

 

This was a very cheap stove from the internet, not one I would use in a proper house, but it served us well and we managed not to set fire to the caravan.

[zoothorn]

On 22/01/2022 at 13:19, ProDave said:

Care to post the make and model of stove and if you know it a link to the installation manual?

I can only point you to his Facebook page, & the model I have Cadet 2.5kw.
 

 https://www.facebook.com/page/1430247350562911/search/?q=Cadet

 

Thanks, zoot

[zoothorn]

20 minutes ago, ProDave said:

This is the one I fitted in our static caravan

 

 

It does NOT comply with building regs, it was just something I did the best I could.  The hearth does not extend far enough in front of the stove for a start.  We used to keep a cheap tough mat in front of it to protect the carpet.

 

The stone sides and back are to protect the timber cupboard and plywood wall covering, and there is an air gap behind both bits of stone, not easy to see in the photos.  These were some offcuts of stone worktop I got from freecycle years ago in the principle they might come in handy some day.

 

This was a very cheap stove from the internet, not one I would use in a proper house, but it served us well and we managed not to set fire to the caravan.

This is great info/ I recall you put this pic up before on my cabin build thread. Ideal eg to go onwards from thanks.

 

So approximately this size hearth, the width can be a bit more as its to go in a corner, & say a few inches more fwd. But if I could  get it similarly compactly into the adjacent walls, pulled a little further out perhaps.. but as in a corner helping matters.. that should be fine.

 

So I just need to design the timber raised bit, & choose a cost effective but decent enough looking hearth. Slate.. way too expensive.

 

Weight might need consideration: the floor is only a timber t&g affair so can't deal with a huge ammount.. but then if I can stand in the corner then I guess that is weight tested enough.

 

Thanks, zoot

[ProDave]

I would suggest something like paving slabs on top of your frame as the hearth.  Cheap and some are quite good looking.  Line the 2 walls into the corner with some cement type tile board stood off slightly on spacers and tile them with ordinary wall tiles.

 

Get an IR thermometer and on first burn see how hot the adjacent wall surfaces get and add more protection if anything looks to be getting a little too warm.

 

I forget the exact measurements but the hearth is supposed to extend about 400mm in front of the stove.

[jamieled]

@zoothorn couple of photos for you. It seems I actually used bricks for bearers, but timber would work just as well as the bearers don't heat up.

 

Its a small windy smithy stove. None of this meets any regs. It was in a small touring caravan so not a huge amount of space. Think the bit of slate cost about 8 quid. It's about 30cm by 60cm.

 

[ProDave]

52 minutes ago, zoothorn said:

I can only point you to his Facebook page, & the model I have Cadet 2.5kw.
 

 https://www.facebook.com/page/1430247350562911/search/?q=Cadet

 

Thanks, zoot

That link does not work for me.  That might be because I am not (and don't want to be) a member of facebook.

[dpmiller]

16 hours ago, ProDave said:

That link does not work for me.  That might be because I am not (and don't want to be) a member of facebook.

 

and it won't help much if you do open it, Dave. It's a blokey in his shed making stoves to his own design and reselling some others. No website, and no mention of a manual...

[PeterW]

@zoothorn so looking at this it’s a pretty small stove but I would suggest you need to have a think about a few things :

 

- you’ll need to protect the walls and floor - and if you want to bring it up higher then a plinth will be needed that is heat proof

- you want something relatively light but nice looking, so consider stone paving for both hearth and wall 

- going through the roof, you need to make the chimney safe but watertight, so you’ll need something like this

 

What stove pipe do you plan to use as ideally you  want twin wall to go through the roof as it’s cooler but you may find it costs as much for the chimney as you’ve paid for the stove !!

 

 

[SteamyTea]

7 hours ago, PeterW said:

going through the roof, you need to make the chimney safe but watertight, so you’ll need something like this

Link don't work.

 

But I will add that a CO monitor is important.

[ProDave]

I would definitely use twin wall flue right from the stove, otherwise a single wall flue is likely to end up too close to the flamable walls so would require heat protection all the way up the walls.

 

My finding with the cheap little stove in the caravan is the flue gets very much hotter than the quality stove we have in the house.  Probably a measure at how poor the cheap stove is at putting the heat from combustion into the room and instead a lot more heat goes up the flue compared to the more efficient quality stove we have in the house.

[zoothorn]

11 hours ago, PeterW said:

@zoothorn so looking at this it’s a pretty small stove but I would suggest you need to have a think about a few things :

 

- you’ll need to protect the walls and floor - and if you want to bring it up higher then a plinth will be needed that is heat proof

- you want something relatively light but nice looking, so consider stone paving for both hearth and wall 

- going through the roof, you need to make the chimney safe but watertight, so you’ll need something like this

 

What stove pipe do you plan to use as ideally you  want twin wall to go through the roof as it’s cooler but you may find it costs as much for the chimney as you’ve paid for the stove !!

 

 

Hi there Peter, glad to have your thoughts again.

 

Stone paving is a great idea. So Im thinking make a smaller frame roughly as per my clip, board the top.. & yup some paving slabs ontop. Cheapest way surely.
 

As the cabin's all wood then I guess it's not necessary to have heatproof timber for the frame, maybe glue on some slab slices to cover it to make a plinth, the slab hearth top just overhanging say 2". 
 

The flue is only 4", & 2x1m of this is cheap. Its the wider steel roof standoff section, & chinaman hat thing on top the costlier bit, but I don't think too much. I hope it'll be half the stove cost say £120 for the hearth & chimney made & fitted tbh.
 

Thanks, zoot,
 

 

 

 

[zoothorn]

On 23/01/2022 at 14:57, ProDave said:

That link does not work for me.  That might be because I am not (and don't want to be) a member of facebook.

Hi Dave,

 

no sorry that doesn't seem to work (I'm with you re Facebook.. I only joined it to buy the stove: seems websites are a bit oldskool now).

 

Bow Mill Stoves, simple as/ manual.. it's not quite that sort of seller.

[zoothorn]

4 hours ago, ProDave said:

I would definitely use twin wall flue right from the stove, otherwise a single wall flue is likely to end up too close to the flamable walls so would require heat protection all the way up the walls.

 

My finding with the cheap little stove in the caravan is the flue gets very much hotter than the quality stove we have in the house.  Probably a measure at how poor the cheap stove is at putting the heat from combustion into the room and instead a lot more heat goes up the flue compared to the more efficient quality stove we have in the house.

Good points re. the flue: now I do plan on just going with a single lined 4".. but take your points on board: if it does seem too hot then I'll have to line this adjacent corner behind the flue, as only a short distance to ceiling of maybe 1.4m from the stove.

 

I might just pull the stove out a bit in lieu of what you say here though. I was thinking a simple single lined flue would be useful to add to the heat into the space, over an insulated one. Hard to judge what heat my diddy stove might be capable of throwing out.

 

Thanks zh.

[zoothorn]

@jamieled great pics thanks Jamie. Small windy smithy stove! I likes the sound of that. Actually lookslike my stove is based on this design. Just a diddy window added. A tad smaller maybe, yours looks to be a 5" flue at a guess?

 

So your idea here, ie far from building regs/ ideal safety parmeters etc, is morelike my thinking tbh. Although taking on board some very good points from Peter & ProDave. So I might go halfway between, pull stove out a bit more.

 

Spurs me on though! Cheers, zH 

[jamieled]

@zoothorn think it is a 5 inch flue. It converts to twinwall just out of shot where it goes through the caravan roof. The cement board protects the caravan from the stove and the single wall flue. 

[ProDave]

 

Is it this one?

 

That is using a stone hearth, and metal sheets spaced off the wall for heat protection of the wall.  That is something like you need to do.

 

And twin wall flue all the way from the stove through the rood.

 

[zoothorn]

On 25/01/2022 at 20:23, ProDave said:

 

Is it this one?

 

That is using a stone hearth, and metal sheets spaced off the wall for heat protection of the wall.  That is something like you need to do.

 

And twin wall flue all the way from the stove through the rood.

 

Hi ProDave,

 

yes bingo! That is exactly my stove.. or the next one up/ but this is an ideal pic to work from. Even the hearth shape: every inch of it matters as will take away from ' living space' already at a minimum. So just like this but raised up I dunno 8" or so.

 

I'll make the timber 'plinth' roughly from my clip example in #1, top it with ply then come back.. a nice but if slate like so though a premium. Looks great though. More likely 'fake slate' pave slabs, tho the contoured top will inevitably mean a wobbly stove to sort out.
 

Fantastic find that... was it somewhere in the facebook ' website' ? ( like you I refuse to jump onboard with social media).

 

Thanks, zoot.

[zoothorn]

Here's my set up.. so Im thinking a 7" or so plinth/ hearth. You can see how low it is like so!

 

Then its 1450mm to ceiling from stove top.