The research evidence on security alarms

[Adsibob]

On 29/10/2021 at 09:59, SteamyTea said:

Make sure that if you have a safe, your sister does not loose the number/key, just in case your mother looses the ability to communicate.

Think I will be using and angle grinder a lot this weekend.

We had this nightmare last night. At 9pm, only 14hr before an international flight, I go to retrieve the passports from  our safe only to find out that the key is not where I left it. 120 minutes of frantic searching, first for the keys, then for an emergency locksmith, available late at night on the last working day before Christmas. What a mess.

He turned up c. 11pm and managed to get into the safe by drilling through the cylinder, after first unsuccessfully trying to pick it.

Horrible experience.

 This morning my six year old admits to having “played with the keys in daddy’s drawer”. I’m so stupid. Should have set up the key code, rather than just rely on a key it turns out my daughter had access to…

[SteamyTea]

11 minutes ago, Adsibob said:

At 9pm, only 14hr before an international flight

 

11 minutes ago, Adsibob said:

120 minutes of frantic searching

An hour less than the check in time before a flight.

 

I hate flying.

[Adsibob]

The whole experience has made me rethink our decision not to get a burglar alarm.
 Can anyone recommend an alarm that is good enough to get you a discount on your home insurance, and reliable in terms of not triggering false alarms. Something with minimal wires would also be good.

[JohnMo]

30 minutes ago, Adsibob said:

Can anyone recommend an alarm that is good enough to get you a discount on your home insurance

I would actually ask them to quote for approved alarm and without, I did a few years ago and not one penny of difference. But having the alarm meant you had to follow a given set of rules to ensure you got paid if you were robbed. 

 

To be approved you cannot self install, it has to be a professional install, with appropriate certificates and managed and serviced.

[Adsibob]

1 hour ago, JohnMo said:

I would actually ask them to quote for approved alarm and without, I did a few years ago and not one penny of difference. But having the alarm meant you had to follow a given set of rules to ensure you got paid if you were robbed. 

 

To be approved you cannot self install, it has to be a professional install, with appropriate certificates and managed and serviced.

 

I just ran two quotes on compare the market dot com for buildings and contents insurance. 

With the details of our house WITHOUT an alarm, the quote is £150 a year CHEAPER than the exact same details WITH a fully approved professionally installed alarm. In other words, the insurer considers a house in our postcode with an alarm to be a riskier risk than the same house without.

 

[Adsibob]

And amending the inputs to a self installed alarm, or an alarm that was professionally installed but not by an approved contractor made no difference, it was still £150 more expensive than no alarm.

 

Is it possible, a burglar may prefer to target houses with alarms, because that way he (or she) knows there are assets there worth protecting, and therefore worth stealing?

Just a possible explanation for the large increase in risk perceived by the insurers.

Edited December 23, 2023 by Adsibob

[joe90]

34 minutes ago, Adsibob said:

Is it possible, a burglar may prefer to target houses with alarms, because that way he (or she) knows there are assets there worth protecting, and therefore worth stealing?

Just a possible explanation for the large increase in risk perceived by the insurers.

I agree and unless you have anything of sentimental value good insurance is my advise.

[Iceverge]

@Adsibob

 

Burglars are like investors. They aim for the best return available with the least risk. 

 

Most have little interest in your passports. They're too hard to fence, connect you directly with the crime and get you involved in a much riskier level of criminality. 

A stolen family's passports might cost you £1000's to replace in time, effort and stress, but for most normal thief's they're not worth the effort. £20 on a window sill is a much better prospect.  

 

If I was a criminal I would look for. 

 

1. Someone with cash handy in the house like someone who regularly made an ATM withdrawal for example or with a flash Rolex. 

2. Crappy windows or doors that could be easily shouldered in. Remember 10 locks is no good if the frame is made of rotten timber. 

3. Someone who made it obvious when they were at home, like parking their car in front of the house in plain sight, broadcasting about their upcoming holiday or leaving the bins out for a week when they're away. 

4. A house with a hidden rear entrance that I could work at without observers. 

 

An alarm wouldn't make much difference if I could see Mrs Smith's handbag with her pension inside, on the kitchen countertop. I'd be over the hills by the time anyone noticed. The cops would never donate enough resources for a £100 crime to catch me. If the door was unlocked and I just took the cash she may not even report me. A video doorbell or camera can be defeated by a £2 face mask, most dogs similarly with a square of cheese. 

 

Things I would avoid. 

 

1. A property that had nothing easy to sell. An owner who didn't use cash or have fancy electronics or jewellery/watches. 

2. A house with a door that would take an axe to break down or make a racket doing so. 

3. A house that I could never be sure if someone was at home or not, a radio on a timer for example.   

4. A house that any nefarious external activity would be observable. 

5.  Having no easy escape routes, like an isolated county house down a long lane or a top floor flat. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited December 23, 2023 by Iceverge

[joth]

Forget trying to find an alarm that will pay for itself through insurance discount. The only reason to do it for insurance is if you have expensive items/collections (art, jewellery, antiques etc) that they simply won't insure at all without a graded alarm. Think £50,000+ value items. 

And even then the alarm and the insurance will cost a leg

Like owning a super car.

 

If you want monitored with police call out, the make of alarm is irrelevant the price is dominated by the mandatory maintenance and monitoring service. And this depends on the local installer competitiveness.

 

For everything else it's just to make some noise for peace of mind. Last two times we were broken into we were nearby or in the house asleep, and the one false alarm since installing the alarm (different house entirely) the neighbours and the remote alert on my phone were enough to get eyes on the property very quickly and avoid a total ransacking.

 

The biggest frustration for installing an alarm (DIY or pro) is if you have pets roaming everywhere 

[SteamyTea]

4 hours ago, Adsibob said:

With the details of our house WITHOUT an alarm, the quote is £150 a year CHEAPER than the exact same details WITH a fully approved professionally installed alarm. In other words, the insurer considers a house in our postcode with an alarm to be a riskier risk than the same house without.

Or the installers are selling your house plans and content lists, along with extra information like dog ownership.

[Adsibob]

@joth sounds like you have experience of burglaries. Sorry to hear this. I’m not really bothered about monitoring or anything fancy. I’m just considering whether to get something to deter a long burglary as opposed to a short one. I don’t think the presence of an alarm is a deterrent to an actual burglary, but it may hasten the crime if the intruder gets in. That certainly was the case in respect of the burglary I witnessed in broad daylight across the road. Although it was clear the thieves were only after the keys of the Audi Q7 parked in the drive. My car’s a Seat Ateca so hopefully much less blingy.

 

We don’t have pets at the moment, but will be getting a dog in a couple of years (a soft a cuddly one, not a guard dog, although an American Akita would tick both of those boxes), so something that was limited to door and window sensors might be good. I’m thinking of the Ring system, just because I am already on their ecosystem for doorbell and cameras, the app works well, and the kit is well reviewed. The only thing I don’t like is that all our windows and doors are black and Ring only supply white door/window sensors, unless you go for the outdoor rated stuff which is much chunkier and unnecessary. What systems do people have and what do they like/dislike about them?

 

 

[TonyT]

Just spray the sensors to suit the decor.

 

ive done this with CCTV to blend them iin

[Adsibob]

1 hour ago, TonyT said:

Just spray the sensors to suit the decor.

So if I wanted a RAL 9005 coloured spray, would that be possible? Anyone able to recommend a brand?

[JohnMo]

You can get colour mixed spray cans to RAL codes. Sorry been a while since I purchased, I just did a Google search. You can get 2K acrylic, which is very wearing and not dangerous to use. You can also get different gloss levels.

[Adsibob]

On 29/10/2021 at 06:22, AliG said:

We have a wireless system, professionally installed. The lack of cabling makes the install match cheaper. Monitoring and servicing costs £250 a year.

@AliG which brand alarm do you have and are you still happy with it?

[AliG]

It’s Pyronix equipment.

 

 Very happy. No issues

[Adsibob]

Quotes I’m getting for installation of an insurance approved alarm are crazy. Cheapest quote I’ve got is £1250 installation plus £30 a month for monitoring. Some quotes are twice or even 2.5 times that.

 

 There is only a £200 a year saving on insurance on getting an insurance approved alarm. Some insurance comparison websites even quote more if you have an alarm - very odd.

[Nickfromwales]

On 08/03/2025 at 14:15, Adsibob said:

Quotes I’m getting for installation of an insurance approved alarm are crazy. Cheapest quote I’ve got is £1250 installation plus £30 a month for monitoring. Some quotes are twice or even 2.5 times that.

 

 There is only a £200 a year saving on insurance on getting an insurance approved alarm. Some insurance comparison websites even quote more if you have an alarm - very odd.

Here is the problem.

 

I have heard 'stories' from people who got broken into but the alarm was not activated (daytime, or just you were in a rush etc). Insurance null and void. Zero pay-out whatsoever.

 

Basically, after declaring to your insurers you have a kick-ass alarm with all the bells & whistles, (so give me a discount please, which ain't enough to take the family out for a Nandos), you are then FECKED as without EVIDENCE via the alarm log that the alarm was activated when the break-in occurred, your NOT COVERED!

 

Insurance companies are tossers on a good day, so to hand them the keys to the city and help them get off the hook seems madness. I would much rather have an alarm, undeclared on my insurance so no special terms applied, and then have that monitored or just alert my phone etc.

 

Good news is, that if you are "done over" when you simply overlooked this minor thing, eg to turn the alarm on, if you don't declare the alarm then you're always completely covered.

[ProDave]

8 minutes ago, Nickfromwales said:

Basically, after declaring to your insurers you have a kick-ass alarm with all the bells & whistles, (so give me a discount please, which ain't enough to take the family out for a Nandos), you are then FECKED as without EVIDENCE via the alarm log that the alarm was activated when the break-in occurred, your NOT COVERED!

I had similar with car insurance.  When I built the garage at our house I declared to my insurance on renewal the car was parked in a garage.  THEN they told me the reduction in the premium was £0.  I then asked what if one night I left it on the drive and it was nicked.  Sorry not covered.

 

Needless to say it is declared to the insurance now as stored on the driveway overnight.  Madness.

[Adsibob]

6 minutes ago, Nickfromwales said:

Here is the problem.

 

I have heard 'stories' from people who got broken into but the alarm was not activated (daytime, or just you were in a rush etc). Insurance null and void. Zero pay-out whatsoever.

 

Basically, after declaring to your insurers you have a kick-ass alarm with all the bells & whistles, (so give me a discount please, which ain't enough to take the family out for a Nandos), you are then FECKED as without EVIDENCE via the alarm log that the alarm was activated when the break-in occurred, your NOT COVERED!

 

Insurance companies are tossers on a good day, so to hand them the keys to the city and help them get off the hook seems madness. I would much rather have an alarm, undeclared on my insurance so no special terms applied, and then have that monitored or just alert my phone etc.

 

Good news is, that if you are "done over" when you simply overlooked this minor thing, eg to turn the alarm on, if you don't declare the alarm then you're always completely covered.

I’m glad you have said this, because I’ve been thinking it for a while. This is exactly what I’m going to do. I pressed the trigger on a professional alarm today. I know that a more cool headed approach would be to save money and go the self install route, but I didn’t want to be responsible for a bad installation, and I also wanted it done quickly. The burglary hit us bad. The scumbags came back a few days later and stole the car too. Luckily I recovered that thanks to a tracker. Now I’m preparing for the fight with the insurer. Can you believe they have sent their “agents” to my house to check my locks and entry points THREE times. They haven’t caught me out yet though, and I’m not about to start letting them by declaring an alarm.

[Nickfromwales]

1 minute ago, Adsibob said:

I’m glad you have said this, because I’ve been thinking it for a while. This is exactly what I’m going to do. I pressed the trigger on a professional alarm today. I know that a more cool headed approach would be to save money and go the self install route, but I didn’t want to be responsible for a bad installation, and I also wanted it done quickly. The burglary hit us bad. The scumbags came back a few days later and stole the car too. Luckily I recovered that thanks to a tracker. Now I’m preparing for the fight with the insurer. Can you believe they have sent their “agents” to my house to check my locks and entry points THREE times. They haven’t caught me out yet though, and I’m not about to start letting them by declaring an alarm.

 

20 minutes ago, Nickfromwales said:

Insurance companies are tossers on a good day

I used to enjoy every single second of getting refused claims through for clients of old, for plumbing / electrical / structural stuff, where the insurance company had told the long term customers to (expletive deleted) off. You could literally hear their tone change when the customer said that they were giving their permission for me to speak on their behalf. Game, set & match.....wankers the lot of them.

 

For anyone reading here, mentioning "accidental damage" to your insurers is your friend, (BUT.....strictly only when it is an absolutely hands-down case that accidental damage had occurred and nothing whatsoever else is afoot, naturally). We don't want anybody bending the rules peeps, "promise to be good" .

 

 

[Nickfromwales]

I have overlooked to say I am sorry to hear about the break-in. The fact that these c***s came back for the car is just incredulous to most, but par for the course for these bottom-feeding fukctards.

 

The fact that our prisons are better than Butlins means that getting caught for these crimes is little to zero deterrent to these folk. This country, its snowflake government, and its judicial system is a complete pantomime.

[Mike]

56 minutes ago, Nickfromwales said:

Basically, after declaring to your insurers you have a kick-ass alarm with all the bells & whistles, (so give me a discount please, which ain't enough to take the family out for a Nandos), you are then FECKED as without EVIDENCE via the alarm log that the alarm was activated when the break-in occurred, your NOT COVERED!

Yes, that's the way it works. The same for window locks too.

 

I had an alarm and windows lock on my last place but chose to say I had neither on my insurance application. I missed out on a small discount, but had the reassurance that I'd still be covered if I forgot to set the alarm / lock every window.

[Adsibob]

13 minutes ago, Mike said:

lock every window

Luckily with MVHR we rarely have the need to unlock any of our windows. Obviously in summer that is a different story. 

[Big Jimbo]

I said on a previous post, an old friend caught a burgler in his house. Tied him up and tortured him for a couple of hours. Quite heavy stuff. Broke his jaw, and eye socket. Wired him up, and told him he was going to electrocute him. The guy was crying and $hat himself. My mates wife thought he was going to kill him, and was the One who eventually called the police. 

My mate got Six years for GBH and kidnap, and had to pay the bloke £3500. That was about 30 years ago. I have sometimes wondered if the burglar changed careers after that.

I can't help but think that our legal system, and the lack of prison sentences can't help. Although society has changed. When I was a young adult growing up in a $hite bit of London, people who robbed houses were thought of as scum, and would get a good kicking from local bods. They themselves might have been bank robbers, warehouse breakers, or cigarette lorry robbers, but they had no time for house robbers.