Adsibob Posted October 28, 2021 Share Posted October 28, 2021 Was having a debate with a family member about security alarms. Despite having witnessed a burglary across the road from our house shortly after we purchased it, I am still not convinced a burglar alarm is worth it. It’s not just the installation cost, but also the hassle of false alarms and the maintenance cost. Came across this research paper by a group of Academics at respectable English universities which says this: “This article reports some intriguing findings based on data from the Crime Survey for England and Wales (CSEW), which suggest that the addition of burglar alarms may be counter-productive.” As is often the case, the devil is in the detail, and the methodology used in the article does have a couple of flaws (which it recognises). Worth a read: https://link.springer.com/article/10.1057/cpcs.2014.17 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jayc89 Posted October 28, 2021 Share Posted October 28, 2021 There were a spate of burglaries on our road a few weeks ago. Multiple garages/sheds broken into all on the same night. They seemed to be targeting power tools, for some reason. Given we've just gone through a fairly big, obvious, house renovation, there are loads of tools in our garage/house. I have a number of Ring security cameras, plus their alarm system set up in both the house and on the garage. We didn't get broken into. Maybe we were just lucky? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AliG Posted October 29, 2021 Share Posted October 29, 2021 A few years ago there was a spate of cars being stolen around our old house. People broke a door lock and came into our kitchen, but the alarm went off and scared them away, so a small piece of anecdotal evidence there. On the other hand, neighbours across the street were on holiday and people broke in. It took them less than two minutes to silence the alarm, search the house for their car keys and drive off. I caught it all on our Ring camera, but could only see what was happening and not identify anything specific. Discussion with neighbours then ensued. Everyone wanted a high tech and expensive wa to protect their cars. This was ridiculous in my view. The best way to stop burglaries is physical protection. If they cannot get in or see anything worth stealing they will move on. Certainly here, mos burglaries are to get car keys and the simple solution is to put you car in the garage. We have been doing this every day for years now and had no further issues. I just could not persuade people to do this instead of spending money on more exciting, but less useful high tech solutions. Maybe it is best to think about how to increase security and what gives the best cost benefit. 1. Physical security - Locks - After our french door lock was broken, I was surprised to find that an enormous percentage of burglaries involve lock snapping as had ours. We replaced all our locks with higher quality locks where this could not happen easily. This cost just a few pounds per lock and the mind boggles that window companies and builders do not fit these as standard as the extra cost on new doors and windows would only be a few pounds. A total no brainer. Laminated glass - Again, a very high percentage of burglaries involve broken windows. My parents were broken into by simply chucking a brick through their patio doors. All of our windows are laminated. I consider this one of the best ways to prevent burglary. It would be quite hard to get into my house or already replacing windows. Great if building a new house, too expensive otherwise. You can add film to existing windows to the same effect, but this is not that easy. Lights - The data you attached suggests that security lights are a cheap no brainer. LED lights now mean that you can light up your house quite cheaply and easily at night. We have dawn to dusk lights on permanently. They can also make it look like you are at home, up early etc. Again, a cheap no brainer. Secure your car - Garage, bollards, gates etc. A decent percentage brurglaries are to get your car keys. If you car is in the garage or behind bollards or a gate then they will move on to an easier target. It could well be free to put your car away, it also stops it frosting over, keeps it cleaner etc. Total no brainer. 2. Alarms These probably are of minor deterrent use, but the key thing is do people actually use them. We had our alarm on when broken into and it scared them off. Today our alarm is app connected and very easy to set from in bed our when out/ on holiday etc. I can turn it off when on holiday if someone wants to check the house then back on. I feel that using the alarm is key and that the right kind of system today makes using the alarm much easier. Monitoring etc need not be expensive. We have a wireless system, professionally installed. The lack of cabling makes the install match cheaper. Monitoring and servicing costs £250 a year. You get part of this back in reduced insurance. However, I would say that monitoring is only useful when not at home and the main deterrent factor is that the alarm wakes you up and scares off burglars. The reason I think insurance companies like to see you pay for this is that it tells them the alarm works and you use it. People are more often than not at home when burgled. 3. Cameras. I have CCTV cameras, but I am very skeptical of their worth. The reason for this is that most burglaries occur when it is dark and that you cannot identify people in the dark on a camera. Similarly all it requires is putting on a big hood to cover your face. I have them so that I can monitor what is going on around the house and for a bit of a deterrent, but I consider other things much better security. I think a Ring type doorbell camera is probably better than CCTV as a lot of people will try your front door to see if anyone is home and to see if it is left open. 4. Don't be overly flash with easy to steal stuff. Much as this smacks of victim blaming. Putting loads of expensive stuff on display is very tempting. Again the evidence you posted shows that burglars look at risk/reward. What do most people have of value in their house that could be easily stolen nowadays. TVs have collapsed in value. Maybe laptops. Jewellery, watches, cash etc are much higher value small items. If you show off these things it increases the chance of being targeted. Similarly if you have an expensive car, put it in the garage. Why would you break in to a house to steal a car when you don't know if it is even there. You car is likely worth multiple times anythignthat could be stolen from in the house. In smart many kinds of physical security cost next to nothing to massively reduce your chances of being broken into. Not flashing your wad of cash and wearing your Rolex everywhere would also help, but is probably not relevant to most people. After this cameras and alarms are more expensive with less incremental improvement, but the combination of multiple approaches will likely make you safer. To me an alarm is relatively cheap compared to the hassle and distress of being burgled. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToughButterCup Posted October 29, 2021 Share Posted October 29, 2021 Our son and daughter in law, both coppers say : keep it simple. A good insurance policy and built-in security (not add ons) is very cost effective. Any house, no matter how secure will always be beaten by determined thieves. Its easy and cheap to keep casual crooks at bay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteamyTea Posted October 29, 2021 Share Posted October 29, 2021 I don't think smackheads really care about getting caught, they are just after easy to lift and sell stuff. And cars. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToughButterCup Posted October 29, 2021 Share Posted October 29, 2021 16 minutes ago, SteamyTea said: I don't think smackheads really care about getting caught, they are just after easy to lift and sell stuff. And cars. Exactly right. Protect against that most common of crimes and you filter a significant of aggro out of your life. Determined thieves will always... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyT Posted October 29, 2021 Share Posted October 29, 2021 I upgrade external hinges/ locks with longer screws and ensure frames are secure from kicking in doors. Fit pir lights to illuminate areas, also helps when scanning cctv at multiple speed as you see light activation and stop. have dusk/dawn lights at from door. keep ladders/garden tools locked up and out of site. I have a couple of cameras covering the drive and front door, just to see if any issues arise helpful when queries arise regarding deliveries. intruder alarm professional installed, local company with bell boxes on front, side and garage elevation. I hide the remote control when info on holiday so the bast&&ds may steal my tv but I have the remote - yes I know you get all in one remotes but small victories. Small and discrete dog roaming free sign on front gate and rear fence. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferdinand Posted October 29, 2021 Share Posted October 29, 2021 On locks, make sure the Eurolocks are anti-snap anti-bump. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteamyTea Posted October 29, 2021 Share Posted October 29, 2021 16 minutes ago, Ferdinand said: On locks Make sure that if you have a safe, your sister does not loose the number/key, just in case your mother looses the ability to communicate. Think I will be using and angle grinder a lot this weekend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferdinand Posted October 29, 2021 Share Posted October 29, 2021 18 minutes ago, SteamyTea said: Make sure that if you have a safe, your sister does not loose the number/key, just in case your mother looses the ability to communicate. Think I will be using and angle grinder a lot this weekend. And *&^%$ postboxes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Punter Posted October 29, 2021 Share Posted October 29, 2021 When our neighbour got locked out of the house, the only way to gain entry was to smash a triple glazed window at the back of the house. It took a fair few smacks to break through. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteamyTea Posted October 29, 2021 Share Posted October 29, 2021 7 minutes ago, Mr Punter said: When our neighbour got locked out of the house, the only way to gain entry was to smash a triple glazed window at the back of the house. It took a fair few smacks to break through. Cheaper than what my drunk neighbour did. He crowbarred the back door. Cost him a new door, glass and frame. I waited a few days and then told him that the glass for the window next to the door only cost me 16 quid to replace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jack Posted October 29, 2021 Share Posted October 29, 2021 14 hours ago, jayc89 said: They seemed to be targeting power tools, for some reason. Reasonable value, hard to trace (most people won't have bothered recording serial numbers etc like they might have for expensive stuff indoors), a ready market, and a lot lower chance of getting noticed breaking into a shed than a house when people are at home. Couple of anecdotes: my inlaws were broken into a couple of years ago while they were away for the weekend. Thieves used garden furniture to climb onto their bedroom balcony, and used a small axe they'd grabbed from the shed to pry open a window. The alarm went off, but they quickly went through the house, grabbed jewellery, and then smashed their way out of the french doors downstairs (not noticing that the key was in the lock and they could have just opened it!) They left credit cards, a couple of Apple laptops - I'm sure the only thing they'd have taken other than jewellery was cash. Not much the inlaws could have done to stop this sort of break-in, although they hadn't deadlocked their upstairs windows which did make it easier for the burglars to get in. Another: friends of ours woke up a few nights ago to find someone undertaking a relay attack on their car. They knocked on the window and the thieves jumped in their car and ran away. There have apparently been a few of these attacks in our area recently. Keeping your fob in a Faraday pouch or box isn't a bad precaution, especially if you have one of the cars that seems to be targeted by this attack. Oh, and a friend of mine had his car stolen a few months ago when he accidentally left the back door unlocked overnight. Someone came in, grabbed the car keys, and drove it off their driveway. Bit of a shock the next morning! As well as general security, one thing to think about is sentimental objects. In my inlaws' case, for example, they lost a watch and an old wedding ring that were of great sentimental value, but wouldn't have generated much cash for a the thieves. If you have something sentimental, keep it somewhere properly hidden and/or secured. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
epsilonGreedy Posted October 29, 2021 Share Posted October 29, 2021 10 minutes ago, jack said: to find someone undertaking a relay attack on their car. Not heard of that before. After some Googling it is an exploit of a convenience technology developed for those who expect their car to unlock automatically as they approach their car. I think these ingenious criminals should be offered senior roles to sort out public sector IT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jack Posted October 29, 2021 Share Posted October 29, 2021 3 minutes ago, epsilonGreedy said: Not heard of that before. After some Googling it is an exploit of a convenience technology developed for those who expect their car to unlock automatically as they approach their car. It's been going for a while. I remember hearing that a large number of Range Rovers in and around London were nicked over a short period several years ago when the technology first became available. These recent events are the first I've ever heard of it happening to anyone I know though. Faraday pouches cost very little, so might be worthwhile if you have the sort of car that's being targeted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carrerahill Posted October 29, 2021 Share Posted October 29, 2021 15 hours ago, Adsibob said: Was having a debate with a family member about security alarms. Despite having witnessed a burglary across the road from our house shortly after we purchased it, I am still not convinced a burglar alarm is worth it. It’s not just the installation cost, but also the hassle of false alarms and the maintenance cost. Came across this research paper by a group of Academics at respectable English universities which says this: “This article reports some intriguing findings based on data from the Crime Survey for England and Wales (CSEW), which suggest that the addition of burglar alarms may be counter-productive.” As is often the case, the devil is in the detail, and the methodology used in the article does have a couple of flaws (which it recognises). Worth a read: https://link.springer.com/article/10.1057/cpcs.2014.17 See when it comes to reports like this, the statistics are not based on certainty's because they don't take into consideration mental health, desperation, drug and alcohol abuse all which are certainly going to be part of the cause and effect of a break in. Statistically lets say I would not nudge/push another car on the road to get past, however, change my situation and I may. Ill child on board, trying to get to hospital, life or death, you bet I would not be driving like I was going for Sunday lunch. That statistic has not taken into consideration desperation. Many people will break in for the same reason. So depending on the mental state of the criminal will depend if an alarm is going to put them off or not. I don't like crime stats, I also don't agree with many of them because police forces alter the conditions to make them look better. Police Scotland several years ago made a statement that, "Reported crime had fallen" and how great they were and how well they had done. All I read was that reports of crime had fallen not the actual crimes! I bought an alarm on Wednesday for a friend of mine to install in their garage, £107 delivered for a Texecom control panel, remote keypad, PIR, door contacts, battery and premium bell box. I said I would sort it for them as I know how and have installed several alarms for myself over the years. Maintenance is only a way of alarm companies making money and they are in cahoots with the insurance companies that technically an insurance company may only accept a professionally installed & maintained alarm, we all know that alarms don't need maintained. Maybe change the battery every 6-8 years or when it warns you the battery is low. If you don't want a proper alarm even a bellbox with a flashing LED (decoy ones look too fake). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adsibob Posted October 29, 2021 Author Share Posted October 29, 2021 All interesting points, thank you. We have top locks on all our doors and PAS24 on all ground floor doors/windows (and all upstairs windows are lockable), so I'm fairly happy we have a reasonable structure to start with. No flat roofs at ground level to make accessing the upper floors' windows particularly easy. We will have plenty of security lights as well. As for a garage, our property doesn't have one (or space for one). So I think the missing ingredient is how to secure the car that's in the driveway and the keys when in the house - mayb'e I'll line the key cupboard with something to make it into a faraday cage. @AliG you mentioned bollards, is this what you meant: https://bisonsecurityposts.co.uk/product/round-steel-telescopic-security-post-500mm/?attribute_pa_colour=yellow-ral-1023&attribute_pa_keyed=to-differ&gclid=Cj0KCQjwt-6LBhDlARIsAIPRQcLIPbOAVI7gVn3LhpF2ZlMXteBi05HPnV3uizSs0dEArOGZOLNFyB4aAvBbEALw_wcB ? If so, I think I would need two, plus the cost of fixing it, although hopefully given we are about to redo our driveway, that won't be too much. The alternative to bollards is a a steering wheel lock, which only costs £60 from Halfords (e.g. this one) but I never really understood how these work. Is it just that the post attached to the streering wheel prevents the wheel from turning without bashing the post into the windscreen? If so, what's to stop a burglar breaking the windscreen and then replacing that after he's nicked the car and managed to angle grind the steering wheel lock off in the privacy of his own workshop/garage? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
epsilonGreedy Posted October 29, 2021 Share Posted October 29, 2021 36 minutes ago, jack said: These recent events are the first I've ever heard of it happening to anyone I know though. Faraday pouches cost very little, so might be worthwhile if you have the sort of car that's being targeted. My car is too low-tech to benefit, however I like the idea of a Faraday pouche because I understand we are overdue for the next Carrington Event. Following a mega solar flare I assume the last working iphone in Lincolnshire would be quite valuable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteamyTea Posted October 29, 2021 Share Posted October 29, 2021 51 minutes ago, epsilonGreedy said: last working iphone in Lincolnshire would be quite valuable. As it is an iPhone the battery will be flat. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SimonD Posted October 29, 2021 Share Posted October 29, 2021 1 hour ago, Adsibob said: If so, what's to stop a burglar breaking the windscreen and then replacing that after he's nicked the car and managed to angle grind the steering wheel lock off in the privacy of his own workshop/garage? He/she would have to chop off their legs and remove the drivers seat when turning. Depending on how you fit the lock, they might even have to take out the door. Check the product carefully as some of these can be opened easily by breaking the lock mechanism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jack Posted October 29, 2021 Share Posted October 29, 2021 2 hours ago, Adsibob said: The alternative to bollards is a a steering wheel lock, which only costs £60 from Halfords (e.g. this one) but I never really understood how these work. Is it just that the post attached to the streering wheel prevents the wheel from turning without bashing the post into the windscreen? If so, what's to stop a burglar breaking the windscreen and then replacing that after he's nicked the car and managed to angle grind the steering wheel lock off in the privacy of his own workshop/garage? I don't know if it's still the case, but it used to be the case that steering wheels were generally made of less stern stuff than steering locks. In many cases you could use bolt cutters to snip through the wheel, then bend it enough that you could slip the steering lock off. Bend it back and off you drive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adsibob Posted October 29, 2021 Author Share Posted October 29, 2021 8 hours ago, SimonD said: He/she would have to chop off their legs and remove the drivers seat when turning. Depending on how you fit the lock, they might even have to take out the door. Check the product carefully as some of these can be opened easily by breaking the lock mechanism. Yea, I think my brain must have completely checked out when I wrote that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AliG Posted October 30, 2021 Share Posted October 30, 2021 18 hours ago, Adsibob said: All interesting points, thank you. We have top locks on all our doors and PAS24 on all ground floor doors/windows (and all upstairs windows are lockable), so I'm fairly happy we have a reasonable structure to start with. No flat roofs at ground level to make accessing the upper floors' windows particularly easy. We will have plenty of security lights as well. As for a garage, our property doesn't have one (or space for one). So I think the missing ingredient is how to secure the car that's in the driveway and the keys when in the house - mayb'e I'll line the key cupboard with something to make it into a faraday cage. @AliG you mentioned bollards, is this what you meant: https://bisonsecurityposts.co.uk/product/round-steel-telescopic-security-post-500mm/?attribute_pa_colour=yellow-ral-1023&attribute_pa_keyed=to-differ&gclid=Cj0KCQjwt-6LBhDlARIsAIPRQcLIPbOAVI7gVn3LhpF2ZlMXteBi05HPnV3uizSs0dEArOGZOLNFyB4aAvBbEALw_wcB ? If so, I think I would need two, plus the cost of fixing it, although hopefully given we are about to redo our driveway, that won't be too much. The alternative to bollards is a a steering wheel lock, which only costs £60 from Halfords (e.g. this one) but I never really understood how these work. Is it just that the post attached to the streering wheel prevents the wheel from turning without bashing the post into the windscreen? If so, what's to stop a burglar breaking the windscreen and then replacing that after he's nicked the car and managed to angle grind the steering wheel lock off in the privacy of his own workshop/garage? Yes this is what I was talking about, as I understand it steering locks are not that secure. Again these are a nice visual deterrent. Why not move on to an easier target. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nickfromwales Posted October 30, 2021 Share Posted October 30, 2021 Problem is, they know where the key for the steering lock will be, on your car keys , so they get those by burglary anyhoo. Therefore only a deterrent to the opportunistic thief. Bollards are a good choice, as long as they’re not cheap bits of crap that they’ll know they can simply knock over with your car. Thieves can readily identify popular security products and gauge their resilience / robustness etc in the wink of an eye. Good ( well placed and very bright ) security lighting, and some basic disciplines re where keys are kept at night / choice of door locks / don’t have a letterbox in the house door etc are all little 5 and 10%’s of additional obstacles which may make the scrotes move on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SimonD Posted October 30, 2021 Share Posted October 30, 2021 1 hour ago, Nickfromwales said: Problem is, they know where the key for the steering lock will be, on your car keys , so they get those by burglary anyhoo. Therefore only a deterrent to the opportunistic thief. Bollards are a good choice, as long as they’re not cheap bits of crap that they’ll know they can simply knock over with your car. Thieves can readily identify popular security products and gauge their resilience / robustness etc in the wink of an eye. Good ( well placed and very bright ) security lighting, and some basic disciplines re where keys are kept at night / choice of door locks / don’t have a letterbox in the house door etc are all little 5 and 10%’s of additional obstacles which may make the scrotes move on. Once upon a time I remember catching a tv series, maybe on BBC2 or something, where they had an ex-burglar actually break into people's houses and then show them how to secure the place. I was always amazed by the simple and cheap steps he would suggest. One of these was a gate across the driveway - not anything highly secure, just any old gate, and to keep it shut. Didn't even need to be locked. He basically explained exactly the same thing, that any scrote looking to burgle somewhere will tot up a list of annoyances which amount to inconvenience and risk and walk away to the next easier picking. The other side to security is not to make it so annoying and cumbersome to yourself that you then can't be bothered. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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